Three body secondary + primary regulator or three body regulator?

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GeorgeGreen

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Hey everyone, I'm new to kegging and getting my kegerator setup. I was all set to get a primary regulator + 3body secondary (i brew seltzer and plan on having one on tap at all times) but I found this on amazon (https://www.amazon.com/SPARC-Premium-Regulator-Warranty-Kombucha/dp/B0947BNDZT/) and wondering if there's any reason I should NOT get it. Any ideas, including quality? Reviews seemed decent.

Thanks!
 

Deadalus

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Only 81% of the people rated it 4 or 5 stars plus a couple of recent poor reviews. I look for 89-90% for the total of 4 and 5 usually.

If you need three lines you can get the usual primary with a low and a high gauge which has one line for the keg and then a dual body secondary regulator. You would need one connector. Sometimes the threads can be right or left handed (at least on the gauge side that is) so if you want to add secondary regulators you need to make sure about the threads. That one connector can run you $4-10 plus shipping. Possibly less but I had trouble finding a match to the triple I bought (to have four lines).
 

Broken Crow

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My first regulator looked very much like that; Cheap Import. It served its purpose mostly, but was not entirely accurate. For where I was at the time it was fine as it got me close to the mark, but each time I re-deployed it, it settled on a slightly different pressure and sometimes it would change slightly while in use. If it means waiting another payday or 3 and maybe cutting something else out of your budget to set aside the extra cash to get a Taprite or Micromatic, you'll have a regulator that'll last a lifetime and be worth a few weeks of financial tightness. ...just my 2-cents worth.
 

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You can also buy a dual gauge primary ( 2 low, 1 high pressure) and one secondary regulator. You'll still need the connectora wye or a tee off the primary out. Could be cheaper that way vs the other. I have three working primary gauges and one old one. (The old one ruined with a beverage leak.) Two Taprites, one off brand, and one old one that I think is Cornelius, I also recommend the Taprites. You'll want to get one with either a knob or a t-handle to control the pressure vs the slotted screw, just in case you were considering that. I don't know how many times I had to dive into my keezer to fetch the damn screwdriver! Another tip, if you buy a regulator with barbed outs on the shutoff valve you many not be able to use Evabarrier and Duotight or John Guest ptc fittings. Usually the barb doesn't unscrew on the valve. You'd then need a new shutoff valve with a male flare connector and that will run you about $8-10 or more per shutoff. That's another reason to not get the ones you linked.
 
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SanPancho

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i'd spend the money on a nice primary with dual gauges. for the secondaries, you can get away with some of the cheap inline ones for the duotight system. your primary is going to be set at seltzer psi since it's highest, then you can tee off and come to the little inline regulator for your beer. save you a TON of money.

the eva barrier tubing will go over the barbs on the regulator. typically they're 5/16. but only the "large" tubing size, which is 9.5mm OD. just drop it in near boiling water or use a heat gun/hair dryer and maybe a fat pen to help widen the tubing end. once it goes on the barb and cools its locked on tight. the only bummer is that the inline regulator is going to be the smaller tubing size, so you'll need to adapt down to its size. but you could just buy a tiny bit of the 9.5 size to get on the barb, and then immediately put on reducer to go down to the smaller size. then run everything in smaller size if you want.
 

Deadalus

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i'd spend the money on a nice primary with dual gauges. for the secondaries, you can get away with some of the cheap inline ones for the duotight system. your primary is going to be set at seltzer psi since it's highest, then you can tee off and come to the little inline regulator for your beer. save you a TON of money.

