Thinking About Getting A Coffee Urn To Use As A Hot Liquor Tank

[Schlenkerla]

I keep thinking on and off about buying a commercial grade coffee urn as a Hot Liquor Tank (HLT).

I typically brew week days and its usually right after work. I'm thinking of how I could get my water hot and ready to go right as I get home.

I usually do this; weight out and crack the grain and then measure out the strike water and mash water the day before. I come home the next day crack a beer and turn on the electric stove top burners for the strike water and mash water. The mash water is on high or 10 anywhere to 3 to 5 gallons trying to get it to a boil. The strike water is on 5 climbing slowly to 165F. Typically less than 3 gallons.

The mash water is at the target temp before the strike water. I dump the mash water into my Mash Lauter Tun (MLT) as a preheat. Then dump it into a 5 gallon round cooler HLT. Then prop it up on two milk crates so its gravity feed to the MLT. I add the grain to the MLT and add the strike water. Then mash, recirculate mash-out, and sparge.

Was looking at a 20L Urn or 100 Cup Urn. Thinking I could turn this on in the morning or use a outlet timer around 2 pm to heat up to 165F. After I add my strike water raise the temp on my HLT to 180F.

What do you guys think?

 

[Schlenkerla]

Google Search for 20L Water Boilers.

This would only work for the HLT mash out temps for $68.

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/av...nless-steel-coffee-urn-1500w/177CU110ETL.html

This would do both strike and mash out for $148.

https://www.katom.com/122-WB100.htm...NIuwM60PW2Vib-lkEiM5u5WhJBZv0cKgaAuhpEALw_wcB

 

[madscientist451]

I also do some after work brews. I have to get up early to leave for work, so I don't want to be up late brewing. Have your strike water measured out and ready to go. Don't worry about the sparge water, you can deal with that while the mash is going on.
Use hot tap water to pre-heat the mash tun. You can speed up heating your strike water by splitting the amount and using your 2 pots, put the temp on max, put a thermometer in and keep an eye on it. A thermometer with an alarm comes in handy:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0001BFJ54/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Or, if one of your pots will fit in the oven, you can use that to get your strike water hot if you have a "time bake" function as part of the stove controls. You'll have to experiment with what works for you with the equipment you have.
I've also thought about adding a coffee urn for heating water but decided I really don't need it.

 

[murphyslaw]

Grainfather makes one. https://www.homebrewing.org/48-Gallon-Sparge-Water-Heater_p_6655.html

 

[madscientist451]

Yeah, but do you really need to spend $160 to heat up some water?

 

[Schlenkerla]

Yeah, but do you really need to spend $160 to heat up some water?

Probably not. I keep thinking if I can get it for less than $100.....maybe. I'm probably better off upgrading my 8.5 gal HDPE Ale Pales to a 7 gal SS Brewtech Brew Buckets with money I have to spend.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Grainfather makes one. https://www.homebrewing.org/48-Gallon-Sparge-Water-Heater_p_6655.html

That grainfather looks like a rebranded Avantco with the added potentiometer for added temp control.

 

[murphyslaw]

Probably not. I keep thinking if a can get it less than $100.....maybe. I'm probably better off upgrading my 8.5 gal HDPE Ale Pales to a 7 gal SS Brewtech Brew Buckets with money I have to spend.

I was trying to find a coffee urn to use as an hlt but the big ones were far more expensive than I expected and you've still got to build a controller for most. You end up not far from the grainfather sparge water heater--like the $150 one posted above.

I ended up getting a $20 bucket heater. Works great for my purposes.

I'm not sure that would work for you though. I heat all my water to strike temp, then use the bucket heater to go from strike to mash out. I don't think it has enough juice to get to mash out temps on its own from tap temp. And heating the whole volume would cost you time. It works on my grainfather bc I can set it to heat before I wake up.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I was trying to find a coffee urn to use as an hlt but the big ones were far more expensive than I expected and you've still got to build a controller for most. You end up not far from the grainfather sparge water heater--like the $150 one posted above.

I ended up getting a $20 bucket heater. Works great for my purposes.

I'm not sure that would work for you though. I heat all my water to strike temp, then use the bucket heater to go from strike to mash out. I don't think it has enough juice to get to mash out temps on its own from tap temp. And heating the whole volume would cost you time. It works on my grainfather bc I can set it to heat before I wake up.

