thoughts on Deschutes Abyss

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kcinpdx

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On a whim I contacted the brewery for some ideas on where to start for a homebrew version of Abyss. Not even 24 hrs later I get a nice response thanking me for my interest, some ideas to get started and not to forget that Abyss is aged in Bourbon Oak barrels. Oh, and to let them know how it turns out.


Deschutes Brewery
Imperial Stout Clone

Specifics:

Recipe type: All grain
Batch size: 5 U.S. gallons
Original gravity: 1.100
Final gravity: 1.018
Boil time: 90 minutes
Fermentation temp: 65° F
Yeast type: English Ale

NW 2 row pale malt
Black malt and black barley
C 120, C 60
Malted Wheat
Roasted Barley
Victory or biscuit

Hops:
Millenium, Chinook


Temps, times and weights are the challenge. Happy Brewing!

Some might look at this and say, "well, that does not tell you a lot." I say, I am going to start tinkering in BeerTools and see what comes of it. I might not get as complex as Abyss, but I'll bet I come up with something drinkable.

Any thoughts on an initial direction?
 

Wallygator

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I contacted them about their Buzzsaw Brown. I got the same generic response with a recipe with no amounts. I was thinking of doing the exact thing you are, play around and see how it turns out.
 

ChshreCat

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My brown biscuit ale is tastes frighteningly close to Buzzsaw Brown. You're welcome to the recipe. It's a pretty simple PM.
 
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kcinpdx

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I thought it was pretty cool to send anything at all! I am going to mess with it a bit and see. The Buzzsaw Brown sounds good too - I like that one.

A bit off topic- I was at the new pub in Portland and had the Cinder Oak - Cinder cone red aged in oak. Amazing...
 

ChshreCat

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I like the Cinder Cone red, haven't had it oaked though.

I saw on Deschutes site that they're coming out with Mirror Mirror again any time now.
 

Saccharomyces

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What they gave you is extremely helpful if you couple it with other resources such as Designing Great Beers.

Victory/Biscuit is often paired with domestic 2-row in commercial breweries to get a Maris Otter flavor profile at a much lower cost. Use 3-5% in the grain bill. Or you can drop the Victory and just use Maris Otter for the home-brewed version if you have the budget!

Malted wheat is probably used at 5% of the grist for added body and head retention which can be lacking in such a big beer. Late hop additions or dry hopping will also help improve head retention.

For an imperial stout according to DGB you are usually looking at around 10% crystal and 10% roast malt for the grain bill. I'd go with 50% roasted barley and 50% black malt myself having tasted this beer... it's pretty aggressive on the black malt.

To get to that FG probably want to mash around 154*F and use a clean, attenuative yeast like WY1272 American Ale II around 68*F or WY1028 London Ale at 65*F. I'd pitch a gallon starter into 5 gallons, or maybe make a nice cream ale for summer and pitch on the cake. You want to do everything you can to ensure you don't get an under-attenuated beer when you are at 1.100 as a starting gravity.

Oh, and don't forget to add the licorice and the molasses!

One more thought... millennium is another member of the CTZ family (columbus/tomahawk/zeus) so any of those will sub.

You might want to ask them how they treat their water and what their water profile is like.
 
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kcinpdx

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Wow- thanks for all the advice - I actually own DGB so that should be a valuable guide. Yeah - can't forget the molasses and such - that will make a difference for sure. I cannot think of a more complex beer I've ever tasted. Should be fun.
 

Thor the Mighty

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Ive been playing with some brewing calculators and ive been thinking this is a good grain bill.

comments? suggestions? BMC?

14# Pale 2 row malt 1.8srm
3# Black Malt 65srm
2# Roasted English srm500
1# crystal 120L
1# crystal 60L
0.5# Carapils srm2.5
0.75# Wheat malt srm2
1# Black Barley srm525
1# Victory srm25

Total Grain: 24.50 LBS

Estimated SRM 89.4
at 100% eff. 1.164 OG
at 64% eff 1.100 OG

Havn't figured out the hop additions yet but yeah let me know what you think of the flavor profile on that. I'd probably throw in a stick of Brewer's licorice as well.
 

