This might sound like a dumb question... But why would one use acidulated malt/ sauermalz?

[Henkie040]

So hear me out... You might answer: to lower the PH of your mash. I get that. But I already treat my mash water with lactic acid to get it to the right PH of around 5,2. Isn't that way easier than measuring the right amount of acidulated malt, which has also been treated with lactid acid?

So what is it's function of the malt exactly?

And as a follow-up pondering... Suppose I want to give my beer an acidulated twist. For instance: this Friday I'm brewing a Grisette. I'd like to intensify the farmhouse vibe by creating a very subtle acidic touch. So, my current recipe has 8% acidulated malt in it. But when I mash that in, and measure the PH, I'll likely get the PH I usually get after treating the mash with lactic acid. Adding BOTH the lactic acid and the 8% acidulated malt will make for a mash that is too low in PH.

Or do I do the mash with the acidulated malt, get the proper mash PH that way, and then later add some lactic acid in the boil/ whirlpool? Fine, but that brings me back to the beginning! Because: why not use lactic acid for the right mash PH, and then some more to the whirlpool to get to a slightly more sour end result? In other words: what does the acidulated malt contribute??

I hope this makes sense.

Thx.

 

[TheMadKing]

Acid malt is treated with lactic acid bacteria. It imparts a subtle but unique flavor that you can't get from 88% lactic acid. Call it a more complex and sharper grainy tang. It's really only detectable to my palate in a kolsch helles or pilsner

Otherwise they serve the same function.

 

[Protos]

You must use Acidulated Malt for acidification only when you're set to comply with the German Puriry Law, which forbids you to add liquid Lactic Acid or any other chemicals for that matter. If you're not voluntarily bound by the Law (which is the case, f.ex. when you're recreating a historical recipe to a tee), you are free to use Lactic Acid instead of Sauermalz.

Another reason I (rarely) use Sauermalz in place of liquid Acid is when the grist or the water require a higher-than-usual percent of acidifying agent (like 4% in Sauermalz equivalent instead of the usual 1% to 2%). The Lactic Acid I have is a cheap Chinese-made brand so it has an unpleasant odour and twang, which at higher quantities could manifest itself in the beer, so to avoid it I employ the nobler and cleaner German Acidulated Malt.

 

[Henkie040]

Acid malt is treated with lactic acid bacteria. It imparts a subtle but unique flavor that you can't get from 88% lactic acid. Call it a more complex and sharper grainy tang. It's really only detectable to my palate in a kolsch helles or pilsner

Otherwise they serve the same function.

Interesting. So it is different in effect.

You must use Acidulated Malt for acidification only when you're set to comply with the German Puriry Law, which forbids you to add liquid Lactic Acid or any other chemicals for that matter. If you're not voluntarily bound by the Law (which is the case, f.ex. when you're recreating a historical recipe to a tee), you are free to use Lactic Acid instead of Sauermalz.

Another reason I (rarely) use Sauermalz in place of liquid Acid is when the grist or the water require a higher-than-usual percent of acidifying agent (like 4% in Sauermalz equivalent instead of the usual 1% to 2%). The Lactic Acid I have is a cheap Chinese-made brand so it has an unpleasant odour and twang, which at higher quantities could manifest itself in the beer, so to avoid it I employ the nobler and cleaner German Acidulated Malt.

Ah, so it's for Germans still abiding by the Gebot. I have no such limitations. But your second paragraph is food for thought. Kinda similar to what was said by the person that I've quoted above. I think that that is definitely something to take into account!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Water Chemistry – How to Build Your Water – Bertus Brewery

From the end of the article:

[Author of article states]: Acid malt, calcium chloride, and gypsum are all I ever use, and I’ve made plenty of great beers.

 

[Henkie040]

Water Chemistry – How to Build Your Water – Bertus Brewery

From the end of the article

Will read article, but this quote alone is not an argument for using acidulated malt instead of lactic acid.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Will read article, but this quote alone is not an argument for using acidulated malt instead of lactic acid.

