Timing for each stage?

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snarf7

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Are there some basic guidelines to how long you should be putting into each stage?

Primary Fermentation
Secondary Fermentation
Dry Hopping
Bottling/Conditioning

I realize that different types of brew have different requirements, for example a barleywine takes much longer than an ale. But are there general guidelines for each type? Reading through these forums is a wealth of info but with some stuff I'm finding if you ask 10 people you'll get 11 different answers! I'm sure there's a good reason for that but as a newbie to this I'm seeking a little more structure while I learn the craft, any advice would be welcome
 
Primary fermentation = 3 weeks
Secondary fermentation = none unless adding fruit or something else then primary gets cut down to do the secondary for probably 1 week or so
Dry hopping = Depends on the recipe. Anyway from a few days to a week
Bottle/Conditioning = If bottle priming, I wait at least 1-2 weeks but sometimes it takes longer to fully carb. Outside of that, I let it condition until it tastes good.
 
What?

That's to specific.. For instance I can do grain to glass in five to seven days.. that's shorter than the above mentioned entire "primary" fermentation.

And another beer is carbed up in 3-4 days in the bottle..

As you see there's different approaches/timings.

Higher ABV usually needs longer time in all the stages, light beers the opposite. It's not down to type, it's about how you like to do it to get what you want.
 
I'm finding if you ask 10 people you'll get 11 different answers! I'm sure there's a good reason for that but as a newbie to this I'm seeking a little more structure while I learn the craft, any advice would be welcome
I'm sure this thread will be no different.

Practice, use gravity readings as a guide, take copious notes, and develop a process that works for you.
 
What?

That's to specific.. For instance I can do grain to glass in five to seven days.. that's shorter than the above mentioned entire "primary" fermentation.

And another beer is carbed up in 3-4 days in the bottle..

As you see there's different approaches/timings.

Higher ABV usually needs longer time in all the stages, light beers the opposite. It's not down to type, it's about how you like to do it to get what you want.

I understand there are tons of different variables involved, but do you appreciate how confusing it is when trying to learn something from the ground up when you're told "somewhere between 5 days and a month"? That's just too vague a starting point. That's why in my question I made certain to ask for GENERAL guidelines, I'm not seeking a definitive, set in stone set of 10 commandments or anything, I recognize that is impossible...but rather I'm looking for a good baseline to learn from.

I'll give you an example based off what I've read on these forums recently. In general Hefeweizens seem to take a little less time. So it might be something like this:

Primary: 7-14 days
Secondary: None
Bottling: 2 weeks min
Adjustments: If using honey, let it stay in primary a little longer

That doesn't mean there aren't a ton of variables that can throw this all to hell, but as a baseline to start with it holds a lot of value for a new homebrewer.
 
I understand there are tons of different variables involved, but do you appreciate how confusing it is when trying to learn something from the ground up when you're told "somewhere between 5 days and a month"? That's just too vague a starting point. That's why in my question I made certain to ask for GENERAL guidelines, I'm not seeking a definitive, set in stone set of 10 commandments or anything, I recognize that is impossible...but rather I'm looking for a good baseline to learn from.

I'll give you an example based off what I've read on these forums recently. In general Hefeweizens seem to take a little less time. So it might be something like this:

Primary: 7-14 days
Secondary: None
Bottling: 2 weeks min
Adjustments: If using honey, let it stay in primary a little longer

That doesn't mean there aren't a ton of variables that can throw this all to hell, but as a baseline to start with it holds a lot of value for a new homebrewer.

Like i said in my last paragraph.. It's how you like to do things, and the general rule of ABV/time. The general guidelines can also be pretty vague. It depends on who answers your thread. You'll find a whole lot of different answers. But usually one thing that pops up (except for hoppy beers) are "The last bottle was the best".

For instance I'd say (because that's how I do it) that hefes are 6-8 days primary, and at least three weeks in the bottle..
See? That's just one beer style, and we both are talking in "general", but the answer is different. I'm not trying to be difficult, but everything is pretty vague when it comes to this topc.
 
Fro the sake of simplification:

2 weeks primary (your dry hopping is not it's own time period, it can happen during this time)
No Secondary
2 weeks bottle conditioning.
 
