Last edited:
Too many water additions?
- Thread starter ABI Brewery
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Gnomebrewer
Well-Known Member
Yes, it's possible to have too much of a salt(s) added to water.
What style of beer is this for? Are you using RO water?
What style of beer is this for? Are you using RO water?
OP
OP
I’m going for a session IPA , and tap water
Gameface
Well-Known Member
Do you know the mineral content of your tap water? Hard to adjust your water if you don't know what you're adjusting.
OP
OP
I do, I just didn’t post it here yet, I have it on my computer at work so I’ll attach it tomorrow
OP
OP
Found it, this is what I’m starting with
Gnomebrewer
Well-Known Member
So it looks like the water profile in your OP doesn't include what's already in your water?
I wouldn't add any Magnesium salts, as you've already got 18ppm Mg. Also, you're at nearly 100ppm Bicarbonate, which is significant. Don't add the baking soda that you have in the OP. That leaves you with raising the Chloride from 12ppm to 50ppm and Sulphate from 7ppm to 150ppm using Calcium chloride and Gypsum.
1g per gallon of Calcium chloride (dihydrate) adds 72ppm Calcium and 127ppm chloride.
1g per gallon of Gypsum adds 61.5ppm Calcium and 147.4ppm sulphate.
Putting in the chloride first, we need to add 38ppm, which is 38/127= 0.3g/gallon. This also raises the Calcium from 18ppm (source water) to 18+0.3x72 = about 40ppm.
Adding gypsum, we 143/147.4 = close enough to 1g/gallon. This also raises the Calcium from 40ppm to about 100ppm, which is a bit higher than your target but, IMO, quite acceptable.
So your finishing water (with 0.3g/gallon Calcium chloride and 1g/gallon gypsum) is:
Calcium 100ppm
Sulphate 150ppm
Chloride 50ppm
And all others as they were in your source water.
Don't forget to also add acid to counter the alkalinity of the water as well as (potentially) the grains. Post your recipe if you need help.
I wouldn't add any Magnesium salts, as you've already got 18ppm Mg. Also, you're at nearly 100ppm Bicarbonate, which is significant. Don't add the baking soda that you have in the OP. That leaves you with raising the Chloride from 12ppm to 50ppm and Sulphate from 7ppm to 150ppm using Calcium chloride and Gypsum.
1g per gallon of Calcium chloride (dihydrate) adds 72ppm Calcium and 127ppm chloride.
1g per gallon of Gypsum adds 61.5ppm Calcium and 147.4ppm sulphate.
Putting in the chloride first, we need to add 38ppm, which is 38/127= 0.3g/gallon. This also raises the Calcium from 18ppm (source water) to 18+0.3x72 = about 40ppm.
Adding gypsum, we 143/147.4 = close enough to 1g/gallon. This also raises the Calcium from 40ppm to about 100ppm, which is a bit higher than your target but, IMO, quite acceptable.
So your finishing water (with 0.3g/gallon Calcium chloride and 1g/gallon gypsum) is:
Calcium 100ppm
Sulphate 150ppm
Chloride 50ppm
And all others as they were in your source water.
Don't forget to also add acid to counter the alkalinity of the water as well as (potentially) the grains. Post your recipe if you need help.
OP
OP
A 10 gallon recipe that is 21 lbs 2-row and 1lb carmel 40 and .75 lb carmel 60, I had also figured in 6g Tartaric acid that will bring ph to 5.4
That is a pretty good water supply. The alkalinity level is well suited for brewing since it isn't too high and can easily be neutralized for brewing paler beers. As mentioned, Mg salts should probably be avoided since that level is near the upper end.
OP
OP
Not to sound redundant but I should stick with the gypsum and calcium chloride and then the acid addition and give that a shot, also all of these additions will be in the mash water, but I also do a recirculation mash does that matter?
Gnomebrewer
Well-Known Member
I've never heard of anyone using Tartaric acid for beer, it's normally for wine. It will work for pH adjustment, but may have a strong impact on beer flavour. I'm not sure.
Gnomebrewer
Well-Known Member
That grain bill in distilled water will fall somewhere near 5.4 (it depends on the particular grain and batch, but it should be close), meaning you only have to counter the acid in your water.
Also, I realised your Sulphate is reported as SO4-S at 7ppm, which actually means you have 21ppm Sulphate in your water, so a bit less gypsum is needed - 0.9g/gallon.
Add your salts (0.3g/gallon Calcium chloride and 0.9g/gallon Gypsum) to your ENTIRE brewing water (not just the mash). Acidify your your mash water with 0.3mL/gallon of 85% phosphoric or 0.38mL/gallon of 88% lactic acid. Acidify your sparge water with 0.4mL/gallon of 85% phosphoric or 0.5mL/gallon of lactic acid. Your mash needs a bit less acid than the sparge because the salt additions are helping to lower the pH.
OP
OP
My bad on the Tartaric acid, ill get some lactic acid coming, if that's the norm for a session IPA, but Im new to treating the water so I have stupid or redundant questions I apologize, alos I have a full volume recirculation system.
Also, I am trying to get good baseline for my water, my next brew will be one that I likely wont do again just because its the grains that I have left over and mixed up, but like I said I am new to this water chemistry game and am trying to wrap my head around what goes where and why, no I haven't read Palmers book on water..................yet.
Also, I am trying to get good baseline for my water, my next brew will be one that I likely wont do again just because its the grains that I have left over and mixed up, but like I said I am new to this water chemistry game and am trying to wrap my head around what goes where and why, no I haven't read Palmers book on water..................yet.
Gnomebrewer
Well-Known Member
Phosphoric and lactic are the two most common acids for pH adjustment.
For full volume, just use the mash water acid addition from above.
Try Brun Water (the supporters version is better than the free one). It's an excel spreadsheet that helps you work out salt and acid additions to target specific pH. You can save each water profile.
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/
OP
OP
Great, thank you, I tried to decide between brewers friend and brun water and went with brewers friend, but I think there might be a learning curve to using the application, but seems good in the little time that I have used it.............cheers
Gnomebrewer
Well-Known Member
Both are good and both will have learning involved.
Does water really make that much of a difference? I keep seeing stuff about ph and adding acid and whatnot. If your water taste fine then you should be good right? I use bottled spring water or use water from my fridge that has a filter . I should have paid more attention to chemistry in school lol.
Obviously others have different experiences, but personally rarely see a need for more than an acid of choice (mine is lactic or phosphoric) calcium chloride, calcium sulphate and sodium carbonate in the water treatment toolkit. rA down <10ppm for extra pales, <30ppm for more malt forward ones, <60ppm for brown ales, bitters, ones where the malt bill supports the pH shift, increase it for dark beers. Use salts to get calcium up over 100ppm-150ppm, ratios of sulphate to chloride to suit taste. The topic initially looks very complex (and is), but once you get working with only the bits that are applicable the math can be done on a bit of scrap paper while hanging off a ladder.
Did spend some time exploring phosphate as a limiting factor for calcium solubility in the mash and buffering with magnesium and sodium salts to carry triphosphate compounds across into the boil where increased calcium levels can create a more aggressive pH drop in the boil, but yeah turns out you just acidify on pack and you don't need all those other random salts.
Did spend some time exploring phosphate as a limiting factor for calcium solubility in the mash and buffering with magnesium and sodium salts to carry triphosphate compounds across into the boil where increased calcium levels can create a more aggressive pH drop in the boil, but yeah turns out you just acidify on pack and you don't need all those other random salts.
Similar threads