It's not an argument. It's how one person uses ingredients to make good beer.

 

[Henkie040]

It's not an argument. It's how one person uses ingredients to make good beer.

Of course! And that's cool. But it doesn't solve my conundrum. I appreciate the reply and article though!

 

[Protos]

I think the preference for Sauermalz over Lactic Acid boils down to the next simple rule of thumb:
- you need it when you abide by the RHGB
- you need it when you have to use a higher percentage of acidifier in a light/delicate beer

Otherwise you don't really need it.
Although Sauermalz, made at malting plants specifically for brewing, is in its very nature way nicer than any liquid Acid made of God knows what for all-around purposes. So, when you want to brew a really good beer from the best ingredients possible, Sauermalz is to be preferred, albeit not essential.

 

[Henkie040]

I think the preference for Sauermalz over Lactic Acid boils down to the next simple rule of thumb:
- you need it when you abide by the RHGB
- you need it when you have to use a higher percentage of acidifier in a light/delicate beer

Otherwise you don't really need it.
Although Sauermalz, made at malting plants specifically for brewing, is in its very nature way nicer than any liquid Acid made of God knows what for all-around purposes. So, when you want to brew a really good beer from the best ingredients possible, Sauermalz is to be preferred, albeit not essential.

This makes total sense and is very helpful. Thank you.

 

[TheMadKing]

nicer than any liquid Acid made of God knows what for all-around purposes.

It's made from 88% lactic acid and water... lactic acid is lactic acid, whether it comes from a bacteria or chemically derived from acetaldehyde.

I do agree that the other components in Sauermalz (malic acid, acetic acid, various esters and ketones) produce a more favorable flavor profile, but that is because it's the product of an unrefined lactobacillus fermentation and can add a certain level of complexity. Careful not to conflate "laboratory chemical = bad" and "natural = good", quite often the reverse is true.

 

[AlexKay]

I've been wanting to experiment with Sauergut, but that's a whole different kettle of ... er ... wort.

 

[Protos]

It's made from 88% lactic acid and water... lactic acid is lactic acid, whether it comes from a bacteria or chemically derived from acetaldehyde.

Maybe yours... Mine, it was certainly made of fermented monkeys soaked in pickled bats juice. Not that I know the scent of fermented monkeys or pickled bats juice but I'm sure if I ever encounter any of those I'll instantly recognize it as the whiff I was getting from my cheap jar of 80% Chinese Lactic Acid

 

[Henkie040]

Maybe yours... Mine, it was certainly made of fermented monkeys soaked in pickled bats juice. Not that I know the scent of fermented monkeys or pickled bats juice but I'm sure if I ever encounter any of those I'll instantly recognize it as the whiff I was getting from my cheap jar of 80% Chinese Lactic Acid

Fermented Monkeys.
Pickled Bats.
Chinese Lactic.

You've just come up with three great names for craft beers.

 

[Protos]

All three Hazy IPAs.
No other options.

 

[Henkie040]

All three Hazy IPAs.
No other options.

Chinese Lactic might be a kettle sour with lichée fruits

 

[Protos]

Yeah! How could I forget...
And also we need to reserve one for a Pastry Stout. Which one? The Monkeys? Or the Bats?

 

[mac_1103]

Fermented Monkeys.

I think I'll go with Fermented by Monkeys. To keep the PETA folks off my back. They don't seem to care about bats, so you're probably good there.

It's a Trappist ale of course. Or maybe a trapeze ale.

 

[mud1070]

It's a Trappist ale of course. Or maybe a trapeze ale.

- lol

A few of my recipes, pilsners for example, I couldn't get the correct pH from my source water with just lactic acid alone. I do find the budget lactic acid to have a strange smell, that may impart some off-putting smell/taste in the finished product.
I also find that lactic acid can be expensive and some BEST Acidulated doesn't add much to the grain bill.