Thor the Mighty

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Another double post, but i think i've gotten the grain bill straitened out some;

here are the final results of everything.

Name: Fur Burger

14# Belgian Pale srm 3.4
2# Black patent srm 500
2# Black roasted srm 500
1# Crystal 60L
1# Crystal 120L
0.75# Wheat malt srm 4
1# Victory malt srm 25
1 stick brewer's licorice SRM unknown
3# Molasses SRM APPX 50
=21.75 LBS grain
=107.1 SRM
1.180 @ 100% efficiency
1.123 @ 68.1% efficiency

Hops:
Nugget 1oz 90 minutes 13% AA
Columbus 0.5oz 60 minutes 14% AA
Northern Brewer 1oz 5 minutes 4% AA
IBU's = 54...actual on abyss is 51

Yeast: WY1272 American Ale II
FILTHY big starter

Mash:
Pre boil target: 7gal
water to grist: 1.5
Target temp: 154*F for 60 minutes
Grain Absorb. .1x21.75=2.175

Strike water vol. 8.16 gal @ 166.1
first runnings: 3.50 *TREE FIDDY!*

Sparge: Fly sparge
Water volume 5 gallons @ 168*F
should take 1 hour.

Total Water: 8.16+5=13.16 Gallons

In Secondary:
4oz French Medium roast oak chips aged in maker's mark for 2 months.

Name: Fur Burger
 

Saccharomyces

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Plugged this into BeerSmith with typical Imperial Stout ratios of 80% base/toasted, 10% roasted, 10% crystal. I treated molasses as subbing for half the crystal, and I recommend you don't use more than about 5% molasses, as that stuff is strong!

% - Grain/Sugar - (approx. wt for 5 gal)
70% 2-row (14 lb)
5% Wheat Malt (1 lb)
5% Victory Malt (1 lb)
5% Roasted Barley (1 lb)
2.5% Patent Malt (.5 lb)
2.5% Black Malt (.5 lb)
2.5% Crystal 60 (.5 lb)
2.5% Crystal 120 (.5 lb)
5% Molasses (1 lb), boiled 10 minutes
?? Licorice, added at flameout

Single infusion Mash 154*F 60 minutes

To get percentages in software plug each % grain in pounds, set your expected efficiency, and then have your program scale down to 1.100 OG to get the proper weights. :ban:

They claim French oak and Bourbon barrels so I would do a 50/50 split in secondary for a week -

2 oz American Oak, Bourbon soaked
2 oz French Oak, Bourbon soaked

I agree with Nugget as bittering. Columbus gives a citrusy, piney, and slightly floral flavor and aroma used a late kettle and/or whirlpool equivalent additions, similar to Chinook, so I would add the Columbus later in the boil and use more to get the IBUs. Northern Brewer wouldn't be wasted anywhere in the brewery but a hopback I'll bet.

I'm going with:

1 oz Nugget 90
.5 oz Columbus 30
.5 oz Columbus 15
1 oz Northern Brewer 2

From experience I'll bet a big honkin' starter of Wyeast 1028 would tear through this in about 6 days and take it down to 1.018 or so if mashed at 154*F, that would be my choice of yeast for this brew. I use it at 65*F and it works like a champ every time. I would use a 2-3L starter on stir plate or a 4-6L starter fed pure O2 if not using a stir plate depending on the age of the smack pack. An aeration stone is a must for brewing a beer over 1.070 IMO, it's $50 well spent if you plan on brewing lots of big beers like I do.
 

Thor the Mighty

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an article i read on the abyss said that they used northern, so i was lied to? sweet. thanks for all the help and numbers bro.

the hop schedule u gave me adds a couple more IBU's to the mix, but do those times give it a more 'abyss-ey' taste? from what i could recall it was mostly bittering hops. but then again its been a while.
 

saq

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I like this discussion, I'm thinking of brewing up an Imperial Stout soon, but I'm thinking bigger like Dark Lord ish.
 

