Things are getting interesting, BB Icemaster Max 2....

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Can someone explain the 'recent' upswing in homebrewers using gylcol. I took a break from geeking out on brewing for a couple years and now it's commonplace to use glycol in systems at home. Why? What wasn't quite cutting it?

Do you think the precision ferm temp from being jacketed is worth it?
 
It is an efficient way to manage fermentation heat, it is what is used effectively in breweries. Also there are many homebrewers who like to have the newest and best. With that said, I still use a refrigerator being managed by a controller that works great and my beer is damn fine.
 
cubalz said:
It is an efficient way to manage fermentation heat, it is what is used effectively in breweries. Also there are many homebrewers who like to have the newest and best. With that said, I still use a refrigerator being managed by a controller that works great and my beer is damn fine.
Click to expand...

This is my experience and setup as well. I'm not sure homebrewers always think why pro brewers do certain things. It's because the volume and scale of what they do requires it. Plate chillers, conicals, glycol, etc. Yeah some are more efficient but at what pricetag? Like batch sparging. Fly sparging is marginally better efficient wise for homebrewers, requires an extra vessel, requires you to monitor the gravity of the runnings towards the end, requires you to dial in flow in/out. But I believe few homebrewers batch sprage, it's perceived as not the way sparging is done. I've never come close to maxing my 10gal gatorade mash tun.
 
I have 2 SS Brewtech conicals with FTS2 hearing/cooling systems. I used to put water and frozen water bottles in a cooler next to the fermenters to keep them at my desired temperature. That meant keeping about a dozen frozen water bottles in my freezer and having to swap them out 2-3 times a day during initial fermentation (before work, after returning from work and before going to bed). It worked, but it had its limits. About the coldest I could get was 50 degrees and that took more frozen water bottles at a time and swapping out more frequently. I was lucky enough to be able to buy a used SS Brewtech glycol chiller at a good price and love it. No more frozen water bottles, not more swapping out bottles 3 times a day. Just set and forget. In addition, I can chill the fermenters down into the high 30's. I also noticed that I can get the fermenters down to pitching temperature much quicker that with frozen water bottles (which usually involves lowering the temperature by 10-20 degrees after using my immersion chiller). Would I have spent $1,000 + for this luxury? No. But for $500-$600, it is fantastic.
 
It's just the fetishization of brewing, like how people think they need a conical to make commercial-grade beer (let's not get into how bad lots of commercial beer is). The brew bucket-type FVs are a simple, great improvement. A stainless bucket with a fermentation fridge works flawlessly.

But like every hobby, where there is disposable income there will be an exciting option. Conicals and glycol are about having fun - no harm there. People spend thousands of dollars to lighten their racing bikes to carry around their fat butts - it's good for the economy and hurts nobody.
 
Mer-man said:
It's just the fetishization of brewing, like how people think they need a conical to make commercial-grade beer (let's not get into how bad lots of commercial beer is). The brew bucket-type FVs are a simple, great improvement. A stainless bucket with a fermentation fridge works flawlessly.

But like every hobby, where there is disposable income there will be an exciting option. Conicals and glycol are about having fun - no harm there. People spend thousands of dollars to lighten their racing bikes to carry around their fat butts - it's good for the economy and hurts nobody.
Click to expand...
Well said
 
Mer-man said:
It's just the fetishization of brewing, like how people think they need a conical to make commercial-grade beer (let's not get into how bad lots of commercial beer is). The brew bucket-type FVs are a simple, great improvement. A stainless bucket with a fermentation fridge works flawlessly.

But like every hobby, where there is disposable income there will be an exciting option. Conicals and glycol are about having fun - no harm there. People spend thousands of dollars to lighten their racing bikes to carry around their fat butts - it's good for the economy and hurts nobody.
Click to expand...

It's a solution to a problem, don't see the fetish there. I get your point, happens in every hobby but there a lot of guys trying to make the best beer possible and equipment helps.

A glycol chilled conical is the same as someone using a fridge or a DIY ferm chamber, just about getting temp controlled the best way for that brewer. It's also about ease of use. A chilled conical provides a lot of solutions. Brewing larger batches you dont have to move anything to chill or clean and don't have to split batches over multiple vessels. You can carb in them and pressure transfer and well as being the best solution for limiting oxygen exposure. There are very useful reasons to have more than a brew bucket. Not necessary, of course but they serve a purpose.
 
i use glycol because i have 2 cf15 fermenters and limited space. so its easier and takes up much less room then have a fridge for each one or ferm chamber big enough to put them in. this just suited my situation, and yes of course it is fun having the latest and greatest but it is still great functionality.
 
