Those that Both Bottle and Keg

[SeeRoe]

When I first got into this hobby a couple years ago, I went straight for kegging. Figured I'd never want to be bothered bottling. Now, I want to brew more and more. I also want to brew smaller batches or not occupy 1/2 of the keg spots on a beer I know will sit around for awhile (if not a session beer).

So, being that I do have the ability to keg what is easier? Go with a bottling bucket? Or bottle straight from the keg? I could also carbonate with sugar within the keg, cool, and then bottle the following day so I never really have to occupy a spot on the keg.

Also, being that I will only be doing Maybe 100-200 bottles a year will a simple wing style capper suffice? Or should I splurge for a higher quality bench capper.

Looking for some opinions from those who have learned the hard or correct way!

 

[bonsai4tim]

I started bottling, got tired of the wing capper after 1 batch (48 bottles). Just started kegging this year. Force carb and bottle from the keg is doable, but slightly messier than priming and bottle conditioning (at least for me).

I still bottle almost all of the belgian style and higher gravity brews (over 8% abv)---makes it easier to store & age. Also easier to try one and see where it is at.

tim

 

[beernutz]

I brew a 10 gallon batch about once a month and about 3 or 4 times a year I'll keg half and bottle the other half. If you, like me, are only filling a couple hundred bottles a year I'd stick with the winged capper. If you set up a production line it goes pretty fast. Still a pain compared to kegging but I've yet to come up with an effective and inexpensive system for bottling from kegs. I'd like to try a bowie bottler based on the good reviews I've read for them but apparently they're no longer available.

 

[dyqik]

I'd say you'll want to do a mixture of bottling off of the keg, and of bottle conditioning from a bottling bucket.

For long aging beers, I just bottle with a bottling bucket, priming sugar (and fresh yeast if the beer has been bulk aging), for the reasons given above. Bottling off a keg I use for a) bottling to take elsewhere/giveaway and b) bottling to empty out a keg so I can age the last part of a batch and get a new batch on that tap.

A growler filler attachment for your taps and a Biermuncher counterpressure setup is great for filling bottles (chill the bottles and reduce serving pressure first - and remember to sample a glass before filling to "chill the tap"). A wing capper is fine for say 10-20 bottles from the bottom half of a keg. I also find a wing capper is fine for a 48-54 bottle batch as well, but YMMV.

 

[Clarke]

I have been bottling for 6 years, brew every two weeks, I have lots and lots of bottles. I use a wing capper without any issue. I just got my first keg 2 weeks ago and am on my first keg beer. I plan to bottle from the keg, google bottling from keg and it is an easy set up, if you are only going with 100-200 bottles a year, this is peanuts, so keep it simple with a wing capper. At this point what do you want? Force carb your beer from the keg and then bottle, you get one type of beer... Sugar carb your beer and age, is a different kind of beer, IMO... Bottle buckets are cheap, and so are bottle wands. Do all angles, keg, sugar, force carb, bottle from keg, bucket... It's all an adventure.

 

[JosephN]

I have been bottling for 6 years, brew every two weeks, I have lots and lots of bottles. I use a wing capper without any issue. I just got my first keg 2 weeks ago and am on my first keg beer. I plan to bottle from the keg, google bottling from keg and it is an easy set up, if you are only going with 100-200 bottles a year, this is peanuts, so keep it simple with a wing capper. At this point what do you want? Force carb your beer from the keg and then bottle, you get one type of beer... Sugar carb your beer and age, is a different kind of beer, IMO... Bottle buckets are cheap, and so are bottle wands. Do all angles, keg, sugar, force carb, bottle from keg, bucket... It's all an adventure.

To ask your opinion about bottle conditioning with sugar. I've been using a few online priming calculators and my beers have seemed overly carbed, causing some to foam out of the top. I used to enter the current temp of my beer, which I "think" seemed to work, but I've been told that I need to input the highest temp it got before bottling. I have found this method to require nearly twice or as much as 3 times the sugar and higher carbonation levels. Do you personally have a general rule as to how much sugar to add per gallon? Also once your bottles have been conditioning at around 70F for several weeks, what do you do with them after that? I have been keeping them all at room temp, and I wonder if this is playing a role in over carbonation.