the eva barrier tubing will go over the barbs on the regulator. typically they're 5/16. but only the "large" tubing size, which is 9.5mm OD. just drop it in near boiling water or use a heat gun/hair dryer and maybe a fat pen to help widen the tubing end. once it goes on the barb and cools its locked on tight. the only bummer is that the inline regulator is going to be the smaller tubing size, so you'll need to adapt down to its size. but you could just buy a tiny bit of the 9.5 size to get on the barb, and then immediately put on reducer to go down to the smaller size. then run everything in smaller size if you want.
I agree using the Duotights would save some money but not a ton and and might possibly be lesser quality. Upfront you can just buy a regulator that has the flare threads on the shutoff. Assume just doing that for either a Duotight setup or say a Taprite double secondary. Avoiding putting evabarrier on a barb is worth the fitting cost there. Switching between sizes would cost a reducer coupling anyway. A leak will cost a tank of gas. Duotight setup would need two regulators (~$17 each) plus two inline valves (~$3 each) and two check valves (~$3 each) plus one elbow ($3) and a tee ($3). That totals about $54. A Taprite double secondary costs $107 from Brewhardware with the MFL and Duotight flare fitting. However...at Brewhardware you could buy a dual pressure but primary regulator (with the red knobs) for $109 and then their single secondary regulator ($43). It's "bare bones" so looks to need a 1/4" male npt to ptc fitting for the in ($2.25). That's about $154 but The Duotight ($54) setup needs the single output primary and that's $69 for so $123 in comparison and only a ~$31 difference instead of about $53 the way I first described it. Only at Brewhardware though because most everywhere else, those Taprite regulators cost a bit more and don't always come with the flare fitting on the check valve.

I also did want to say my bad on the coupling nut I mentioned. I was thinking of the one I had to pick up as I bought both a dual secondary and a single secondary to add on to a primary regulator. You would need a tee or a wye off the primary just the same as Sanpancho describes for the Duotight regulator. The secondaries don't handle the full amount of pressure that the tank puts out so need to be after the primary line out.
 

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I agree using the Duotights would save some money but not a ton and and might possibly be lesser quality. Upfront you can just buy a regulator that has the flare threads on the shutoff. Assume just doing that for either a Duotight setup or say a Taprite double secondary. Avoiding putting evabarrier on a barb is worth the fitting cost there. Switching between sizes would cost a reducer coupling anyway. A leak will cost a tank of gas. Duotight setup would need two regulators (~$17 each) plus two inline valves (~$3 each) and two check valves (~$3 each) plus one elbow ($3) and a tee ($3). That totals about $54. A Taprite double secondary costs $107 from Brewhardware with the MFL and Duotight flare fitting. However...at Brewhardware you could buy a dual pressure but primary regulator (with the red knobs) for $109 and then their single secondary regulator ($43). It's "bare bones" so looks to need a 1/4" male npt to ptc fitting for the in ($2.25). That's about $154 but The Duotight ($54) setup needs the single output primary and that's $69 for so $123 in comparison and only a ~$31 difference instead of about $53 the way I first described it. Only at Brewhardware though because most everywhere else, those Taprite regulators cost a bit more and don't always come with the flare fitting on the check valve.

I also did want to say my bad on the coupling nut I mentioned. I was thinking of the one I had to pick up as I bought both a dual secondary and a single secondary to add on to a primary regulator. You would need a tee or a wye off the primary just the same as Sanpancho describes for the Duotight regulator. The secondaries don't handle the full amount of pressure that the tank puts out so need to be after the primary line out.
putting duotight on a barb is by no means a horrible experience. its easy. i've done it at 1am behind a crowded bar, in the dark, with nothing but a ball point pen and a glass of not-quite boiling water. took me few minutes.

all this setup requires is a primary regulator and a secondary regulator. tee off the secondary if you want more lines. doesnt really matter whether you do a primary/secondary or just two primaries - presents no hindrance to getting two serving pressures.

beyond that, all that's "needed" for that setup is check valve and maybe a tee. (a good primary regulator will already have a check valve.) so only "one more" is needed after that to protect the secondary regulator. (if it didnt come with one) the tubing that is selected will dictate the other pieces and what is necessary or not.

@GeorgeGreen - FYI used regulators on ebay. ("restaurant & food service" category, NOT aquarium) taprites, norgrens and micromatics for 45-50-60ish shipped. the older ones are the best as you can literally feel the difference in the weight when you hold them in your hand. taprite isnt as good as micromatic, neither is as good as norgren. i regularly buy them at the restaurant auctions or ebay and swap them for any crappy newer ones in our operations.
 

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putting duotight on a barb is by no means a horrible experience. its easy. i've done it at 1am behind a crowded bar, in the dark, with nothing but a ball point pen and a glass of not-quite boiling water. took me few minutes.

all this setup requires is a primary regulator and a secondary regulator. tee off the secondary if you want more lines. doesnt really matter whether you do a primary/secondary or just two primaries - presents no hindrance to getting two serving pressures.

beyond that, all that's "needed" for that setup is check valve and maybe a tee. (a good primary regulator will already have a check valve.) so only "one more" is needed after that to protect the secondary regulator. (if it didnt come with one) the tubing that is selected will dictate the other pieces and what is necessary or not.