2005STi said:
Tell me why to choose fly sparging, as a homebrewer, over batch sparging. On a regular setup, no grainfather/all in one set ups.

I honestly think batch sparging is looked as an inferior method.
Click to expand...

You might want to look around the forums again. Not only is batch sparge not a topic of derision (at least around here), but Brew-In-A-Bag (BIAB) is commonplace as well.

Although not comprehensive, the 2019 Brulosophy survey (here) had about 2,500 respondents. The last two years Fly sparging has held constant at ~20%, while batch sparge and BIAB have both been hovering around 30%. The all-in-ones have been gaining steam as well as more products come on the market. It's driven the price down and creates an affordable and simple method to get into all-grain brewing, or even move their brewing inside during extreme cold/heat.

I could see how a glycol system would be helpful in different situations. I don't need one, but I have a basement that stays around 65-70F year-round and a water bath in a ice cube cooler lets me lager in the summer.
 
Seamus said:
It's a solution to a problem, don't see the fetish there. I get your point, happens in every hobby but there a lot of guys trying to make the best beer possible and equipment helps.

A glycol chilled conical is the same as someone using a fridge or a DIY ferm chamber, just about getting temp controlled the best way for that brewer. It's also about ease of use. A chilled conical provides a lot of solutions. Brewing larger batches you dont have to move anything to chill or clean and don't have to split batches over multiple vessels. You can carb in them and pressure transfer and well as being the best solution for limiting oxygen exposure. There are very useful reasons to have more than a brew bucket. Not necessary, of course but they serve a purpose.
Click to expand...

1. It's irrational transferrence - an obsession about features and bling that is not actually necessary. But note, I did not say it's a problem, I just said it's a thing.
2. "Best way" as you present it is very subjective, as the next guy comments -- he'd already bought two conicals, so of course with that investment a glycol chiller is a reasonable next step.
3. Ease of use, I doubt.
4. Lots of solutions are required by lots of problems.
5. Don't have to move or clean? Really? A fermenter is for fermenting and then you package. 75% of brewing is cleaning anyway, so are you advocating serving from a glycol-chilled conical? How do you brew the next batch, buy another conical?
6. You can carb in a keg, naturally or with tank gas.
7. Pressure transferring is quite good if you're moving still beer.
8. No, racking still-fermenting beer in a closed loop is the best solution for limiting oxygen exposure.
9. They serve a purpose one has created by over-complicating things. See point 1.

You don't have to justify your purchases to me. I am just saying they are technically not necessary for ease of use, limiting oxygen exposure, pressure transfers, or brewing large batches.
 
When this thing goes on sale I'll prolly buy it.
I don't "need" it all, but it'll fun and serve to alleviate some MINOR problems for me.
I have a Spike Flex+ and I love it. Lifting it into the chest freezer isn't THAT hard, but it's annoying and a tight fit. Also not having to lift it out to do a closed transfer would be nice and keep things settled in there. I have a beer 7 days into fermenting and out of boredom I want to do another but can't until this one is done.
Spending a grand made it not worth it for me personally. I'd just deal.
If this were to ever go on sale for 600 shipped I'd be way into it.
I generally agree with you, mer-man, about all the stuff being unnecessary. You're just not seeing that it's fun for people to do this stuff.
It's like hobbyist auto mechanics having every tool in the world, a lift, blasting cabinet, welder, pipe bender, etc... You don't "need" it, it's just fun
 
Mer-man said:
1. It's irrational transferrence - an obsession about features and bling that is not actually necessary. But note, I did not say it's a problem, I just said it's a thing.
2. "Best way" as you present it is very subjective, as the next guy comments -- he'd already bought two conicals, so of course with that investment a glycol chiller is a reasonable next step.
3. Ease of use, I doubt.
4. Lots of solutions are required by lots of problems.
5. Don't have to move or clean? Really? A fermenter is for fermenting and then you package. 75% of brewing is cleaning anyway, so are you advocating serving from a glycol-chilled conical? How do you brew the next batch, buy another conical?
6. You can carb in a keg, naturally or with tank gas.
7. Pressure transferring is quite good if you're moving still beer.
8. No, racking still-fermenting beer in a closed loop is the best solution for limiting oxygen exposure.
9. They serve a purpose one has created by over-complicating things. See point 1.

