Thoughts on saving a BW with bugs

[Bensiff]

I had an English BW 1.093 crap out on me at 1.031 and its a little too sweet for me. At 8.1 ABV and 50 IBUs can I do anything to try and resurrect it? Would brett have way too much funk with that much sugar to play with or is it a matter of selecting the right strain? Recommendations? Any pedio or lacto strains available that might handle that abv and ibu well enough to bring some sour to the table?

 

[mnick12]

If you still want to keep it a BW, then see if your local homebrew shop has amylase enzyme. I had a similair situation with my recent BW 1.098-1.032 with chico. I dosed with around a 1/4ml of amylase and pitched kv-1116. A slow steady fermentation is going on, and the gravity is slowly dropping. Plus kv-1116 throws some beautiful esters.

 

[Bensiff]

Isn't that a killer strain? I wonder how that will work with the residual of the 001.

 

[mnick12]

Yes I believe it is a killer strain, but at ~9% I figured the ale yeast was about done for anyway. Additonally I got all the character I was looking for from the chico, the wine yeast was pitched mostly to further attenuate the beer (the pleasent sensory profile was just a bonus).

I also racked it off the trub/ chico before I added the amylase and kv-1116.

 

[Bensiff]

Yes I believe it is a killer strain, but at ~9% I figured the ale yeast was about done for anyway. Additonally I got all the character I was looking for from the chico, the wine yeast was pitched mostly to further attenuate the beer (the pleasent sensory profile was just a bonus).

I also racked it off the trub/ chico before I added the amylase and kv-1116.

I have 15 gallons of this stuff sitting in a barrel. I had hoped I would get lucky and have it drop another 5 points after racking and plenty of time but no such luck. If you don't mind I'll PM you and wait for your final results to see if it got yours down far enough.

I just did some research one stain of lacto brevis tested was tolerant to 35 IBUs (they did not test higher) and in general ABVs did not impact their growth. So, my other option would be to get some brevis and pull a sample of the BW and see if it will grow. If it does then make a starter and toss that and some select brett strains into the barrel. After all, the barrel is destined to get inoculated anyway, just thought I might pull a few good bourbon aged beers first.

 

[mnick12]

Sounds good, I will let you know how it goes. Right now its still in the carboy.

 

[Bensiff]

In the meantime I am still interest to hear anyone's thoughts on throwing bugs at this beer???

 

[dcp27]

a lot of the brett funk comes from converting existing esters/phenols vs consuming sugar. since english strains dont typically produce a lot of the pre-cursors that characteristic brett funk comes from, it may not get all that funky. I haven't done much with english strains and brett, tho I did brett a lager and it still got pretty funky. which brett you use depends on what you're looking to get out of it. you could also add a fruit like cherries or raspberries along with brett to add a tartness

pedio will definitely work, but it'll be very slow and you'll need to add some brett along with it. building up some jolly pumpkin dregs would definitely get you lower and likely quite sour if you want that. if you wanna keep it clean, i'd give WLP099 a try or maybe Wy3711, those beasts should definitely get you lower.

 

[solbes]

I had an extra gallon of 12% Barleywine (90 IBU, 1.025 FG), so I racked it to a 1 gallon carboy last winter. Added dregs from a sour that I made using JP dregs. It started going to work immediately and formed a Pellicle within a week or two. I haven't cracked it yet, but maybe I'll bottle it up this weekend if I find some time and let you know. JP supposedly uses Lacto and Brett, no Pedio.

Another option if you didn't want to add bug dregs is to pitch a yeast starter that is at high krausen. I did that with a 12% RIS and it dropped it further than I thought it would. It would also give you a chance to highly hop it if you want to up the IBU's a bit. Say a higher gravity 2-3L starter with your original yeast strain and double the yeast nutrient to get 'em wearing armor. Pitch the whole thing 12 hours after krausen forms. You may not have enough headspace to do this though, so it may not work for you.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Read through this blog a little:

http://www.browneandbitter.com/

If you enjoy funky beers, then I say go for it! From what I've read of that blog, it sounds like you'd turn it into a more traditional English Barleywine. However, it does seem better to build a recipe from the ground up, rather than trying to fix a beer with bugs. If I were in your predicament, though, I would consider adding Brett.

 

[Bensiff]

Thanks guys, that is plenty to think about as far as what direction I want to take this. 15 gallons of BW is a lot. Maybe the answer is to pull it all from the barrel and try to get one to ferment farther by krausening and hitting it with some amylaze, doing one as a brett only, and pull the sediment off the bottom of my "lambic" and seeing what happens with that.

Yes, I think I should do that. It will be a nice experiment into saving a stalled big beer while at the same time mitigating the potential of losing all 15 gallons if the path I choose fails. This will take some serious planning though, I will have to first have 15 gallons of another brew ready to take over in the barrel.

 

[solbes]

I finally cracked my 12% BW to sneak a taste (has been sitting with JP dregs for 13 months now). I was suprised at how sour it got, given the ABV and high hopping rate (80 IBU). It apparently crunched through that sugar with no problem, so I guess the Lacto must have been working. I won't get a gravity reading until I bottle it (maybe in a couple of weeks), but the original FG was 1.025. I had a very hard time telling it was a barleywine originally based on the recent taste test.

I would say if you want to preserve your barleywine base beer, JP dregs may not be the way to go. Maybe a gallon or two for a good experiment though.