@GeorgeGreen - FYI used regulators on ebay. ("restaurant & food service" category, NOT aquarium) taprites, norgrens and micromatics for 45-50-60ish shipped. the older ones are the best as you can literally feel the difference in the weight when you hold them in your hand. taprite isnt as good as micromatic, neither is as good as norgren. i regularly buy them at the restaurant auctions or ebay and swap them for any crappy newer ones in our operations.
Hi, I am addressing the OP's desire for three different pressures based on the link to the Sparc branded triple output regulator in the first post. You seemed to have understood that the first time when you said, "for the secondaries". Two Duotight secondary regulators would be required to do that. We can ignore the primary pretty much if comparing those two Duotights against another set of two secondary regulators as both cases are attached after the primary regulator output with the same tubing. After the primary you would branch, with one branch to a keg and one to the secondaries. Then send the secondary branch to a tee which has one secondary on it and the line continues to the second secondary. An elbow would keep both secondaries in the same orientation. An inline ball valve and check valve after the Duotight secondary would have comparable function to the Taprite (or other brand) secondary. Or you can look at the second comparions of the Duotights but consider a dual output primary as I said. If you don't care about the barbs well, this Micromatic secondary is $57 and with two you would need the connector so about $120

Sure you can buy used or off ebay. If you want to go that route, I bought a used in very good condition Taprite double secondary for $47. That's less than the two Duotights and fittings. I also got a new single secondary for $22 less than the one Duotight and fittings. They all had flare threads too! My Taprite primary was also $22, it was just out of the box didn't appear used as far as I recall. It does have a barb but I haven't switched my gas hoses over to Evabarrier yet anyway.

It'll take all of two seconds with no pen and hot water even three sheets to the wind at closing time to stick evabarrier into the ptc fittings it is sized for. Might take a second or two longer than that to get the locking ring pushed in flat to get it back out. Then back in and out many times and it will still hold function. Pretty uncommon to put a hose on a barb without a clamp at least for long term stability, especially a gas under pressure. It makes sense to minimize any chance at leaking as a tank will cost 10x the fitting.
 

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Hi, I am addressing the OP's desire for three different pressures based on the link to the Sparc branded triple output regulator in the first post. You seemed to have understood that the first time when you said, "for the secondaries". Two Duotight secondary regulators would be required to do that. We can ignore the primary pretty much if comparing those two Duotights against another set of two secondary regulators as both cases are attached after the primary regulator output with the same tubing. After the primary you would branch, with one branch to a keg and one to the secondaries. Then send the secondary branch to a tee which has one secondary on it and the line continues to the second secondary. An elbow would keep both secondaries in the same orientation. An inline ball valve and check valve after the Duotight secondary would have comparable function to the Taprite (or other brand) secondary. Or you can look at the second comparions of the Duotights but consider a dual output primary as I said. If you don't care about the barbs well, this Micromatic secondary is $57 and with two you would need the connector so about $120

Sure you can buy used or off ebay. If you want to go that route, I bought a used in very good condition Taprite double secondary for $47. That's less than the two Duotights and fittings. I also got a new single secondary for $22 less than the one Duotight and fittings. They all had flare threads too! My Taprite primary was also $22, it was just out of the box didn't appear used as far as I recall. It does have a barb but I haven't switched my gas hoses over to Evabarrier yet anyway.

It'll take all of two seconds with no pen and hot water even three sheets to the wind at closing time to stick evabarrier into the ptc fittings it is sized for. Might take a second or two longer than that to get the locking ring pushed in flat to get it back out. Then back in and out many times and it will still hold function. Pretty uncommon to put a hose on a barb without a clamp at least for long term stability, especially a gas under pressure. It makes sense to minimize any chance at leaking as a tank will cost 10x the fitting.
You apparently don’t know it’s thermoplastic? It softens and expands with heat. Shrinks when cool.
you literally have to cut it off piece by piece with pair of dikes.

one secondary. Two secondaries. Who cares. The good part of those duotights is you just add a tee and another regulator. Still save a ton of money.

don’t make it harder than it needs to be
 

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You apparently don’t know it’s thermoplastic? It softens and expands with heat. Shrinks when cool.
you literally have to cut it off piece by piece with pair of dikes.

one secondary. Two secondaries. Who cares. The good part of those duotights is you just add a tee and another regulator. Still save a ton of money.

don’t make it harder than it needs to be
I've had to cut tubing off of barbs before doesn't mean it wasn't leaking either, even with a clamp. You're also conveniently ignoring that you said to put a reducer on it afterwards so why not just put the ptc fitting on correctly given the opportunity as the manufacturer intended. One of the reasons the outer layer has the specific polymer used is so that it is smooth and makes a good seal with ptc fittings.