So you use a Grainfather. How do you like it? I've been looking to upgrade aging fermentors. Been using the same ones for 12 years. Been thinking of SS fermentors and trying get away from handling 5 gallons of boiling liquid. I'm stuck in an apartment so space is a premium. Haven't pulled the trigger on new equipment lately. My last major expense was adding Nitro and Nitro faucets to my Keezer last year.

 

[murphyslaw]

So you use a Grainfather. How do you like it? I've been looking to upgrade aging fermentors. Been using the same ones for 12 years. Been thinking of SS fermentors and trying get away from handling 5 gallons of boiling liquid. I'm stuck in an apartment so space is a premium. Haven't pulled the trigger on new equipment lately. My last major expense was adding Nitro and Nitro faucets to my Keezer last year.

I've made 4 or 5 batches on it so far and really like it. I wanted to go electric so I could brew indoors, get more precise temp control, and simplify my equipment. It's certainly a space saver, too. Part of me would have preferred to design a new kalclone and tweak every detail, but this is smartly designed and easy to use.

Upgrading fermenters is probably my next big purchase. I like the SS brewbuckets and new anvil fermenter. But I recently got 2 fermonsters, which work just fine.

 

[BBQB]

But I wouldn’t want all of my beers to taste like coffee

 

[schematix]

seems like a good candidate for a thermostat and an electric heating element.

maybe add some bluetooth or wifi integration.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Rather than doing a separate preheat of your mash tun, I find it much simpler to add the strike water 5-10 degrees high and let it fall to strike temp.

Perhaps a small under sink insta hot water heater if you looking for quick hot water...

 

[Schlenkerla]

I've made 4 or 5 batches on it so far and really like it. I wanted to go electric so I could brew indoors, get more precise temp control, and simplify my equipment. It's certainly a space saver, too. Part of me would have preferred to design a new kalclone and tweak every detail, but this is smartly designed and easy to use.

Upgrading fermenters is probably my next big purchase. I like the SS brewbuckets and new anvil fermenter. But I recently got 2 fermonsters, which work just fine.

Look what showed up at my door today.

 

[murphyslaw]

Look what showed up at my door today.

View attachment 566861

Very nice! Do you know if they can hold a little pressure? My hangup on buying a fermenter is that I want to be able to add some pressure so I can cold crash without sucking back 02.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Very nice! Do you know if they can hold a little pressure? My hangup on buying a fermenter is that I want to be able to add some pressure so I can cold crash without sucking back 02.

I don't know. I need to check the papers/manual that came with it. I was at my apartment just long enough to get these out of the box yesterday and then had to travel home to Chicago. They're at my work residence.

They seem like they could handle a little psi for siphoning. You'd have to rig it for a blow off and use that hose to pressurize. I think a bulkhead fitting with a hose barb would do the job.

 

[schematix]

Very nice! Do you know if they can hold a little pressure? My hangup on buying a fermenter is that I want to be able to add some pressure so I can cold crash without sucking back 02.

You want something like this then.... https://conical-fermenter.com/CF20TW-RA-JKT.html

 

[murphyslaw]

You want something like this then.... https://conical-fermenter.com/CF20TW-RA-JKT.html

Ha! Yes, I do WANT that. But when I open my wallet butterflies come out.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Ha! Yes, I do WANT that. But when I open my wallet butterflies come out.

This might be more to your wallets liking.

https://conical-fermenter.com/7.3-Gallon-Fermenter.html

7.3 gallons and $299 each.

 

[divrack]

I bought a 30ltr urn for shout 60 bucks. 2500 watt I think.
You have to remove the thermostat and safety cut out which is easy but thereafter it is great for hlt and boil. I sometimes use one for mash with an stc100 biab style.
It's way way better than the boiler I got for the times that much previous.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I bought a 30ltr urn for shout 60 bucks. 2500 watt I think.
You have to remove the thermostat and safety cut out which is easy but thereafter it is great for hlt and boil. I sometimes use one for mash with an stc100 biab style.
It's way way better than the boiler I got for the times that much previous.

What brand did you buy? Can you share a link?