You don't have to justify your purchases to me. I am just saying they are technically not necessary for ease of use, limiting oxygen exposure, pressure transfers, or brewing large batches.
Click to expand...

1. Nobody is obsessed. That's pretty ridiculous.
2. Which is exactly why i said best way THAT brewer, not sure how you missed that.
3. You doubt? Not exactly empirical so not sure why you need to claim people are obsessed.
4. This is just nonsense saying to not accept there are actual problems that require solutions.
5. I said have to MOVE to clean, again not sure how you missed that. Or move.. Who wants to carry around 15g of wort.
6. Didn't say it was the only way so this was not worth bringing up.
8. No what.. I meant overall, start to finish.
9. You're basically saying any piece of equipment that you don't personally have a use for is over-complication. You don't need to justify not wanting to change your process by making up reasons why other people do things, especially since your whole argument is conjecture.
 
Mer-man said:
1. It's irrational transferrence - an obsession about features and bling that is not actually necessary. But note, I did not say it's a problem, I just said it's a thing.
2. "Best way" as you present it is very subjective, as the next guy comments -- he'd already bought two conicals, so of course with that investment a glycol chiller is a reasonable next step.
3. Ease of use, I doubt.
4. Lots of solutions are required by lots of problems.
5. Don't have to move or clean? Really? A fermenter is for fermenting and then you package. 75% of brewing is cleaning anyway, so are you advocating serving from a glycol-chilled conical? How do you brew the next batch, buy another conical?
6. You can carb in a keg, naturally or with tank gas.
7. Pressure transferring is quite good if you're moving still beer.
8. No, racking still-fermenting beer in a closed loop is the best solution for limiting oxygen exposure.
9. They serve a purpose one has created by over-complicating things. See point 1.

You don't have to justify your purchases to me. I am just saying they are technically not necessary for ease of use, limiting oxygen exposure, pressure transfers, or brewing large batches.
Click to expand...


You know what ... I heard they sell beer in stores. All of this stuff is just an irrational transference I guess.
 
Seamus said:
1. Nobody is obsessed. That's pretty ridiculous.
2. Which is exactly why i said best way THAT brewer, not sure how you missed that.
3. You doubt? Not exactly empirical so not sure why you need to claim people are obsessed.
4. This is just nonsense saying to not accept there are actual problems that require solutions.
5. I said have to MOVE to clean, again not sure how you missed that. Or move.. Who wants to carry around 15g of wort.
6. Didn't say it was the only way so this was not worth bringing up.
8. No what.. I meant overall, start to finish.
9. You're basically saying any piece of equipment that you don't personally have a use for is over-complication. You don't need to justify not wanting to change your process by making up reasons why other people do things, especially since your whole argument is conjecture.
Click to expand...

Whether or not you agree with my perspective, I was still not saying this is the wrong way to do anything. Critical analysis should not be taken personally. And let's not argue over punctuation on the internet -- sorry I misread your meaning. Conicals for some, miniature American flags for others!
 
deuc224 said:
This might be my ticket , dont really need more than 2 connections and missed the stasis preorder. This will probably get bought in may. Anyone else interested?

BrewBuilt™ IceMaster Max 2 Glycol Chiller | MoreBeer
Click to expand...
Getting this thread back on track after a small derailment...

I was initially leaning towards the Stasis and, luckily, decided to wait until they were rolled out before pulling the trigger. Seems they are facing some issues so I decided to look elsewhere. I was going to bite the bullet and get the IceMaster Max 4 but it is complete overkill for me. I generally don't have more than two beers going at once so the ability to control 4 fermenters was unnecessary. When I saw the Max 2, I pulled the trigger.

Now the waiting game...

Officially, MoreBeer does not have a release date and I have been in communication with their sales team and they don't have a hard date yet. HOWEVER, if you look at Kegland, who sells the exact same fermenter for the Australian market, they have a May 22nd date set for availability. I am hoping that MoreBeer will be able to ship around that same time frame. Again, have not been able to get MoreBeer to confirm that date.
 
NewJersey said:
How cold can it get the glycol?
Stasis doesn't get that low
Click to expand...
Will depend on the glycol mixture. I would imagine it will easily maintain temps in the 20s, which is more than sufficient for fermentation and crashing.
 
CraftaBrew said:
Our engineering team thought that was the best balance between the lowest possible set temperature and limiting the amount of on/off cycles to ensure longevity fo the unit. At 36F you can still cold crash and have the same effect as if you had it set to 32F or below, the difference in time between 32F and 36F is so minimal that it is not worth putting extra stress on the unit.
Click to expand...