 

[normonster]

I have had a similar experience. When I want to bottle now I generally use the beergun/keg method but sometimes I use Morebeer carbonation tabs straight into bottles (don't have a bottle bucket to mix sugar). Both methods work well IMO. If 1 gallon legs were cheap that'd be better but the beer gun and occasional carb drop methods are good enough.

 

[jleiii]

BYO has a good writeup on "bottle conditioning".

The temperature does come into play as some CO2 will remain in solution after fermentation, and the amount is related to temperature. I don't believe that for homebrewers this amount will be consistent though. I know that once the fermentation is complete I don't worry so much about tight temperature control, and the longer it sits the less CO2 will remain in solution, unless it's very cold. So handling and time become a factor. I sometimes will not get to bottling for a week after it's ready, and I'll bet there is a lot less CO2 than there was when the secondary was done.
For lagers I can see it escaping as I transfer it to the bottling bucket. Sometimes it's still near lager temp (~35), other times it's already up to room temp before I get to it. I have relied on Beersmith carbonation data and been pretty happy with the results. Most have been 4-5 ozs (liquid not weight) per 5 gallon batch. I have yet to have a gusher, except a couple when the beer was questionable, or may not have fermented out fully before bottling. Longer bottle aging made a few over carbed too. I've found that even ones that were perfect in the short term have overcarbed when they are given away and a forgotten for a month or 6. OH! you still have one of them.... Ack.... it's beyond the freshness date and a gusher.

I've also had a couple not carbonate fully, but not sure exactly why with these. My lagers have done fairly well without any bottling yeast, but I allow them a minimum of 30 days to carbonate.

I've bottled an untold number over 3+ years, and got a bench capper a year into things, but went back to the wing capper. It was flimsy (typical one you find at any LHBS), and really needs to be lashed down. I tired of it, and due to being flimsy I have had a few caps not go down flat and seal properly. Nothing more depressing than grabbing a flat beer from the fridge!
The only issues I had with the wing capper is that some bottles don't have the ideal ring around the neck for it to grip and it slips off time and again. That was the primary reason I got the bench capper. I was getting an unlimited supply of Franziskaner 500ml bottles, and the wing capper just could not grip them. I eventually gave them away.
The bench capper also has issues on range. While it is adjustable, I had shims jammed into the adjuster to keep it from flopping back and forth and making crooked caps. A very sloppy fit. With the variations in bottle height I either had to pre sort bottles, or arrange them in size order as I bottled so I only had to make 1 height change along the way.

I recently started kegging, and have filled a handful of bottles with a picnic tap and a bottling wand stuck in it (perfect fit too!). While it is a little messy it works well. I would not do more than a 6 or 2 due to the losses. I would put together a counter pressure filler if I decide to bottle a greater number, and since I can only support 2 kegs in my cooler, that may not be so far off. But, I don't often have more than 2 batches on hand at any one time.

 

[Clarke]

To ask your opinion about bottle conditioning with sugar. I've been using a few online priming calculators and my beers have seemed overly carbed, causing some to foam out of the top. I used to enter the current temp of my beer, which I "think" seemed to work, but I've been told that I need to input the highest temp it got before bottling. I have found this method to require nearly twice or as much as 3 times the sugar and higher carbonation levels. Do you personally have a general rule as to how much sugar to add per gallon? Also once your bottles have been conditioning at around 70F for several weeks, what do you do with them after that? I have been keeping them all at room temp, and I wonder if this is playing a role in over carbonation.

To be honest I don't know the science or the rules, I have only experience. I did read that you should calculate from the temp of when the beer was at peek fermentation, that being said, I always prime from the temp my beer is at when I bottle, I use this site to calculate my suger:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator

I always use regular table (cane) sugar, and you should let your bottles sit for at least 3 weeks before sampling the first bottle, I usually wait about a week, but that's me. I find that my beer is ready to drink (depending on style) on average 2 months later then they just get better from there, again depending on style.

I have only ever had one beer foam over, it was just recently a strawberry sour. I had way too much sugar in it, I made a strawberry sauce with 10 table spoons of sugar, well my wife did, and for some bright idea I decided to use this as my priming agent. Well after 2 months I had nothing but geiser, I threw some away because I needed the bottles, but I let some sit and 6 months later it stopped geisering and turned out to be one of the best strawberry sours I have ever tasted, of my own making anyway.