 

[divrack]

What brand did you buy? Can you share a link?

This is it
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B014FX8SZG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
It's a fair bit more pricy there but you'll find it or similar cheaper. Just make sure it's powerful.
There will be some type of thermal cut out safety thing to remove, and you'll want to remove the thermostat if you are boiling with it, but it's pretty obvious. Disconnect from the power first though eh..
I'm in the UK so you should be able to find something even cheaper id imagine

 

[Schlenkerla]

This is it
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B014FX8SZG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
It's a fair bit more pricy there but you'll find it or similar cheaper. Just make sure it's powerful.
There will be some type of thermal cut out safety thing to remove, and you'll want to remove the thermostat if you are boiling with it, but it's pretty obvious. Disconnect from the power first though eh..
I'm in the UK so you should be able to find something even cheaper id imagine

Looking to add something like this to my Christmas list.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Coffee Urn or electric turkey frier will work as 120v HLT here in the states.

Time to heat will be slow.

Craigslist might have electric turkey fryer for cheap.

View attachment 600629

 

[Schlenkerla]

Coffee Urn or electric turkey frier will work as 120v HLT here in the states.

Time to heat will be slow.

Craigslist might have electric turkey fryer for cheap.

View attachment 600629

Good idea. I'll have to check one of electric turkey fryers out.

I don't need fast heating. Over night to 180 F would suit me fine.

 

[TechFanMD]

I use this 'bucket heater' on a timer rated for the full 15A. This gets the water well past strike temp in a few hours, time depending on what I am heating in (cooler vs pot). I like to set it up in my cooler mash tun so it preheats and heats the water at the same time. I set it to have hot water ready after work, or first thing in the morning depending on when I brew.....it really shaves time off by having hot water ready to go. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BDB4UG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Schlenkerla]

View attachment 600638 View attachment 600639 I use this 'bucket heater' on a timer rated for the full 15A. This gets the water well past strike temp in a few hours, time depending on what I am heating in (cooler vs pot). I like to set it up in my cooler mash tun so it preheats and heats the water at the same time. I set it to have hot water ready after work, or first thing in the morning depending on when I brew.....it really shaves time off by having hot water ready to go. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BDB4UG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I saw this online, though that's what I need. Then I worried about it being a fire hazard. You're using a plastic cooler? So, it's NOT a problem...

That's awesome!

 

[TechFanMD]

I saw this online, though that's what I need. Then I worried about it being a fire hazard. You're using a plastic cooler? So, it's NOT a problem...

That's awesome!

I cant see how it would be a fire hazard any more than other heating elements. It needs to be submerged pretty much just past the stainless part (so that the whole heating element is under water). The stainless guard keeps the heating element from touching anything like the plastic mash tun - plus its all under water so the mash tun would get to be a max of 212F if you let it go long enough (and covered).

I do also heat water using this in a kettle sometimes but generally just do it right in the MT.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I cant see how it would be a fire hazard any more than other heating elements. It needs to be submerged pretty much just past the stainless part (so that the whole heating element is under water). The stainless guard keeps the heating element from touching anything like the plastic mash tun - plus its all under water so the mash tun would get to be a max of 212F if you let it go long enough (and covered).

I do also heat water using this in a kettle sometimes but generally just do it right in the MT.

That's ^^^^ exactly what I need short of going to a pump.

I usually heat 5 gallons to 180F on the stove top. Just thinking as I get older, there has to be a simple way not to have to pour 5 gallons of 180F water into a five gallon thermos using elbow length welding gloves. I pour about 3/4 - 1 gallon to the mash tun then the rest to the hlt.... Eventually all of gets to the hlt.

 

[lump42]

That's ^^^^ exactly what I need short of going to a pump.

I usually heat 5 gallons to 180F on the stove top. Just thinking as I get older, there has to be a simple way not to have to pour 5 gallons of 180F water into a five gallon thermos using elbow length welding gloves. I pour about 3/4 - 1 gallon to the mash tun then the rest to the hlt.... Eventually all of gets to the hlt.