The OP cares how many but answer however you like I suppose. The Duotights are plastic and not rated as well however as say the Taprite secondary regulators at Morebeer as an example. The Duotights get a 4.1 rating and while the Taprite single secondary regulator isn't rated the 2,3, & 4 gauges are (4.3, 4.8, 5.0). Taprite primary regulators are also rated highly there. A few of the complaints about the Duotight secondary are that it doesn't fine tune, that the gauge was off, and it is hard to see. Or go with something as good or better than Taprite but since the OP appears to want to set three different pressures, that's the solution I offered and the cheapest option with well rated regulators is only $32 more. Just wanting two different psi a person could go with the $109 dual pressure (2 red knobs) which would need one more flare to ptc fitting ($3), $112 vs $92 for the Duotight with a Taprite primary, so only $20 savings. Neither is a ton of money and that's not really considering life of the products. If you really want to cheap out just wait for someone to get out of the hobby and pick up the better quality regulator(s) for a discount.
 

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Thank you all for the great advice! I took the advice of going on eBay and think that should cover the primary and hoses as well as giving me some time to find a three body secondary
What are you guys calling a "Primary" regulator. All the pictures I have seen posted are single stage or gangs of single stage.
Last time I dealt with Primary regulators was SCUBA gear where the primary is up at the tank valve and secondary is at (within) the mouthpiece assembly. Primary regulator takes pressure down from 2000+ to the intermediate pressure and the secondary takes it from intermediate to atmospheric (based on depth).
I see our CO2 regulators as single stage that take pressure from ~650 down to the line setting in one step.
Are you calling it primary just because it has the tank fitting on it?
What am I missing?
 

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Primary beer CO2 regulators take the tank pressure down to dispensing pressure and a secondary beer CO2 regulator takes it from an intermediate level to dispensing pressure. A secondary isn't necessary but can be used for setting a different serving pressure. It'll be less than the primary serving pressure as it is fed by the primary. But there are also dual primaries (more than one low pressure gauge), like this one for instance. The single primary gauge is generally just a little bit more than a secondary and I don't know if that's just reflects the high pressure gauge and the tank nut. The secondaries don't take high pressure so something is different on the inside too but I am not familiar with the why of a secondary regulator. I'm thinking it's probably distance from the tank so you wouldn't need a high pressure line of great length to the secondary.
 

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Thank you all for the great advice! I took the advice of going on eBay and think that should cover the primary and hoses as well as giving me some time to find a three body secondary
Where you looking for three or four different serving pressures? Just asking as you could get by with just a double body secondary with a single primary if only three.
 

SanPancho

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Thank you all for the great advice! I took the advice of going on eBay and think that should cover the primary and hoses as well as giving me some time to find a three body secondary
again- check ebay. they're available for sure. its a bit of a crapshoot but a few times i've found a seller who had a few different things for sale at once and was able to negotiate a deal for three separate items. dont be afraid to send them a message and make an offer if you find something like that, worst they can say is no.
 

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Primary beer CO2 regulators take the tank pressure down to dispensing pressure and a secondary beer CO2 regulator takes it from an intermediate level to dispensing pressure. A secondary isn't necessary but can be used for setting a different serving pressure. It'll be less than the primary serving pressure as it is fed by the primary. But there are also dual primaries (more than one low pressure gauge), like this one for instance. The single primary gauge is generally just a little bit more than a secondary and I don't know if that's just reflects the high pressure gauge and the tank nut. The secondaries don't take high pressure so something is different on the inside too but I am not familiar with the why of a secondary regulator. I'm thinking it's probably distance from the tank so you wouldn't need a high pressure line of great length to the secondary.
I'm pretty sure that the pressure both regulators have on the high side is the same = tank pressure. That's why the pressure on the far left gauge still reads tank pressure, it is one common manifold.
In that T752HP-02 setup, i believe both regulators are the same and you could disassemble them from the setup, interchange them and have the same result.
I may be wrong but I am pretty sure that is the case.
 

