Tons of sulfur??

[MattTheBrewer]

Ive been brewing beer for years but this year me and my parents thought it would be a good idea to make some cider from their trees. everything went great. On the 16th of october we got 5 gallons of cider from the apples used Camden tablets per the directions and let it sit for 24 hours then pitched the yeast (Wyeast cider/sake or something like that.) Fermentation started on the 18th of october and everything went great. we went to secondary fermentation on the 1st of november and added pectin enzymes a week later(miscomunication with the brew shop as to when to add the enzymes) ether way we just tried our first glass today 24th of december and man does it have some sulfur. What has caused this and how if any way can we save these 5 beautiful gallons of cider?

 

[as_saturn_ascends]

Sounds like you used too many Campden tablets. How many did you use. The proper ratio is 1 tab per gallon of must. I only sometimes use Campden tabs at the start. I never end with them.

My advice would be to NOT use anymore tabs. Boil some water and add it. You will lose alcohol content, but the sulfur might go away. Depends on how many tablets you used.

 

[CampFireWine]

This was on a few threads down.

You are getting confused between H2S ans SO2. The rotten smell is Hydrogen Silfide H2S which can be a product of the fermentation when the yeast are stressed by lack of nutrient or other conditions.
SO2 is completely unrelated and used as an preservative and anti-oxidant. The primary fermentation process leads to most SO2 being bound to acetaldehyde, which is a natural product of fermentation. This leaves the SO2 inactive, and it won't stop the fermentation finishing. Your yeast may have stopped fermenting due to stress, or maybe there are non-fermentables in your recipe. The H2S smell may leave with time but is probably not related to the apricots.

 

[postban]

... ether way we just tried our first glass today 24th of december and man does it have some sulfur. What has caused this and how if any way can we save these 5 beautiful gallons of cider?

You can try degassing it as is done in wine. I find cider holds a lot of CO2 and some off flavors until I do this.

You can make a free wine whip out of a plastic clothes hanger, just cut it and heat bend a bit till similar looking. I did and it works the same.

 

[MattTheBrewer]

I have only used 5 Camden tablets, i crushed them and added them to the apple cider right after we finished collecting all the juice, waited 24 hours then pitched the yeast. The fermentation started a little slow but after another 24 hours it was very vigorous. we also added yeast nutrients, the fermentation seemed flawless and the product right now is as clear as can be, there is absolutely no sediment in suspension. I havent gotten another hydrometer reading the first reading was 1.050, besides the cider being overly eggy smelling and taisting, it is slightly dry and has a tart finish. I cant see there being anything wrong with the fermentation, and fermentation has been finished for at least a month.

I might have to try this degassing method but it has a lot of work to get rid of all of this sulfur, i have also read about aerating the cider. the glass we poured and did not finish, we tried pouring it back and forth from one glass to another to aerate it, it did diminish the smell and taste of eggs some but it was a lot of swishing back and forth, and to do this method with 5 gallons would be laborious if possible at all. What part of the aeration helps get rid of the sulfur smell, eg. is it the nitrogen, carbon dioxide or the oxygen in the air that pulls the smell out. i have a large oxygen tank but i dont want to bubble that through if it is actually the nitrogen that will pull the smell out.

 

[CampFireWine]

I am going out on a limb here Matt because it seems like you have done every thing right. I am wondering if the apples you used may have been too alkaline for the proper release of the campden since it is ph dependent. Now it is fermenting and making CO2 gas and becoming more acidic, maybe it is now finally releasing the SO2 gas. I don't know it it can technically work like that but it was a thought. The juice I use has acid added to it already for ph adjustment and true cider apples are naturally acidic. Maybe? I don't know. Maybe somebody might know more about it then I do.

If it is, then just rack it, degas it like in the video and it should be fine.

 

[MattTheBrewer]

i will have to try this degassing. i forgot to add that i did put in about 2 tablespoons of an acid blend to the juice before the camden tablets...

 

[as_saturn_ascends]

You definitely dont want to oxygenate the 5 gallons. Just degass it. Don't get oxygen into your wine or you will oxidize it. The only time you want to let air into it is when you are drinking it.... or sometimes prior to fermentation.

 

[MattTheBrewer]

exactly, why i wanted to make sure to not just blast it with O2.

 

[CvilleKevin]

Sulfur is caused by stressed yeast and the stress can be due to a number of factors, usually temps too warm or presence of sulfite. Some yeasts will kick out a fair amount of sulfur no matter the condition. It almost always dissipates in a few months

 

[MattTheBrewer]

Ok. So degas--> then age, should hopefully make that egg flavor dissapear. We planned on letting it age for a while longer but wanted to test it out and it just blew our minds how eggy it was, i wanted to find out if i could do something about it. Thanks guys.