This is from their thread in the sponsor showcase on HBT.
Lowest setpoint is 36°
 
2005STi said:
This is my experience and setup as well. I'm not sure homebrewers always think why pro brewers do certain things. It's because the volume and scale of what they do requires it. Plate chillers, conicals, glycol, etc. Yeah some are more efficient but at what pricetag? Like batch sparging. Fly sparging is marginally better efficient wise for homebrewers, requires an extra vessel, requires you to monitor the gravity of the runnings towards the end, requires you to dial in flow in/out. But I believe few homebrewers batch sprage, it's perceived as not the way sparging is done. I've never come close to maxing my 10gal gatorade mash tun.
Click to expand...

This. Many seem to think of the pros do it a certain way, it must be superior, but in reality, it's usually driven by the sheer size of their batches. For 5-10 gallon batches, we have the luxury of equipment and processes that work as well or better and are relatively cheaper and easier with literally zero compromise.

Say you get a glycol system. What do you do if you want to ferment a kveik at 92 degrees? In my chest freezer, I have a heating pad that keeps it right on temp, plus the freezer, controller, heating pad and fermenter combined are much less expensive than just the glycol chiller.

I'm fine with people setting up mini pro rigs if that trips their trigger, but you don't get better beer and you spend a ton of dough on it. But everyone should do what works for them.

I'll pass.

Oh, and I batch sparge.
 
I really don’t like the built in controller for the iceMaster 100, I hope these are better. I ended up using an inkbird to control mine.
but I’m probably obsessed...
2DFC45D1-3FBE-4AD9-918D-1255AB644D53.jpeg
 
This was easier to find before Blichmann started selling glycol system but it is still there.

https://blichmannengineering.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/topics/5000065537
Not sure why he was comparing to solid state cooling -- guess the brew jacket was popular new gadget when it was written - but advantages of freezer include cheaper than glycol options, footprint not much more than the fermenter itself, plenty of chilling power, no insulation and fewer things stuck to the conical make it easier to clean (not to mention no chilling coil to clean), no condensation dripping on floor, very low operating cost.

I would guess operating cost is substantially lower than glycol. Both systems are using a compressor to get rid of heat but the freezer is properly insulated.

None of that has changed but there is clearly demand for the glycol systems so he is offering one.
 
Hwk-I-St8 said:
What do you do if you want to ferment a kveik at 92 degrees?
Click to expand...
I have a DIY glycol setup right now and what I do for heating is not all that dissimilar than your method. On both of my fermenters (one Anvil bucket and one Spike CF10) I have a reptile aquarium heating cord attached for heating. Simply plug that into the heat side of my STC and set temp. I can easily get into the 90s.

Link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001OVBEEK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
2005STi said:
Can someone explain the 'recent' upswing in homebrewers using gylcol. I took a break from geeking out on brewing for a couple years and now it's commonplace to use glycol in systems at home. Why? What wasn't quite cutting it?

Do you think the precision ferm temp from being jacketed is worth it?
Click to expand...

So... I don't today have a glycol system. I ferment in a converted 15.5 gallon sanke keg in a fridge using an external relay controller.

That said, if I moved to glycol (and I'd consider it if the cost of glycol + 2 conical jacketed 14-15 gal fermenters was lower) here are the reasons I would do so:

  1. I'd prefer a conical fermenter that I can more easily dump trub and ferment under pressure. I currently transfer under pressure but if I fermented under pressure I think it would help to minimize O2 pickup during cold crash and then transfer and dumping the trub would help achieve clear wort going INTO the kegs rather than picking up trub or hop matter. Key issue solved: a conical won't fit in my fermentation fridge.
  2. I don't think I'd never need more than 2 ports on a glycol system, but with two conicals and individual temp control for each I could ferment two beers at once. Key issue solved: multiple concurrent fermentations that won't fit in a fridge.
  3. I live in a relatively small house, and garage space is at at premium. I'd like to get a chest freezer for meat and other things, but literally have NO more room in the garage. A glycol system and two fermenters would not take up the floor area of the current fermentation fridge and would allow that fridge to be retired to make room for a deep freezer. Key issue solved: make room for other projects because the glycol system takes up less room and the fermenters can be more easily spaced where there's room.
  4. And it's just damn cool.
Problem, of course, is cost. I don't brew often enough to truly justify it at current pricing. If I didn't have a wife and kids, and was more frequently entertaining friends and thus going through beer faster? At that point it might make sense.
 