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Primary beer CO2 regulators take the tank pressure down to dispensing pressure and a secondary beer CO2 regulator takes it from an intermediate level to dispensing pressure. A secondary isn't necessary but can be used for setting a different serving pressure. It'll be less than the primary serving pressure as it is fed by the primary. But there are also dual primaries (more than one low pressure gauge), like this one for instance. The single primary gauge is generally just a little bit more than a secondary and I don't know if that's just reflects the high pressure gauge and the tank nut. The secondaries don't take high pressure so something is different on the inside too but I am not familiar with the why of a secondary regulator. I'm thinking it's probably distance from the tank so you wouldn't need a high pressure line of great length to the secondary.
"Come at the end of the shift we'll go and get pissed!"

And I know the company line but do we really have to wait till end of shift?

Cheers :bigmug:
 

SanPancho

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I've had to cut tubing off of barbs before doesn't mean it wasn't leaking either, even with a clamp. You're also conveniently ignoring that you said to put a reducer on it afterwards so why not just put the ptc fitting on correctly given the opportunity as the manufacturer intended. One of the reasons the outer layer has the specific polymer used is so that it is smooth and makes a good seal with ptc fittings.

The OP cares how many but answer however you like I suppose. The Duotights are plastic and not rated as well however as say the Taprite secondary regulators at Morebeer as an example. The Duotights get a 4.1 rating and while the Taprite single secondary regulator isn't rated the 2,3, & 4 gauges are (4.3, 4.8, 5.0). Taprite primary regulators are also rated highly there. A few of the complaints about the Duotight secondary are that it doesn't fine tune, that the gauge was off, and it is hard to see. Or go with something as good or better than Taprite but since the OP appears to want to set three different pressures, that's the solution I offered and the cheapest option with well rated regulators is only $32 more. Just wanting two different psi a person could go with the $109 dual pressure (2 red knobs) which would need one more flare to ptc fitting ($3), $112 vs $92 for the Duotight with a Taprite primary, so only $20 savings. Neither is a ton of money and that's not really considering life of the products. If you really want to cheap out just wait for someone to get out of the hobby and pick up the better quality regulator(s) for a discount.
its funny how you the point the finger about ignoring things- check the mirror. as i've already told you, its thermoplastic. it literally SHRINKS onto the fitting. vinyl and pvc do NOT. they get "stuck" to the fitting after you squeeze the bejeesus out of them with clamps. not the same. heat shrink eva doesnt even need a clamp. ever heard of Pex-al-pex? same thing. it DONT leak.

and why are you so hung up on a reducer? you've got a shopping list a mile long but you draw the line at a reducer? Ok.

the point of spending cash on a good primary and then going to a cheaper/low cost duotight type secondary is that plenty of folks start out with ideas of having half a dozen different pressures. over time they generally pull back to 2, maybe three. seltzer obviously needs its own, ok fine. but there's THOUSANDS of people out there using one pressure to serve ipas, pale ales, belgians, saisons, AND lagers, etc. etc and nobody has died. they still enjoyed their beer. there's no epidemic of duotights failing and everyone dying of asphyxiation from co2. its not a thing.

the benefit with a duotight type connection, its easy to pull off crap you're not using. but also to add it when you decide your fruity sour really does need its own 18psi pressure. will they sometimes leak? sure. but your crappy MFL barbs connectors do it too. all it takes is twisting the tubing and they loosen and leak. at least with the duotight style you can add the locking collars and likelihood of leaks goes way down.

you make your recommendations.

i'm going to make my own.
 

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I'm pretty sure that the pressure both regulators have on the high side is the same = tank pressure. That's why the pressure on the far left gauge still reads tank pressure, it is one common manifold.
In that T752HP-02 setup, i believe both regulators are the same and you could disassemble them from the setup, interchange them and have the same result.
I may be wrong but I am pretty sure that is the case.
I left out "money" where I said "...a little bit more [money]" which may have created a little confusion. Yes. I think so as well as to what you are saying about the one I linked. Taprite seems to mostly use the red knobs for their primaries and gold knobs for their secondaries although they have a gray knob on what they call a "hybrid" on their primary regulator page. (That one has two different ranges for the two low pressure gauges.) The one I linked has two red knobs.
 