 

[becon776]

I am having the same problem... one of my carboys has an off smell... sulphurous bad at first. Then added yeast nutrient then immediately changed the off.gas too sweet smelling appley .. then slowly it creeped back. Now it is simply an "off smell" the funny thing is that the other carboy has been perfect. They were both treated exactly the same at exactly the same time. The only things I can think iof is that either a wild yeast got control (I didn't add camden tabs as cider is pasteurized; supposedly hours before purchase.) Or I got the ass end of the cider tank. The mill had said when I purhased that the late season cider might ciome out different.

 

[gregbathurst]

This is a biological process so some variation is normal. Do you rehydrate your yeast in warm water before pitching?

 

[MattTheBrewer]

I used the Wyeast "smack pack" or whatever you want to call it. The yeast packet was taken from the fridge and let sit up against the carboy with the cider in it for several hours to get to the same temp, it was the smacked and let sit untill in was a couple times its origanal size then pitched...

 

[CampFireWine]

I found this in passing

Nearly 100 volatile sulfur containing compounds have been found in wine. Fewer than ten of these are usually associated with sulfur aroma defects. Sensory thresholds for the most common problematic volatile sulfur compounds in wine are listed in Table 1.

Table 1 - Reported Sensory Thresholds for Sulfide Compounds
compound
structure
sensory description
range (ppb)

hydrogen sulfide
H2S
rotten egg, sewage-like
0.9 - 1.5

ethyl mercaptan
CH3CH2SH
burnt match, sulfidy, earthy
1.1 - 1.8

methyl mercaptan
CH3SH
rotten cabbage, burnt rubber
1.5

diethyl sulfide
CH3CH2SCH2CH3
rubbery
0.9 - 1.3

dimethyl sulfide
CH3SCH3
canned corn, cooked cabbage, asparagus, vegetal
17 - 25

diethyl disulfide
CH3CH2SSCH2CH3
garlic, burnt rubber
3.6 - 4.3

dimethyl disulfide
CH3SSCH3
vegetal, cabbage, onion-like at high levels
9.8 - 10.2


Prevention and Treatment
The initial prevention of H2S formation during fermentation is the most important part of a control strategy for volatile sulfur compounds in wine. Preventive measures that reduce formation of H2S before and during fermentation are far more likely to be successful than treatment programs for stinky wines. Early treatment of wines containing H2S is desirable to minimize and avoid the formation of mercaptans and other complex sulfides more resistant to treatment.

Possible Causes of Sulfide Problems in Wine
•elemental residues from vineyard spray programs
•high turbidity
•yeast strains
•must nitrogen deficiencies
•other nutritional deficiencies
•high fermentation temperatures
•fermentor size and shape
•inadequate aeration during fermentation
•gross lees contact and extended lees contact

http://www.etslabs.com/display.aspx?catid=48,50,66&pageid=94

 

[centralpabrewer]

Next time you do this, skip the camden entirely. Take your fresh pressed cider, add the pectic enzyme, maybe even balance the acid if want. Add a little yeast nutrient. Let this sit for 24 hours at room temp. Then pitch your yeast, I use fermentis S04, and ferment at 50-55 degrees. This low temp keeps away the funky flavors. Let it ferment to completion, 7-10 days, rack into a secondary and let clear. Prime if you want, and bottle. Very tasty

 

[MattTheBrewer]

I really dont know what happened. I was thinking the temps may have been too low, the fermentation was around 60-65 then less later on in my parents basement.

Oh well, we degassed it and we are just going to have to let it try to age this stuff out but it smells pretty grim.

 

[becon776]

my stuff changed, it's now smell like old alcohol much like a beer would smell after sitting out for a night. After the nutrient additions it smelled nice and fruity with only a hint of sulfur smell... today is one month in primary and it's still not completely done yet. I also had a lower ferment temp.

 

[CidahMastah]

Matt - A bit late on this but.... I agree - I think you need to let your cider rest for several months. Degassing could help, but I suspect that you will have to wait these flavors out. Sulfur is a common after stink of fermentation. As mentioned previously, it also could mean too high kmeta.

Montrachet is a sulfur stinker, but you used wyeast.

 

[CidahMastah]

becon776 - sounds like you might have mousiness in your cider. Barnyard ish smell?

just saw your second post. I am thinking you need to wait it out. Cider is a wine, at 1 month old cider is a baby and will stink, taste green, etc. I would recc aging at least 3 months. Preference to 6+, but that is me