Primary fermentation = 3 weeks
Secondary fermentation = none unless adding fruit or something else then primary gets cut down to do the secondary for probably 1 week or so
Dry hopping = Depends on the recipe. Anyway from a few days to a week
Bottle/Conditioning = If bottle priming, I wait at least 1-2 weeks but sometimes it takes longer to fully carb. Outside of that, I let it condition until it tastes good.

This looks like my typical brewing schedule.
 
I understand there are tons of different variables involved, but do you appreciate how confusing it is when trying to learn something from the ground up when you're told "somewhere between 5 days and a month"? That's just too vague a starting point. That's why in my question I made certain to ask for GENERAL guidelines, I'm not seeking a definitive, set in stone set of 10 commandments or anything, I recognize that is impossible...but rather I'm looking for a good baseline to learn from.

I'll give you an example based off what I've read on these forums recently. In general Hefeweizens seem to take a little less time. So it might be something like this:

Primary: 7-14 days
Secondary: None
Bottling: 2 weeks min
Adjustments: If using honey, let it stay in primary a little longer

That doesn't mean there aren't a ton of variables that can throw this all to hell, but as a baseline to start with it holds a lot of value for a new homebrewer.

Yep, as you're seeing there are many ways to do it. You probably will just need to take note of all the responses and develop some sort of general guideline for yourself. As you brew you'll fine tune it though and develop a system that works best for you. 5 days grain to glass seems incredibly short. Even if you can produce beer that quickly I can't imagine it's the best quality beer you could be making. Hardly any conditioning/rest period in fermentation and really short burst carb period which sometimes gives it a harsh carbonic bite at first. Anyways, my timeline is something like this :

Primary: Usually somewhere around 2.5 weeks. They say to take hydrometer readings a few days in a row, but I really hate opening my fermenter and messing with the beer because of oxygen exposure so I've just been letting the batches go 2-3 weeks and only taking one reading when I bottle/keg.
Secondary: None
Bottling: My IPAs usually are carbed up after about a week, and I'll start drinking. The flavor will sometimes improve a bit from week 1-2 in bottle. My last IPA my wife didn't like at first, but after trying again after another 4-5 days in bottle she did like it. When I keg I just hook it up to CO2 and let it sit at serving pressure for a week. No burst carbing
 
Someone like @Smellyglove can do grain-to-glass in 7 days, but you have to give him some props. He's a very experienced brewer, and has the process down.

I just completed my 62nd batch, but I remember what it was like to be a newbie at this, so let me just say these few things, some of which supports the above:

1. Secondaries aren't necessary unless you're doing something weird like adding fruit or maybe a weird infusion or something. You don't need it, and it just increases the chances for oxidation and contamination. Avoid.

How long in primary? As I approach the end of fermentation, for an ale, I'll bump the temp up to 71f for a couple days, then down again to the main temp (typically 64-67). I'll let it sit on the yeast cake for a while; I've found it helps the beer mature and lose its greenness. But I have kegged beers in 7 days (wanted to clear the fermenter for another batch), and after a little while to condition, they've been great.

So anywhere from 7 days to 28, though I don't want to go longer than that as an extended time in primary can result in off flavors. But more typically, 7-14 days.

2. Beer brewing is a pretty resilient process; you have to work hard to screw things up so long as you follow good sanitation practices and are close to what the recipe says to do. Small alterations may change what the final outcome is, but only on the margins; you'll still get beer. And likely good beer.

3. As an example of the above, with my 61st batch, I was working with new equipment, and as a result, my mash temp was 135, not the 152 I was looking for (lesson learned, process issue fixed). After indulging in a brief moment of panic, I fixed it: I added some boiling water to bring up the temp, added some more crushed grain to address the thinner mash, mashed for a while longer than usual, and guess what? I got beer. It's actually really good beer, just not what I was aiming for. I've had several people try it, they like it.

So even if your process variables vary a bit, you'll still be fine. Will it matter if your boil is 65 minutes instead of 60? Nah. Maybe slightly more bitter, but it won't ruin the beer. Or if you add the late addition hops at 13 minutes instead of 15? Nah.