Hwk-I-St8 said:
This. Many seem to think of the pros do it a certain way, it must be superior, but in reality, it's usually driven by the sheer size of their batches. For 5-10 gallon batches, we have the luxury of equipment and processes that work as well or better and are relatively cheaper and easier with literally zero compromise.

Say you get a glycol system. What do you do if you want to ferment a kveik at 92 degrees? In my chest freezer, I have a heating pad that keeps it right on temp, plus the freezer, controller, heating pad and fermenter combined are much less expensive than just the glycol chiller.

I'm fine with people setting up mini pro rigs if that trips their trigger, but you don't get better beer and you spend a ton of dough on it. But everyone should do what works for them.

I'll pass.

Oh, and I batch sparge.
Click to expand...

Tbh, heating wort is never a serious problem, it can be achieved in many simple inexpensive ways. But cooling the wort has always been a problem for most. Its really not a fair comparison, I ended up just swinging for the fences and couldnt wait on the ETA of the Max2 and decided to get a Max4. Ill probably grab another grainfather conical and use 2 fermenters for a while until Brewtools comes up with its 1/2 barrel fermenter, then just buy that one to do full batches. Rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.
 
I have a peguin glycol chiller it works well. keeps 4 conicals at temps in a florida garage. It crashes down to 38° when set to 28° glycol temp which I find sufficient. It only has a 2 gallon glycol tank which is tight for 4 pumps and probably plays a role in the 38° crashing.

The new morebeer / brewbuilt one looks very nice for the pricepoint. 4 built in pumps and controllers for 899 is a deal when you consider a good glycol pump is $35 and a inkbird is another $28. I would be interested to know how easily you can replace those parts if something died.
 
deuc224 said:
Tbh, heating wort is never a serious problem, it can be achieved in many simple inexpensive ways. But cooling the wort has always been a problem for most. Its really not a fair comparison, I ended up just swinging for the fences and couldnt wait on the ETA of the Max2 and decided to get a Max4. Ill probably grab another grainfather conical and use 2 fermenters for a while until Brewtools comes up with its 1/2 barrel fermenter, then just buy that one to do full batches. Rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.
Click to expand...

Needing to heat a fermenter is not as common, and heating a fermenter like my 6g BmB in a fermentation chamber is pretty easy indeed. I'm just not sure you you do it when your temp control is an immersed coil connected to a device that only chills. I suppose you could wrap it with heating pads and insulate it. It just seems like massive overkill and a huge unnecessary expense unless you're brewing huge batches. I have a massive beer brewing budget and a wife who supports whatever I want to do for brewing. A house with a good situation for brewing was literally a "must-have" for us when we moved last summer. If I wanted to buy a $1000 setup for fermenting, it would not be a problem, but there's no added value in it at my scale, so why spend the money?

That being said, there are an astonishing number of homebrewers here who brew huge batches. They either drink an amazing amount of beer or it's not all for personal consumption. I brew about 10 5g batches a year for my wife and myself (and the occasional visitor). I can't fathom brewing 15-30G batches. I could not drink even 10 gallons fast enough to justify that. If it was a style that really should be consumed fresh, I'd have to dump half anyway.

But for those who do, bigger conicals and $500-$1000 temp control rigs are probably a viable option.
 
Yeah HWK, I dont see myself brewing huge amounts of beer, but everything ive learned has pointed me to the direction that fermentation is the most important part and temp control is extremely vital. Its why I got the set up I have, Grainfather conical that heats and a glycol chiller that cools it. Dial in the temps, adjust the chiller temp to the probe temp in the conical and let her go. Convenience is something i may over value more than others, but if im this deep into the game, whats a few more dollars gonna hurt?
 
deuc224 said:
Yeah HWK, I dont see myself brewing huge amounts of beer, but everything ive learned has pointed me to the direction that fermentation is the most important part and temp control is extremely vital. Its why I got the set up I have, Grainfather conical that heats and a glycol chiller that cools it. Dial in the temps, adjust the chiller temp to the probe temp in the conical and let her go. Convenience is something i may over value more than others, but if im this deep into the game, whats a few more dollars gonna hurt?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just put my big mouth bubbler in a chest freezer, set the temp on my inkbird and slide its temp probe into the thermowell. The freezer and heating pad takes care of the rest. The whole rig for $250.
 
With glycol and inkbird WiFi controllers this is 3 heated and cooled fermenters. That’s why it’s my choice.
Plus the beer is better. 😂
 

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