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thoughts of overnight mashing

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alex510

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I am making a 5-gallon batch. I have a 5-gallon rubber maid round water cooler.
I would like to start mashing around 11 pm at night(quiet time and me-time around the house) and start brewing around 10 am. What is the consensus ?
 

RM-MN

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Much depends on the quality of the crush. With a very tight crush the starches are available to the water so they gelatinize quickly and conversion is done very soon so the mash temp doesn't change much during conversion. Once the starches are fully converted there will be little further changes. With a coarse crush starch gelatinization will take quite a while and until gelatinized conversion just can't happen. In this case the mash has time for the temperature to fall and the beta amylase gets more active resulting in a more fermentable wort and thus a drier beer. However, there is literature that says that at mash temps the enzymes are quickly denatured after which there will be no further changes to the wort. Most people who report having done an overnight mash claim there is little difference between that and a one hour mash.
 

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I use it for dry beers like Saison, Kolsch, any beer I want below 1.010. If you start with a 152 mash in, and wrap some blankets around the cooler it shouldn't drop below 135 over nite. At 152 the alpha is chomping the starch into pieces that beta can chew from both ends,making maltose. I get mashed in around 9:00 pm and awake around 5:00 am turn on the HLT and am sparging in 90 min. I got a pale ale fermented with Windsor to finish at 1.012
 
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alex510

alex510

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I am making a double IPA -along the line of Pliny. What is the best temp gauge to use to keep an eye on temp?
 

Kent88

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I personally am not enthused about overnight mashes. But I've heard of plenty of brewers doing overnight mashes who seem to make at least decent beer, some (probably most) make pretty good beer.

You might find this to be worth a read:
Mash Length: Overnight vs. 60 Minutes | exBEERiment Results

Basically this article suggests that an overnight mash can increase efficiency and lower final gravity, but doesn't really mess with the flavor at all.
 
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alex510

alex510

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thanks, kent-I am making a double IPA-do you think it will be to dry of a tasty for a ipa?
 

AzOr

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Another alternative is to mash and lauter at night and brew your wort in the morning.

I do this more often than not with no weird results. The only downside is that the wort will cool much lower than if you leave wort in the mash tun w grains.
 

AzOr

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It’s a really easy, low stress way to brew.
Since I have a couple of little ones at home, I start hearing my water while getting ready for dinner. At some point I mill grains and start the mash. Once the kiddos go to bed I’ll start to lauter. While that’s happening I clean up and get ready for the morning.
I usually wake up early and fire up the burner. I’m usually done by 9a or so including clean up.
I actually can’t remember the last time I brewed in one session.
 

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I do it every time now. I also do full volume mash, so there is not heating sparge in the am. Wake up, drain and boil. I only brew NE IPA now and they are better then my when I did herms.

I like breaking it up. Allows me to spend more time dealing with life and still get to enjoy brewing.

My night typically involves

- Heating sparge while weighing and crushing grain and adjusting water salts
- Star sans kegs and conical (I use ferm c02 to purge kegs)
- weight out hop additions and pack for am

Wake up at 3-4 am
- start sparging and go up stairs and make coffee
- once element is under wort, turn on and heat
- start boiling about 30 minutes after waking up
- done and cleanup up by 8-9
 

Lefou

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I use it for dry beers like Saison, Kolsch, any beer I want below 1.010. If you start with a 152 mash in, and wrap some blankets around the cooler it shouldn't drop below 135 over nite. At 152 the alpha is chomping the starch into pieces that beta can chew from both ends,making maltose. I get mashed in around 9:00 pm and awake around 5:00 am turn on the HLT and am sparging in 90 min. I got a pale ale fermented with Windsor to finish at 1.012
You can make a ridiculously dry ale using an extended mash with the right combination of highly diastatic malts. No need for an overnighter or amyloglucosidase, either. There are different methods but I've found the 145F-150F range for 90-120mins with Pilsner/two row/Vienna works well. One of my worts fermented down to a finished beer near 1.004 just before bottling. It was pretty enlightening.
 

VikeMan

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Once the starches are fully converted there will be little further changes.
This depends on what you mean by fully converted. If you mean converted to some combination of sugars and dextrins (i.e. the point at which the last starch is no longer a starch), then "lots" can change after that. The longer the mash goes, the more fermentable the wort (i.e. the more non-fermentable dextrins will be broken down into fermentable sugars), until all the enzymes have denatured. Here's some quantitative, experimental data on that:

http://braukaiser.com/documents/Affects_of_mash_parameters_on_attenuation_and_efficiency.pdf

http://www.homebrewersassociation.o...pdf/2012/1616-04 Attenuation - Gregg Doss.pdf
 
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alex510

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So after some research, I will be doing an overnight mash and a no-boil wort. using a liquid malt extract.
I have lots of question, should I keep posting here or start a new thread in a different section?
 

RM-MN

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This depends on what you mean by fully converted. If you mean converted to some combination of sugars and dextrins (i.e. the point at which the last starch is no longer a starch), then "lots" can change after that. The longer the mash goes, the more fermentable the wort (i.e. the more non-fermentable dextrins will be broken down into fermentable sugars), until all the enzymes have denatured. Here's some quantitative, experimental data on that:

http://braukaiser.com/documents/Affects_of_mash_parameters_on_attenuation_and_efficiency.pdf

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/presentations/pdf/2012/1616-04 Attenuation - Gregg Doss.pdf
It would seem that one would get a super dry beer but those who do overnight mashes don't seem to get there. There's that sneaky thing about the enzymes denaturing that stops that.
 