Thor the Mighty

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i just tried making dark lord but the srm was way way way off from what i wanted for some reason....im pretty new to designing my own all grain recipes so thats definately what went wrong. just be warned, dark lord is a massive massive brew and it was about 29lbs of grain to make that beast.
 

Thor the Mighty

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yeah, i brewed it and it came out AMAZING! i skipped out on the makers mark oak chips because i got lazy and just wanted to drink the damn beer. head and SRM are exactly like an abyss. needs more body though. you should put in more carapil if you want to make this beer.
might have bottled a little early, didnt check the FG because my hydrometer was broken but it has a huge rocky brownish red head that stays around forever. very spicy, too because i dry hopped with chinook about 3 weeks before bottling.
 

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Does Anyone Have Any Ideas On How To Make A Malt Extract Version Of This?? Thank You :)
 

ChshreCat

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Does Anyone Have Any Ideas On How To Make A Malt Extract Version Of This?? Thank You :)
I don't think you're going to be able to do it all extract. Gonna have to at least do a partial mash, but that's not hard to do.
 

HHH23

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Well what do you think a partial grain/malt extract version would be like???
 

ChshreCat

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Man, even a partial mash would be a LOT of grains to be able to mash the specialty malts. 7.75# of specialty malt and you want enough 2-row to convert. You usually want to go pound for pound between your specialty malts and your base malt, so you're already over 15# for a PM grainbill. You can probably cut that down a little using 6-row instead of 2-row.
 

Oldsock

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Man, even a partial mash would be a LOT of grains to be able to mash the specialty malts. 7.75# of specialty malt and you want enough 2-row to convert. You usually want to go pound for pound between your specialty malts and your base malt, so you're already over 15# for a PM grainbill. You can probably cut that down a little using 6-row instead of 2-row.
It looks like all but two of the grains don’t need conversion. The wheat malt could just be replaced with about the same amount of wheat extract, leaving just the biscuit/victory to convert. Honestly in such a big flavorful beer I doubt you would miss it, just leaving it out.

~6 lbs of steeping grains is still a lot, but it doesn't sound completely unmanageable. Then you could just add enough pale DME (or LME) to hit your target gravity. Everything else would be the same assuming you could do a full boil.
 

oregonparamedic

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When did they start making Abyss? I have '07-'10 aging and would have an '06 but I drank all of it. '06 was the 1st I had heard of it.
 

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Plugged this into BeerSmith with typical Imperial Stout ratios of 80% base/toasted, 10% roasted, 10% crystal. I treated molasses as subbing for half the crystal, and I recommend you don't use more than about 5% molasses, as that stuff is strong!

% - Grain/Sugar - (approx. wt for 5 gal)
70% 2-row (14 lb)
5% Wheat Malt (1 lb)
5% Victory Malt (1 lb)
5% Roasted Barley (1 lb)
2.5% Patent Malt (.5 lb)
2.5% Black Malt (.5 lb)
2.5% Crystal 60 (.5 lb)
2.5% Crystal 120 (.5 lb)
5% Molasses (1 lb), boiled 10 minutes
?? Licorice, added at flameout

Single infusion Mash 154*F 60 minutes

old thread bump, but I have a question.

im planning on trying this recipe, but, what Im reading is that black malt and black patent malt are the same thing.

so, do I just use 5% black (patent) malt, or should I sub in something else.

ideas?
 

griffonage

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old thread bump, but I have a question.

im planning on trying this recipe, but, what Im reading is that black malt and black patent malt are the same thing.

so, do I just use 5% black (patent) malt, or should I sub in something else.

ideas?
Black Malt is also known as Black Barley. See the chart in the link below for a description of the differences.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart

Also, as a side note, I recently bottled my own Abyss inspired recipe. Here it is if you're interested.
http://hopville.com/recipe/483845/home-brew/nevermore---abyss-inspired


yikes, I need to update my sig.
 

