Thinking, Did InBev buy into malt?

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bracconiere

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Got to thinking, why the hell can i not afford to even make my own beer with store bought malt now?

i HAVE to go back to malting my own now, because spending $45 a 10 gallon batch would bankrupt me. But i was alright with $25 or so......


so i gotta go back to $8. or just start drinking cheap fermented apple juice.

Anyone know if InBev bought any big maltsters or anything?
 

NickTheGreat

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I'm all for DIY'ing things, but malting your own grain seems like a lot of work. Interesting, but a lot of work.
 
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bracconiere

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Presumably, this would be something in the news and subject to heavy litigation/scrutiny. Vertical integration of the supply chain and all that.
?? like when inbev bought NB? and i did find an article their buying up AgTech....or something like that


I'm all for DIY'ing things, but malting your own grain seems like a lot of work. Interesting, but a lot of work.
It's not any harder then making a starter for a batch....just think of it as a barley starter....


as far as you go @Sammy86 the last sip of the second beer on tuesday, tasted GREAT! i think the powerful people are out to get me/you!

and i very well might wear one of those, on this last one i got in the fridge! (as a joke, maybe the 'powerful people' will find enough humor in it)
 

Sammy86

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as far as you go @Sammy86 the last sip of the second beer on tuesday, tasted GREAT! i think the powerful people are out to get me/you!

and i very well might wear one of those, on this last one i got in the fridge! (as a joke, maybe the 'powerful people' will find enough humor in it)
Technically, being a teacher I am a government employee so I don't necessarily believe they're coming after me entirely...they sure tried early in my career but then I learned how to play the game! :ban:
 

cyberbackpacker

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They were purchasing entire hop farms ~4 years ago. A brewery that I worked for (producing ~40k barrels a year) had orders for large quantities of some new hops with a South African farm. Out of nowhere the orders were cancelled. When they inquired, it was because they had been bought out!
 

bleme

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You could be seeing price fluctuations that have nothing to do with InBev also, like how lumber prices went up 300% this year...
 

moreb33rplz

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Wait, how is a ten gallon batch costing $45? My LHBS sells 50-55 lb sacks for $50 of some malt. Are they just super high gravity
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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Technically, being a teacher I am a government employee so I don't necessarily believe they're coming after me entirely...they sure tried early in my career but then I learned how to play the game! :ban:
i was talking about the illicit drug dealers. but i know not to talk to much about that...

Do you have any evidence to back that up? From researching it doesn't appear they do.
i saw on some documentary channel, i thought they malted in house?

You could be seeing price fluctuations that have nothing to do with InBev also, like how lumber prices went up 300% this year...
maybe, which is why i was wondering. i just know in one year it went from where i could buy pale malt for like $1, then $1.3, now it's $1.8 and this happened in one year....
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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Wait, how is a ten gallon batch costing $45? My LHBS sells 50-55 lb sacks for $50 of some malt. Are they just super high gravity

buying malt is $2 a pound over the internet, i shoot for 1.060 OG.....not really big.


could be fuel price and shipping also?

edit: if i ever checked NB for prices, i would have been curious who raised it first...
 
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day_trippr

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$45? Haha! I have 10 gallon batches of neipas that are nearly double that in cost. It's mostly not the grain cost - I buy base malt by the bag direct from BSG and it's roughly a buck a pound - it's using a crap ton of hops :)

As to the question earlier: I was trying to figure out grain and malt sourcing from an AB InBev annual report but they're so nuanced it's difficult to draw any conclusions. They repeatedly refer to "direct farmers" but never define the term. I have a feeling they actually own nothing and get everything via contract...

Cheers!
 

MaxStout

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buying malt is $2 a pound over the internet, i shoot for 1.060 OG.....not really big.


could be fuel price and shipping also?

edit: if i ever checked NB for prices, i would have been curious who raised it first...
Is there a brew club in your area that might do group buys?

You could do some partigyle brewing and get 2 or maybe 3 beers from one grain bill to stretch your resources.
 

DBhomebrew

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I know Arizona is a big state with a whole lot of nothing between towns; you could easily be 3 or so hours from a decent homebrew supply shop. How far are you from Phoenix or Tucson? Worth the trip to pick up a half dozen bags at a time?
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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Is there a brew club in your area that might do group buys?