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What are you guys calling a "Primary" regulator. All the pictures I have seen posted are single stage or gangs of single stage.
Last time I dealt with Primary regulators was SCUBA gear where the primary is up at the tank valve and secondary is at (within) the mouthpiece assembly. Primary regulator takes pressure down from 2000+ to the intermediate pressure and the secondary takes it from intermediate to atmospheric (based on depth).
I see our CO2 regulators as single stage that take pressure from ~650 down to the line setting in one step.
Are you calling it primary just because it has the tank fitting on it?
What am I missing?

It's exactly the same as SCUBA with different pressures. A primary regulator takes XXXpsi tank pressure down to XXpsi and a secondary will take that down a little further. All of the bodies are capable of being a primary or secondary, it just depends on whether tank pressure or some lower pressure is fed into the horizontal (high) pressure side of the regulator or not.
 

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Hey everyone, I'm new to kegging and getting my kegerator setup. I was all set to get a primary regulator + 3body secondary (i brew seltzer and plan on having one on tap at all times) but I found this on amazon (https://www.amazon.com/SPARC-Premium-Regulator-Warranty-Kombucha/dp/B0947BNDZT/) and wondering if there's any reason I should NOT get it. Any ideas, including quality? Reviews seemed decent.

Thanks!

The main reason to not put a banked primary regulator directly on the tank is that it makes the tank top heavy an will require adequate lashing to hold the tank from falling over.
 

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its funny how you the point the finger about ignoring things- check the mirror. as i've already told you, its thermoplastic. it literally SHRINKS onto the fitting. vinyl and pvc do NOT. they get "stuck" to the fitting after you squeeze the bejeesus out of them with clamps. not the same. heat shrink eva doesnt even need a clamp. ever heard of Pex-al-pex? same thing. it DONT leak.

and why are you so hung up on a reducer? you've got a shopping list a mile long but you draw the line at a reducer? Ok.

the point of spending cash on a good primary and then going to a cheaper/low cost duotight type secondary is that plenty of folks start out with ideas of having half a dozen different pressures. over time they generally pull back to 2, maybe three. seltzer obviously needs its own, ok fine. but there's THOUSANDS of people out there using one pressure to serve ipas, pale ales, belgians, saisons, AND lagers, etc. etc and nobody has died. they still enjoyed their beer. there's no epidemic of duotights failing and everyone dying of asphyxiation from co2. its not a thing.

the benefit with a duotight type connection, its easy to pull off crap you're not using. but also to add it when you decide your fruity sour really does need its own 18psi pressure. will they sometimes leak? sure. but your crappy MFL barbs connectors do it too. all it takes is twisting the tubing and they loosen and leak. at least with the duotight style you can add the locking collars and likelihood of leaks goes way down.

you make your recommendations.

i'm going to make my own.
You were the person that took issue with using the flare fitting initially. It's a hack to stick the evabarrier on a barb-- particularly when not including at least a clamp--when the manufacturer designed it for ptc. You are deforming it as well and in a homebrewing situation that line is going to be bumped, pulled, pushed, and twisted. Which we seem to agree on but you are being so stubborn as to not even put a freakin' clamp on it. I've only used regular and oxygen barrier pex when I personally replaced my water lines and radiant heating system in my house. I prefer using the crimp rings on the barbs vs the clamps. I know what pex-al-pex is and that it generally uses either crimp rings or compression fittings. I'm not completely familiar with it though but can you ream it out with a pen and heat gun it? Sounds like an inspector fail but you do you. No you don't generally get a leak with the crimp rings, I only ever had one no go leak (ring was too far away from the end), but if you just stick the pex on the barb yes it will leak for sure as I have forgotten to crimp one before.
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1664336908893.jpeg

A reducer costs the same as the flare to ptc fitting you want to ignore using. That makes it a wash between the two but like I said it's a hack to just stick the tubing on the barb.

A bit dramatic about the CO2 leaking. A leak is going to cost a tank of gas. To have that happen over a $3 fitting is penny wise and pound foolish.

My suggestion as to the higher quality setup is a shorter list, you just left off some stuff that would make your setup function equivalently. Which is part of the reason you think you are saving a TON of money.

YES ABSOLUTELY the duotype is easy to pull on and off and I can't really fathom why you would hack on the evabarrier to the barb (followed by a reducer) to negate that over one inexpensive flare to ptc fitting.
 