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I've done it many times and it works for me when I'm short on time. When its really cold out, I just pull the grain bag and set the BIAB pot out on the porch in the morning, and put it on to boil when I come home from work. If its not cold enough and you leave the grain bag in there, you'll get some nasty, stinky wort, I learned the hard way.
 
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alex510

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just got done sanitizing everything. will hop mash tomorrow 3 oz of hops and 1 pound of grain. For 3 or 4 hours at about 175 degrees.
 

VikeMan

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It would seem that one would get a super dry beer but those who do overnight mashes don't seem to get there. There's that sneaky thing about the enzymes denaturing that stops that.
I don't claim that overnight mashing results in a "super dry" beer. I agree that at some point, well before the end time implied by "overnight," effectively all the enzymes would be denatured.

Doss found about a 6% increase in attenuation between a 45 minute mash and a 90 minute mash, but didn't experiment beyond 90 minutes. Troester found a similar phenomenon, and also added 280 minutes. At 280 minutes, attenuation was higher still, but the implied curve at that point was much flatter.
 

RM-MN

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Doss found about a 6% increase in attenuation between a 45 minute mash and a 90 minute mash, but didn't experiment beyond 90 minutes. Troester found a similar phenomenon, and also added 280 minutes. At 280 minutes, attenuation was higher still, but the implied curve at that point was much flatter.
I wonder what the starting mash temp was, how well the grains were milled, and if the mash temp was maintained or if allowed to fall naturally. With my super fine milling for BIAB I don't find any real difference in fermentability between a 30 minute mash or a 60 minute. I wonder if their grains were milled coarse enough that they were still gelatinizing starches for most of the mash period. Enzymes don't get denatured until activated at normal mash periods.
 

VikeMan

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I wonder what the starting mash temp was, how well the grains were milled, and if the mash temp was maintained or if allowed to fall naturally. With my super fine milling for BIAB I don't find any real difference in fermentability between a 30 minute mash or a 60 minute. I wonder if their grains were milled coarse enough that they were still gelatinizing starches for most of the mash period. Enzymes don't get denatured until activated at normal mash periods.
The details of the two studies were different, but I wouldn't describe either crush as "super fine." You can read about the details in the links provided. I agree in principle that a finer crush should accelerate pretty much everything that happens. Of course, that implies less control over fermentability. OTOH, mash length is not the only knob available.
 

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I do BIAB with an insulated wrapped kettle. The few times I have left the mash overnight and left the grain bag in, the beers did not come out great. Especially if they dropped below 130 or so. I cant put my finger on what exactly was different, but they just didn’t wow. Also you have to heat it back up the next morning to pull the bag and that takes very careful attention on propane. Now I just get everything ready, set my bucket warmer to heat the kettle water and just mash first thing In the morning. Just seems to work better, uses less propane, and one less variable to factor in.
 
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alex510

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hi, all my new friends.:)
So some more pieces to the puzzle. At 12:46 pm north California time, I poured 5 gallons of 160 degrees water in the orange 5-gallon water cooler. the cooler has a / the nylon bag. the ingredients are .5 40 car an .25 pils 3 oz of centennial pellets hops. Not sure how long I will mash for.
I am doing research now and watching some nfl football
 
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alex510

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quick question? how important is whirlforc pill? I don't have 1. brew store closes at in 2 hours
 
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alex510

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Thank you kee so much was stressing out-I have never used it before
 
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alex510

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You know ..I live by 3 brew stores- hop tech is the only one open today/?? -everybody I know that brews beer do it over the weekend.
 
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Hellow started to boil at 6:40 pm put in 1 oz of hops also. It is not going to be a hard boil so I will like to keep between 165 and 180 degrees for an hour. going to put 2nd round of hops in 5 to 8 mins.
 

VikeMan

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Hellow started to boil at 6:40 pm put in 1 oz of hops also. It is not going to be a hard boil so I will like to keep between 165 and 180 degrees for an hour.
165-180 is not a boil. Why are you not doing a boil?
 
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alex510

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some people call it raw ale. I have to admit, it is my first time brewing this style of beer. Not sure what to expect. but so far so good. smells meh not as hoppy smell as I would like tho:(.
 
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alex510

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I mash hopped till 6:40 pm /5-hour mash. I started to boil at 6:40 pm northern California and did a hard simmer at around 160 -165 degrees for 60 mins. adding all the liquid malt extract and last set of hops in the last 10 mins with it being at 170 degrees.
 

RM-MN

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Also you have to heat it back up the next morning to pull the bag and that takes very careful attention on propane.
Why do you have to heat it up to pull the bag? The only reason I could think of is if the bag was frozen to the kettle. Otherwise just pull it.
 

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WTF. This started as an overnite,can I do it thread and has morphed into unrecognizable.
You put 3/4 of a pound in 5 gal of water to mash for 6 hours? again WTF , you can't mash LME!! So this is really a no boil BIAB extract beer, maybe should be moved!
 
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alex510

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good afternoon hotpep, All I put in the 6 hour mash is hops and 1 pound of crush grains-that is it.
 
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alex510

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l I put the yeast back in the refrigerator last night. just got done taking wort out of the keg this morning around 10:30 am. lots and lots of trub at the bottom of the brew kettle. Is this normal? , I also did not put the trub in the primary is that ok? Is the trub needed to ferment? There is about 4.755 gallons in the primary! happy with that! The smell is amazingly good!
The 1st packet of yeast open and poured in went smooth but when I looked at the bottom of the bag the yeast was all there /so shake those pack really well. 2 pack no prob.
so as of now, it is in the primary bucket. I have lots and lots of question on dry hopping / should I keep posting my questions on this thread? or move it /and where should I move it too?
ps. I have a small bag of sugar leftover that has the words prime sugar written on it. Is this bag for bottling?
 
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