You could do some partigyle brewing and get 2 or maybe 3 beers from one grain bill to stretch your resources.

there is a N.S.LHBS in tucson i bought a few bags a few years ago from....but the gas to drive there would be a killer, to make it worth while for me, i'd have to buy like 10 bags!


malting my own isn't really a big deal, i was trying to figure out if InBev's hand was why malt is going up....

i malted 100% of my own from 2016 to 2020....so i'm used to it...
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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I know Arizona is a big state with a whole lot of nothing between towns; you could easily be 3 or so hours from a decent homebrew supply shop. How far are you from Phoenix or Tucson? Worth the trip to pick up a half dozen bags at a time?

this isn't nessasarily a cheap houch thread....i can always make cheap hooch, but i like beer for the vitamins! apple juice is still $2.99 a gallon at the super market, but i have trouble meeting my folate needs with it...
 

DBhomebrew

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this isn't nessasarily a cheap houch thread....i can always make cheap hooch, but i like beer for the vitamins! apple juice is still $2.99 a gallon at the super market, but i have trouble meeting my folate needs with it...
Totally. I'm talking economical hooch, not cheap.
 

Knightshade

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?? like when inbev bought NB? and i did find an article their buying up AgTech....or something like that
That is different..but I do see where you're going with it. With wage increases, the cost has to be passed to somebody....

You could be seeing price fluctuations that have nothing to do with InBev also, like how lumber prices went up 300% this year...
Fence contractor friend of mine mentioned that to me the other day...cheaper to get a vinyl fence vs. real wood right now...like ridiculously cheaper.

As to @bracconiere's actual question, I just remembered that my Uncle works for AB in St Louis. Too bad I haven't talked to him in 10+ years or so, and he'd probably want something in exchange just for attempting to find an answer to a relatively simple question...schmuck...
 

MaxStout

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I think a company the size of AB InBev sources from a lot of directions. Probably get a large share of their grain in futures from a number of contracted producers--more certainty there. But I bet their purchasing people do some spot market buying as well, to meet immediate needs and to cover for shortages, etc. Those shifting spot markets could affect smaller customers (i.e., homebrewing suppliers)

I can't recall the source, but I seem to remember reading Great Western in Idaho shipping a huge amount of product to InBev.
 

camonick

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Paging @grampamark. He's in the grain-production business. He might have some thoughts on this market.

I don’t know about the barley market specifically, but farm commodities as a whole are higher than previous years. There are many factors that drive commodity prices (global supplies, import/export demand, weather trends, etc) The higher prices for homebrew ingredients at the retail level are probably influenced more by higher fuel/ transportation costs, wages, insurance, etc. I doubt very much whether or not AB owns any malt houses has anything to do with increased homebrew ingredients. What we do as hobby is of little importance to their business model.
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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What we do as hobby is of little importance to their business model.

i doubt that! if i was buying beer i be going through a 18 pack every day, spending like $15 a day on it......in my experience drug dealers HATE DIY'ers.......if not just for the money, so that they can be called gods....
 

day_trippr

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should i become a customer? i see they don't sell to the public?
Well, they do, actually, and it can't be too onerous because my friend and fellow townie Niles a few miles away is a registered BSG buyer.
All "the public" needs is to fill out an application - and probably have some kind of reseller license with the state...

Cheers!
 

day_trippr

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Paging @grampamark. He's in the grain-production business. He might have some thoughts on this market.
iirc, he has stated that barley production for brewing is a tiny portion of overall grain production in the USA. I have no reason to doubt his viewpoint...

Cheers!

[edit] Looking at average annual crop production across a five year slice from 2015 through 2019:

Corn: 14 billion bushels
Soybeans: 4 billion bushels
Wheat (all kinds): 1.8 billion bushels
Barley: 160 million bushels
Oats: 53 million bushels

So barley is ~two orders of magnitude smaller than corn and one order below wheat...

Cheers!
 
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MaxStout

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iirc, he has stated that barley production for brewing is a tiny portion of overall grain production in the USA. I have no reason to doubt his viewpoint...

Cheers!