Deadalus

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It's exactly the same as SCUBA with different pressures. A primary regulator takes XXXpsi tank pressure down to XXpsi and a secondary will take that down a little further. All of the bodies are capable of being a primary or secondary, it just depends on whether tank pressure or some lower pressure is fed into the horizontal (high) pressure side of the regulator or not.
I am not doubting what you are saying but why do Taprite and Micromatic (and possibly other companies) go so far as to have a completely different webpage for primaries and secondaries? There's the high pressure gauge nearly always and the tank nut on the primaries and one I missed the mounting bars for the secondaries. It is just the addons then, which is what @PCABrewing was asking. The bodies do the same thing (for the same quality level). While it is not untrue, the language often used for the secondaries is that they take an intermediate pressure or they take pressure from the primary. It really makes it seem like they can't take the tank pressure when fed through the horizontal port.. They go so far as to separate them distinctly when selling them when they are just like different options packages for the same model car.

Well if one were to go used then, it's not critical at all then to look for "secondaries". You might be able to find a "primary" cheaper and just cannibalize it. "Primaries" are easier to find.
 

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I am not doubting what you are saying but why do Taprite and Micromatic (and possibly other companies) go so far as to have a completely different webpage for primaries and secondaries? There's the high pressure gauge nearly always and the tank nut on the primaries and one I missed the mounting bars for the secondaries. It is just the addons then, which is what @PCABrewing was asking. The bodies do the same thing (for the same quality level). While it is not untrue, the language often used for the secondaries is that they take an intermediate pressure or they take pressure from the primary. It really makes it seem like they can't take the tank pressure when fed through the horizontal port.. They go so far as to separate them distinctly when selling them when they are just like different options packages for the same model car.

Well if one were to go used then, it's not critical at all then to look for "secondaries". You might be able to find a "primary" cheaper and just cannibalize it. "Primaries" are easier to find.

I mean, I understand why manufacturers treat them as different products because they are configured differently enough, but most importantly they are purchased in their configured format for a customer's intended usage.

A primary
-has a CGA320 (for a CO2 example) tailpiece and nut for tank connection (but sometimes they just have a male flare instead for use with a high pressure tank remote hose).
-has a high pressure gauge for tank pressure
-does not have any mounting brackets

A secondary
-has a flare or barbed connector for gas input (you couldn't put 900psi tank pressure into a hose barb connection with typical beverage hoses)
-usually has a mounting bracket of some kind

My point was that the body itself doesn't seem to be manufactured with different parts. The replacement needle valves, diaphragms, and bonnets appear to be the same between Taprite primaries and secondaries for example. The bodies themselves are different castings though, because they made the decision to put left hand thread on the high pressure axis of the primary regs. I think the entire purpose of that decision was to keep people from mistakenly threading a hose barb in.


When someone wants 3 different pressures inside their unit while leaving the tank outside, I usually suggest this configuration:
1664373775024.png



The pass through pressure #1 would typically be for seltzer or for burst carbing kegs overnight so it would be something like 20-30psi.

The same effect can be achieved by splitting a line directly off the output of the primary, but then you have to run two lines into the refrigerator for no real benefit. I'd still end up splitting the primary output with shutoff valves so that I can have a rolled up accessory gas line for purging, etc outside of the fridge.
 
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PCABrewing

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I mean, I understand why manufacturers treat them as different products because they are configured differently enough, but most importantly they are purchased in their configured format for a customer's intended usage.

A primary
-has a CGA320 (for a CO2 example) tailpiece and nut for tank connection (but sometimes they just have a male flare instead for use with a high pressure tank remote hose).
-has a high pressure gauge for tank pressure
-does not have any mounting brackets

A secondary
-has a flare or barbed connector for gas input (you couldn't put 900psi tank pressure into a hose barb connection with typical beverage hoses)
-usually has a mounting bracket of some kind

My point was that the body itself doesn't seem to be manufactured with different parts. The replacement needle valves, diaphragms, and bonnets appear to be the same between Taprite primaries and secondaries for example. The bodies themselves are different castings though, because they made the decision to put left hand thread on the high pressure axis of the primary regs. I think the entire purpose of that decision was to keep people from mistakenly threading a hose barb in.


When someone wants 3 different pressures inside their unit while leaving the tank outside, I usually suggest this configuration:
View attachment 782138


The pass through pressure #1 would typically be for seltzer or for burst carbing kegs overnight so it would be something like 20-30psi.