I've been looking at the brewhardware hotrod and either the mark II or anvil pumps, but my frugalness keeps drawing me to the bucket heater and a little brown solar water pump. The pump only moves at 2GPM but 5-10 minutes compared to lifting full mash tun.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I've been looking at the brewhardware hotrod and either the mark II or anvil pumps, but my frugalness keeps drawing me to the bucket heater and a little brown solar water pump. The pump only moves at 2GPM but 5-10 minutes compared to lifting full mash tun.

I'm thinking the same thing. At this point in time I'm ok with lifting hot liquid. I'm apprehensive about pouring a large volume of strike water.

Come to think of it.... Putting a ball valve on my brew kettle should be a first priority. I might have one in my big brewing tackle box.

I will say the bucket heater seems like a really good idea.

 

[divrack]

Good idea. I'll have to check one of electric turkey fryers out.

I don't need fast heating. Over night to 180 F would suit me fine.

That one listed is pretty quick. Cold to boiling in maybe half an hr or so. Aim for 2500 watts.

 

[wilserbrewer]

For anyone lifting large volumes of hot water, the use of a Denny Conn red neck poor mans pump should be considered.

This is simply a one gallon pitcher or kitchen pot w/ handle.

I have done occasional 15g batches and have moved a boat load of hot liquor, wort and even chilled wort to the fermenter with nothing more than a gallon plastic pitcher.

Sure it is ghetto, but it is efficient, cheap and easy...try it some time, easier to clean than a pump

 

[lump42]

I'm thinking the same thing. At this point in time I'm ok with lifting hot liquid. I'm apprehensive about pouring a large volume of strike water.

Come to think of it.... Putting a ball valve on my brew kettle should be a first priority. I might have one in my big brewing tackle box.

I will say the bucket heater seems like a really good idea.

For anyone lifting large volumes of hot water, the use of a Denny Conn red neck poor mans pump should be considered.

This is simply a one gallon pitcher or kitchen pot w/ handle.

I have done occasional 15g batches and have moved a boat load of hot liquor, wort and even chilled wort to the fermenter with nothing more than a gallon plastic pitcher.

Sure it is ghetto, but it is efficient, cheap and easy...try it some time, easier to clean than a pump

It hasn't been an issue until I tried to do a higher gravity 10 gallon mash. Then it was a bit of a struggle to lift the mashtun cooler. My cheapness might start the DennyConn pump system. I believe one of Drew and his podcast episodes, Denny talked about his no lift brewery, I just can't find the episode right now.

 

[Soulshine2]

lifting hot water that is over 90 degrees isnt really safe .Most of us wouldn't step into a shower that is that high. y'alls talking about lifting 212(boiling water) is NOT safe at all. 3rd degree burns are likely if something should go wrong. pumps generally do not take a temperature higher than 170 which strike water isnt that high anyway but prolonged use at that temp will wear one out .
Use gravity... mount your vessel for heating strike/sparge water above your mlt so youre only pouring in tap temp water to that , heat and open a hand (ball) valve to transfer . Simple (cheap), safer and no pumps .
I bought a pump but built my 3 tier rig so I wouldnt need it .

 

[Soulshine2]

lifting hot water that is over 90 degrees isnt really safe .Most of us wouldn't step into a shower that is that high. y'alls talking about lifting 212(boiling water) is NOT safe at all. 3rd degree burns are likely if something should go wrong. pumps generally do not take a temperature higher than 170 which strike water isnt that high anyway but prolonged use at that temp will wear one out .
Use gravity... mount your vessel for heating strike/sparge water above your mlt so youre only pouring in tap temp water to that , heat and open a hand (ball) valve to transfer . Simple (cheap), safer and no pumps .
I bought a pump but built my 3 tier rig so I wouldnt need it .

 

[lump42]

pumps generally do not take a temperature higher than 170 which strike water isnt that high anyway but prolonged use at that temp will wear one out .

My pump (mark ii) is rated to 248F. Chuggers are rated to 250F. Boiling water/wort is well below that. Wouldn't expect short uses of 85% of the rated temp to wear out the pump. Pumps are another engineered safety measure for moving hot liquids.

 

[Magnus314]

I saw this online, though that's what I need. Then I worried about it being a fire hazard. You're using a plastic cooler? So, it's NOT a problem...

That's awesome!

That bucket heater plus a temp controller is what you'd probably want. No additional space required, it all fits in or on your mash tun.