[edit] Looking at average annual crop production across a five year slice from 2015 through 2019:

Corn: 14 billion bushels
Soybeans: 4 billion bushels
Wheat (all kinds): 1.8 billion bushels
Barley: 160 million bushels
Oats: 53 million bushels

So barley is ~two orders of magnitude smaller than corn and one order below wheat...

Cheers!
lol
I think we were talking about the dynamics within the barley market (and how it may affect prices we're seeing), not its market share vs other grains.
 
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bracconiere

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lol
I think we were talking about the dynamics within the barley market (and how it may affect prices we're seeing), not its market share vs other grains.

that's what i wanted to know, i think InBev is trying to discourage homebrewing, by trying to prove "the other homebrewers" that like saying making your own isn't cheaper, and keep others on BMC.....

edit: i'm pretty sure they fought against it being even legal.....
 

day_trippr

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Well, ok, but there's only so much land to service the different markets, and I'm betting growers tend to move towards the most viable markets when deciding what to plant...

Cheers!
 
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bracconiere

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Well, ok, but there's only so much land to service the different markets, and I'm betting growers tend to move towards the most viable markets when deciding what to plant...

Cheers!

took the words right out of grampamark's mouth. but i still think inbev is manipulating the market. they wouldn't have gotten into NB, then out, i think they just found a better way. i'm curious how their doing it?

trying to get a thick one of these...made out of aluminum!
 

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day_trippr

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I honestly think the whole Northern Brewer acquisition by "ZX Ventures" was an epic screw-up that didn't take long for them to realize.
They had literally no business being in that business. Zero. Huge mistake...

Cheers!
 

madscientist451

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Anyone know if InBev bought any big maltsters or anything?
They've been malting their own grain for a long time. I thought they used to malt it right at the breweries, but perhaps that has changed. This is from Jess Newman ABInBev Director of US agronomy:

“We are highly vertically integrated into agriculture,” she says. “We breed our own barley varieties, we direct contract our own seed, and bring it into our own seed facilities. We own grain elevators in three different states and malt plants in two states, and we brew our own beer and take it to consumers. It’s a complete ‘seed to sip’ process.”

Source:

If you want to bring down the cost of a batch of beer, buy some adjuncts that are cheaper than malted barley, like rice or corn.
I think you can still brew 10 gallons for less than $20 of ingredients.
 
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Sammy86

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They've been malting their own grain for a long time. I thought they used to malt it right at the breweries, but perhaps that has changed. This is from Jess Newman ABInBev Director of US agronomy:

“We are highly vertically integrated into agriculture,” she says. “We breed our own barley varieties, we direct contract our own seed, and bring it into our own seed facilities. We own grain elevators in three different states and malt plants in two states, and we brew our own beer and take it to consumers. It’s a complete ‘seed to sip’ process.”

Source:
Learn something new every day!

@day_trippr I was looking at that annual report as well and was left with more questions than answers after looking through about 50 pages.
 

day_trippr

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Right? It's like they had someone with a phd in "obfuscation" edit the one I saw (think it was fy2020).

Anyway...It would be smart of AB to have enough silo capacity to provide significant elasticity for dealing with seasonal or even annual yield issues while servicing their alleged malting facilities (the existence of which I only have that statement - I can't find a single sign of such an endeavor anywhere else).

Otherwise, that article reads like AB controls the seed genetics but entirely contracts out the growing/harvesting...

Cheers!
 
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bracconiere

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I honestly think the whole Northern Brewer acquisition by "ZX Ventures" was an epic screw-up that didn't take long for them to realize.
They had literally no business being in that business. Zero. Huge mistake...

Cheers!
i think i'm king crazy, and when they bought Miller/Coors, and had me decide to learn to malt my own. They backed off even trying to cut me off from malt.....but now they're trying to jack up the price. "Never Give Up, Never Surrender!" i'll keep fighting the good fight till i die from it, whatever the cause works out to be! :mug:

I think you can still brew 10 gallons for less than $20 of ingredients.
yeah i think a 20lb bag of white rice is still $8 at walmart, but none of the garden stores carry 50lb bales of rice hulls here....and sparging 20lbs of white rice takes a bucket full of hulls! lol

i know how to make cheap "ethanol"! but i like my beer. and i got back into the habbit of buying malt, then the price skyrocketed! irked me....
 
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