The same effect can be achieved by splitting a line directly off the output of the primary, but then you have to run two lines into the refrigerator for no real benefit. I'd still end up splitting the primary output with shutoff valves so that I can have a rolled up accessory gas line for purging, etc outside of the fridge.
In your illustration above, I could accomplish exactly the same thing with three identical regulators.
In fact it would be cheaper and just as effective to use only two. The only advantage I see to that setup is the ability to use low-pressure rated hose to serve the two regulators on the left but otherwise I see wasted money on the "primary" regulator.
My original point was that there is no difference between the regulators that would define one as a Primary regulator. The only thing that establishes one as primary in the above illustration is the application, not the hardware.
Don't you agree?

Edit: I can see your point about runnning multiple low-pressure lines to a fridge or kegerator.
 
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Deadalus

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@Bobby_M I agree with you, I was previously thinking similarly that the bodies were potentially the same. I didn't find an example one way or the other in a number of the parts diagrams. It wasn't an exhaustive search. I didn't want to be wrong (safety problem) and so I went with the language being used in the product descriptions and manufacturers web pages. Thought maybe it was a small part, or different calibration. It's not just homebrewers buying these, commercial operations use these too, before homebrewing started to use them, and the commercial operations have larger and more complex situations so I get what you're saying about the application. It would be useful if the manufacturers would mention that the secondary can accept tank pressure (and they might somewhere I didn't see it). Maybe they want to avoid users using the wrong tubing. Plus a triple bank primary would be top heavy, potentially awkward to situate vs a single primary and the remaining secondaries mounted on a wall or more convenient location. Even more than 3 would continue to exacerbate the problem.
 
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PCABrewing

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"a triple bank primary would be top heavy, potentially awkward to situate vs a single primary and the remaining secondaries mounted on a wall or more convenient location. Even more than 3 would continue to exacerbate the problem."
I have one with two regs and that is barely stable. Would not take much to topple it if not tied down. Three would be worse for sure.
 

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In your illustration above, I could accomplish exactly the same thing with three identical regulators.
Yes you can, but it would have to either have a CGA320 tailpiece or a high pressure supply hose ($$$$).
In fact it would be cheaper and just as effective to use only two.
If you only want two different pressures yes. If you want three pressures, you need three regulators whether they are setup like my drawing or if they are setup as a 3-bank primary.
The only advantage I see to that setup is the ability to use low-pressure rated hose to serve the two regulators on the left but otherwise I see wasted money on the "primary" regulator.
Only wasted if you think you can get what you want with two regulators.
My original point was that there is no difference between the regulators that would define one as a Primary regulator. The only thing that establishes one as primary in the above illustration is the application, not the hardware.
Don't you agree?
Yes, that's what I said but the "accessory" hardware does matter, such as the CGA320 connection to the tank.
Edit: I can see your point about runnning multiple low-pressure lines to a fridge or kegerator.
And in some cases drilling the one hole is scary enough.
 

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@Bobby_M I agree with you, I was previously thinking similarly that the bodies were potentially the same. I didn't find an example one way or the other in a number of the parts diagrams. It wasn't an exhaustive search. I didn't want to be wrong (safety problem) and so I went with the language being used in the product descriptions and manufacturers web pages. Thought maybe it was a small part, or different calibration. It's not just homebrewers buying these, commercial operations use these too, before homebrewing started to use them, and the commercial operations have larger and more complex situations so I get what you're saying about the application. It would be useful if the manufacturers would mention that the secondary can accept tank pressure (and they might somewhere I didn't see it). Maybe they want to avoid users using the wrong tubing. Plus a triple bank primary would be top heavy, potentially awkward to situate vs a single primary and the remaining secondaries mounted on a wall or more convenient location. Even more than 3 would continue to exacerbate the problem.
I agree. The only way I'd put a double primary on a 5lb is if it's inside the kegerator and jammed or clamped in such a way that it can't fall over. It's not something to casually have sitting on the floor. If you do, the clamp on steel damage guard is a must. I don't think it's responsible to even sell a 3-pressure tank mount primary.
 

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Yes you can, but it would have to either have a CGA320 tailpiece or a high pressure supply hose ($$$$).
I don't think we have an argument, your points are all valid.

But, if you don't already own one, you should buy a sailboat.
It will change your whole perspective on what is "$$$$" :)
 
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