So I really don't know the rules I just brew by trial and error, I am not scared to lose a batch, I am in it for the hobby not the beer.

hope my rambling helps, best of luck

 

[JosephN]

To be honest I don't know the science or the rules, I have only experience. I did read that you should calculate from the temp of when the beer was at peek fermentation, that being said, I always prime from the temp my beer is at when I bottle, I use this site to calculate my suger:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator

I always use regular table (cane) sugar, and you should let your bottles sit for at least 3 weeks before sampling the first bottle, I usually wait about a week, but that's me. I find that my beer is ready to drink (depending on style) on average 2 months later then they just get better from there, again depending on style.

I have only ever had one beer foam over, it was just recently a strawberry sour. I had way too much sugar in it, I made a strawberry sauce with 10 table spoons of sugar, well my wife did, and for some bright idea I decided to use this as my priming agent. Well after 2 months I had nothing but geiser, I threw some away because I needed the bottles, but I let some sit and 6 months later it stopped geisering and turned out to be one of the best strawberry sours I have ever tasted, of my own making anyway.

So I really don't know the rules I just brew by trial and error, I am not scared to lose a batch, I am in it for the hobby not the beer.

hope my rambling helps, best of luck

I have used that site before also and it has worked well. One thing that I just learned is that when I take a warm bottled beer and only chill it for 3-4 hrs then no matter how much sugar I added it appear to be too carbonated. But if I chill a beer from the same batch for 24hrs then it comes out just perfect. Now these are bottles that have been packaged within the past month, and the longer they sit the more normalized they seem to become. Oh and what I have also noticed, based on a spreadsheet that i just made with info concerning carbing my previous batches, is that I use anywhere from .50 to 1oz of corn sugar per gallon of finish beer. Most of the time .75oz per gallon is the perfect amount for most styles.

PS I would love to try a strawberry sour. Maybe we can talk about how you made that through a PM..

 

[Clarke]

I have used that site before also and it has worked well. One thing that I just learned is that when I take a warm bottled beer and only chill it for 3-4 hrs then no matter how much sugar I added it appear to be too carbonated. But if I chill a beer from the same batch for 24hrs then it comes out just perfect. Now these are bottles that have been packaged within the past month, and the longer they sit the more normalized they seem to become. Oh and what I have also noticed, based on a spreadsheet that i just made with info concerning carbing my previous batches, is that I use anywhere from .50 to 1oz of corn sugar per gallon of finish beer. Most of the time .75oz per gallon is the perfect amount for most styles.

PS I would love to try a strawberry sour. Maybe we can talk about how you made that through a PM..

I have never experienced a different carbonation from my beer from chill time. I do a variety of things, before I got my beer fridge and I still practice this because my fridge only holds so many beers, is I take a room temp beer and wrap it in a wet paper towel and place it in the freezer for about 30 minutes, chills fast and I have the same bubbles as if I pulled it from the fridge, so I am curious of your circumstance. As for you sugar measurements, again, I really don't know, I just follow that site and us cane sugar. Next batch why not you give it a try (cane sugar and that site), you can blame me if it f'es up but nothing ventured nothing gained.

As for my strawberry sour, I can definitely sling you my recipe, though I am on my second attempt and it is not turning out as well, too hot for some reason. I will be buying some more strawberries and adding a bit more sugar to it tonight.

Right now I have just cold crashed it for a week to drop the yeast and racked it to a secondary with the strawberry sauce. I am not using it as a priming agent this time for I want to keg it for a party. so I cold crashed to drop the yeast, wracked it, now holding it a couple of days to make sure no fermentation takes place but upon sampling it was weak on strawberry flavor and a bit bitter as well as too hot, so I am hoping that if I add some more strawberry sauce and sugar I can balance it out with a little back sweetening.

I will let you know my results, I am still trying to figure this recipe out

 

[MarkKF]

I started with bottle prIming. Got the big red plastic capper. I make 20-30 gal. a year, that's 200-300 bottles. I switched to kegging but I still bottle it all, off the keg. The capping has never really bothered me. It's the actual bottle filling I grow tire of. P. S. I love my beer gun. Works great.