Charlie Papazian's advice so early in the homebrew history is spot on: relax, don't worry, have a home brew (RDWHAHB).
 
Are there some basic guidelines to how long you should be putting into each stage?

Primary Fermentation
Secondary Fermentation
Dry Hopping
Bottling/Conditioning

I realize that different types of brew have different requirements, for example a barleywine takes much longer than an ale. But are there general guidelines for each type? Reading through these forums is a wealth of info but with some stuff I'm finding if you ask 10 people you'll get 11 different answers! I'm sure there's a good reason for that but as a newbie to this I'm seeking a little more structure while I learn the craft, any advice would be welcome
Primary could be done sometimes in a week, but 10-14 days is best.
Secondary not necessary
Dry hop no longer than 5-6 days
Bottling 3 weeks. If budget allows I would switch to kegging.
 
Primary Fermentation:

It is done in as little as 5 days, 7 to 10 is usual I go 14 days to be sure. I most often get lazy about packaging unless my pipeline is low so it is usually longer.

Secondary Fermentation:

I almost never do a secondary. Only when I add something that doesn't go into primary easily.

Dry Hopping:

5-7 days is my usual. Sometimes longer - see Primary.

Bottling/Conditioning:

I find that some beers are carbonated at 2 weeks of approximately 70 degree conditioning. Some take longer. But I say that ALL of my beers have tasted better at 3 weeks or longer. An exception might be a hoppy IPA, I haven't done too many of them, I don't remember when the carbonation on them was just right but I didn't see much loss in taste during the time I drink them - up to a couple of months.

One big dark beer took 6 months for a harsh tone to fade. Once it did, the beer was one of my best.
 
Someone like @Smellyglove can do grain-to-glass in 7 days, but you have to give him some props. He's a very experienced brewer, and has the process down.

Yeah, I gathered as much. Unfortunately that's a side effect of knowledge and experience on the internets, especially on forums such as these: you become incapable of answering the simple questions with simple answers because you know too much. I always likened it to when your 7 year old comes to you with help on his math homework and you start talking advanced calculus to him. He'll appreciate it at 17 when he's actually taking calculus, but at 7? Not so much.


1. Secondaries aren't necessary unless you're doing something weird like adding fruit or maybe a weird infusion or something. You don't need it, and it just increases the chances for oxidation and contamination. Avoid.

That's one of those prime examples of 'ask 10 people, get 11 answers' though isn't it? Some folks seem to swear by it, some not at all. lol
Would it be fair to say that 'necessary' is the operative word here? That it can be a beneifcial technique but that omitting it is never going to ruin your beer, whereas if you do it wrong you definitely run that risk?


How long in primary? As I approach the end of fermentation, for an ale, I'll bump the temp up to 71f for a couple days, then down again to the main temp (typically 64-67). I'll let it sit on the yeast cake for a while; I've found it helps the beer mature and lose its greenness. But I have kegged beers in 7 days (wanted to clear the fermenter for another batch), and after a little while to condition, they've been great.

So anywhere from 7 days to 28, though I don't want to go longer than that as an extended time in primary can result in off flavors. But more typically, 7-14 days.


OK so at least a week, but 2 weeks is probably closer to the sweet spot...2 weeks +/- a week :)

2. Beer brewing is a pretty resilient process; you have to work hard to screw things up so long as you follow good sanitation practices and are close to what the recipe says to do. Small alterations may change what the final outcome is, but only on the margins; you'll still get beer. And likely good beer.

I've been meticulous about that so hopefully that pays off

Thanks for all the tips, that helps me a lot, cheers
 
Something that will work and that you can adjust as information and experience increases:
Do a proven recipe (kit or reputable magazine)
2-3 weeks primary (the extra week in the primary is a nod to the secondary)
dry hop as above
bottle 70 degrees for two weeks and then check. You can check to see if it's carbonated as much as you like.
Good luck
 
Yeah, I gathered as much. Unfortunately that's a side effect of knowledge and experience on the internets, especially on forums such as these: you become incapable of answering the simple questions with simple answers because you know too much. I always likened it to when your 7 year old comes to you with help on his math homework and you start talking advanced calculus to him. He'll appreciate it at 17 when he's actually taking calculus, but at 7? Not so much.