Oldsock

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HItransplant

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Oldsock said:
Black Barley usually refers to dark roasted barley (which is unmalted). For example: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Roasted_Barley.htm I've always heard black malt and black patent as interchangeable names for malted barley that is roasted to a very dark color.
This is what I've come to understand...

Here's a new quandary...how to know when the roast barley in a recipe is 300L, and when it is 500L.
Seems like the 300L is sometimes called roasted and sometimes called "light roasted." which is which? And, what is the most appropriate use of each?

Thoughts?
 

Haputanlas

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Plugged this into BeerSmith with typical Imperial Stout ratios of 80% base/toasted, 10% roasted, 10% crystal. I treated molasses as subbing for half the crystal, and I recommend you don't use more than about 5% molasses, as that stuff is strong!

% - Grain/Sugar - (approx. wt for 5 gal)
70% 2-row (14 lb)
5% Wheat Malt (1 lb)
5% Victory Malt (1 lb)
5% Roasted Barley (1 lb)
2.5% Patent Malt (.5 lb)
2.5% Black Malt (.5 lb)
2.5% Crystal 60 (.5 lb)
2.5% Crystal 120 (.5 lb)
5% Molasses (1 lb), boiled 10 minutes
?? Licorice, added at flameout

Single infusion Mash 154*F 60 minutes

To get percentages in software plug each % grain in pounds, set your expected efficiency, and then have your program scale down to 1.100 OG to get the proper weights. :ban:

They claim French oak and Bourbon barrels so I would do a 50/50 split in secondary for a week -

2 oz American Oak, Bourbon soaked
2 oz French Oak, Bourbon soaked

I agree with Nugget as bittering. Columbus gives a citrusy, piney, and slightly floral flavor and aroma used a late kettle and/or whirlpool equivalent additions, similar to Chinook, so I would add the Columbus later in the boil and use more to get the IBUs. Northern Brewer wouldn't be wasted anywhere in the brewery but a hopback I'll bet.

I'm going with:

1 oz Nugget 90
.5 oz Columbus 30
.5 oz Columbus 15
1 oz Northern Brewer 2

From experience I'll bet a big honkin' starter of Wyeast 1028 would tear through this in about 6 days and take it down to 1.018 or so if mashed at 154*F, that would be my choice of yeast for this brew. I use it at 65*F and it works like a champ every time. I would use a 2-3L starter on stir plate or a 4-6L starter fed pure O2 if not using a stir plate depending on the age of the smack pack. An aeration stone is a must for brewing a beer over 1.070 IMO, it's $50 well spent if you plan on brewing lots of big beers like I do.


Anyone attempted this with tasting notes?

Saccharomyces, great analysis by the way.
 

dirty_martini

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Wow...without havent seen this thread, this abyss clone is oddly similar to the imperial stout recipe I was about to brew...however, im going to take the 5gal batch and split it into 2 2.5gal batches and ferment one with a belgian strain. Heres my recipe in comparison

65%eff
13lb 2-row (65%)
3lb Wheat (15%)
1lb crystal 90 (5%)
1lb Chocolate (5%)
.5lb carafa III (2.5%)
.5lb Roasted Barley (2.5%)
1lb D2 Candi Syrup
 

diatonic

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I've got to brew this. I'll post any changes I make to the recipe & provide tasting notes when it's ready.
 

bela

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Does anyone know where I can pick up some Abyss? I live in the portland area.

Wife and i will be going to Deschutes this friday so hopefully we can find some there or some local stores.

I have the grain for what I think will be a pretty good recipe for this beer that I will brew this weekend.

thanks
 

RDWHAHB

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It is only released once a year. I think we see it in November in CO.
 

bela

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qfc? do you know where any stores are in the porland area?
thanks
 

oregonparamedic

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There's a few. Barnes and miller to the west. Broadway and 33rd in northeast. And burnside at 54th ish in southeast.
 
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