Thoughts on boil-off rate?

[Brewbuzzard]

I would love to see what type of boil they employ in a mega brewery that makes the watered down stuff like Budweiser, and their numbers, since in order to make that beer have perfect balanced taste and be consistent as it is they are probably doing things right.

Taste???

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Thanks for the links and info. The Wiki points to the cooling stage as being what is most important. DMS always gets associated with boiling but boiling is going to happen no matter what and the DMS evaporates quite easily at brewing temperatures. SMM is really the culprit and its breakdown is more associated with boiling temps.

Key takeaways:

SMM is largely not broken down into DMS until the boil
High pH in the boil helps this conversion
Reinforces the practice of higher pH through the mash & boil and lowering pH right at the end of the boil
DMS will be evaporating all the way through until sub-99F is reached (huge boil not needed)
Chill to 140F and below quickly as SMM is still being converted but DMS also needs motion to be "pushed" out of the wort

You're last point is problematic if you want to whirlpool hop additions.

 

[RPh_Guy]

You're last point is problematic if you want to whirlpool hop additions.

See my response to that post. That reason is specifically why I corrected him.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

See my response to that post. That reason is specifically why I corrected him.

Yeah, I saw that after I posted. That's good as I typically WP at 170 or lower.

 

[Jordan Logo]

This topic is quite interesting to me...

Do you guys measure your pre-boil volume RIGHT before your boil? And do you guys measure your post-boil volume RIGHT after boil is over, or right before you transfer to fermenter?

According to BeerSmith's settings there is a 4% difference between cold and hot wort.

 

[Franktalk]

Right after boil, as the amount into the fermenter is going to vary according to losses in chilling the wort and transfer into the fermenter. You want to know how much boiled off from the start of the boil to the end; that's all.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

This topic is quite interesting to me...

Do you guys measure your pre-boil volume RIGHT before your boil? And do you guys measure your post-boil volume RIGHT after boil is over, or right before you transfer to fermenter?

According to BeerSmith's settings there is a 4% difference between cold and hot wort.

When I first began BIAB brewing, I was asking for help on hitting my numbers and everyone posted to take Good Readings!!! I continue to do that and in my own program I developed. I actually have estimated levels for pre, post and levels into my fermenter so I have ideas when I don't hit my level and what caused it. I also added in the estimated hot level values so I know what to expect. Some will say over kill but like playing with home brewing, I like playing with that along with my own software program fitted for my unique E-kettle.

 

[RPh_Guy]

This topic is quite interesting to me...

Do you guys measure your pre-boil volume RIGHT before your boil? And do you guys measure your post-boil volume RIGHT after boil is over, or right before you transfer to fermenter?

According to BeerSmith's settings there is a 4% difference between cold and hot wort.

Good point.
I measure volume after lautering and throughout the boil. I adjust all my measurements to room temp.

 

[VikeMan]

Just to add 2 cents to an already long thread, I have been doing gentle boils for over a decade. I'm totally unconvinced by people who say you need a "vigorous" boil for a good hot break, hop utilization, and elimination of DMS. IMO, Keeping the wort at 212F and moving are key. Wort jumping out of the kettle isn't key.

 

[Big Monk]

Just to add 2 cents to an already long thread, I have been doing gentle boils for over a decade. I'm totally unconvinced by people who say you need a "vigorous" boil for a good hot break, hop utilization, and elimination of DMS. IMO, Keeping the wort at 212F and moving are key. Wort jumping out of the kettle isn't key.

THIS!

 

[Die_Beerery]

I'm here to just say how I love people citing Bamforth from years prior. Because now a days, he's completely on the other side of the fence. This should be a lesson to folks. People no matter how full of "credit" or sure of themselves they are, doesn't mean they are in the least bit, correct. Time is a great denominator for that.

 

[VikeMan]

I'm here to just say how I love people citing Bamforth from years prior.

To be fair, Bamforth did use the term "vigorous boil" in a video once. It was, like, an OFFICIAL INTERVIEW.

 

[Die_Beerery]

To be fair, Bamforth did use the term "vigorous boil" in a video once. It was, like, an OFFICIAL INTERVIEW.

Oh's hes said it more than once!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Just to add 2 cents to an already long thread, I have been doing gentle boils for over a decade. I'm totally unconvinced by people who say you need a "vigorous" boil for a good hot break, hop utilization, and elimination of DMS. IMO, Keeping the wort at 212F and moving are key. Wort jumping out of the kettle isn't key.

And the beauty of it is, whether your wort is just barely simmering or is jumping out of the kettle with a ludicrous level of vigor, it's still at 212F.
For some reason people seem to think a hard boil is getting that liquid hotter, but it isn't because, well, physics and stuff.

 

[Big Monk]

To be fair, Bamforth did use the term "vigorous boil" in a video once. It was, like, an OFFICIAL INTERVIEW.

People owe it to themselves to get Bamforth's "Freshness". If you want a handle on the man's opinions currently, it's a great read and has a lot of good info in it.

 

[Die_Beerery]

People owe it to themselves to get Bamforth's "Freshness". If you want a handle on the man's opinions currently, it's a great read and has a lot of good info in it.

Or check his current position of employment

 

[Punjom]

Great Topic! I’ve boiled on very high heat for over 20 years. I’ve brewed a few batches since reading this blog with low boil and had much better results. 20 gal yield with 1.5 gal evap today (was 2.5).

 

[Bigarcherynut]

And the beauty of it is, whether your wort is just barely simmering or is jumping out of the kettle with a ludicrous level of vigor, it's still at 212F.
For some reason people seem to think a hard boil is getting that liquid hotter, but it isn't because, well, physics and stuff.

I have been following this post in hopes to lower my boil-off rates from 2.1 Gal/Hr. to a lower level which I'm doing by lowering my power output to the electric element. My boiling action went from very rigorous to a mild movement of the liquid. I have partially covered my kettle, to leaving it fully open. What I have found is my water temp dropped from 212 at very intense water action with 100% power output to the element, to 206 degrees with my output at 40% output with a lower action as if it's simmering. I'm not here to disagree with your post but I don't think you can turn down the heat whether using electric or gas flame to a point that you have water movement which some are calling a low boil or whether it's called a simmer and maintain 212 degrees. I'm going to continue to start with a very rigorous boil then turn my heat down to maintain a mild boil/simmer with the temperature around 206 degrees to get my boil-off rate down. My last batch I performed this way I went from 2.1 Gal./Hr. to 1.1 Gal./Hr.