In fairness, it's hard to tell where someone is in brewing and just how much to simplify things to hit their sweet spot.

What you were asking was, in truth, fairly difficult to answer effectively, because it DOES depend on a lot of variables.

1. Secondaries aren't necessary unless you're doing something weird like adding fruit or maybe a weird infusion or something. You don't need it, and it just increases the chances for oxidation and contamination. Avoid.

That's one of those prime examples of 'ask 10 people, get 11 answers' though isn't it? Some folks seem to swear by it, some not at all. lol
Would it be fair to say that 'necessary' is the operative word here? That it can be a beneifcial technique but that omitting it is never going to ruin your beer, whereas if you do it wrong you definitely run that risk?

No. When you say "it can be a beneficial technique" you have to include the context. I daresay you're not seeing very many experienced brewers here say "it can be beneficial" unless they're throwing the wort on fruit or something like that.

The first time I didn't use a secondary the beer was as good (I'd say better) than when I did use one.

The whole secondary thing (aside from fruit/other additions/ or when you're aging for a long time) comes from a time when yeast wasn't as good, and there was concern about autolysis, when is when yeast dies, the cell walls break open, icky stuff enters the beer, and you get bad flavors.

That's pretty much over with, and it's hard to identify a reason to secondary, on top of the fact of potential contamination and oxygen exposure.

How long in primary? As I approach the end of fermentation, for an ale, I'll bump the temp up to 71f for a couple days, then down again to the main temp (typically 64-67). I'll let it sit on the yeast cake for a while; I've found it helps the beer mature and lose its greenness. But I have kegged beers in 7 days (wanted to clear the fermenter for another batch), and after a little while to condition, they've been great.

So anywhere from 7 days to 28, though I don't want to go longer than that as an extended time in primary can result in off flavors. But more typically, 7-14 days.


OK so at least a week, but 2 weeks is probably closer to the sweet spot...2 weeks +/- a week :)

I know what you're looking for--I was looking for it too, which is a set of ironclad rules on which you can rely. You have to look at the process, and that varies from recipe to recipe. At minimum, you should have fermentation complete, which can be as short as 2.5 days to maybe even a couple weeks, depending on temp the wort is feremented, the type of yeast, pitch rate, yada, yada, yada. The better approach is to simply identify when fermentation is complete, rather than focusing on some kind of time frame.

2. Beer brewing is a pretty resilient process; you have to work hard to screw things up so long as you follow good sanitation practices and are close to what the recipe says to do. Small alterations may change what the final outcome is, but only on the margins; you'll still get beer. And likely good beer.
I've been meticulous about that so hopefully that pays off

Thanks for all the tips, that helps me a lot, cheers

IMO, the big thing for newbies is to BREW. Get one under your belt, and then suddenly all that stuff you've read about makes much more sense. Your sanitation is meticulous, so the only question is the process and the recipe. As long as you're close, you'll get beer, and who knows, if you miss by some small amount, the beer might even taste better to you than if you hadn't.

I gave up, probably around batch 20, trying to hit some mythical target, and started focusing on what I wanted to drink. IMO, too many new brewers are overly focused on minute details like hitting exactly the number of IBUs, or getting their efficiency to a certain number, or being exact in their water utilization, or whatever.

Two more things:

First, IMO new brewers should focus more on perfecting the process than on trying new brews all over the place. If you keep changing the recipes and you have issues in the brewing, how can you isolate the issue? You can't.

I fell victim to that trap, trying to clone a beer right from the get-go when I should have been learning the process and trying to repeat it with a beer. When you have the process down, then you can fiddle with recipes, water, ferm temp, whatever and have some confidence that changes are the result of that and not variance in the process.

Second, I'm a huge proponent of Continuous Quality Improvement. Every time I brew, I try to do something better than last time. The cumulative effect is very powerful--after a while, you find your beer is great, because you've continuously tried to make it better. If you do that, I have no doubt your beer will get to the point where it's celebrated.
 

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