Thermometers, Spickets, & Sightglasses, Oh My!

[Stevorino]

Okay, so I've ordered everything for my All-Grain stuff except the Weldless Fixtures in the subject line. Initially I planned on buying a Thermo, SS Spicket, & Sightglass for all 3 of my keggles... but I don't know if I can afford spending close to $450 right now (between $40-$50 a piece times 9).

What I want to hear from the veterans here is which of these fixtures are the most essential (provide most convenience) than others. I'm assuming that each fixture's convenience also changes on whether the keggle is used as a HLT, MLT, or Brewpot.

Also, for anyone that has hot tips on where to get high quality fixtures for lower than I'm estimating above, let me know. I already know Bobby_M has some sweet deals on the sightglasses.

Thanks!

 

[kickflip_mj]

i dont think you need a sight glass on you mash tun, i heard it clogs up alot, but you do need a thermometer and on you brew pot you dont really need a temp guage bc you are just boiling, but you kinda need to know the temp of it before it goes into your carboy. thats all i can really think of but you do need spickets on all of them.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

http://www.greatbargain.net/order/index.html

I use a sight guage in my HLT and a stick guage in my kettle. Thermothingy by Zymico thermometer ports on HLT and MLT.

Brass Weldless valves all around.

3 Kegs. maybe $100 - $120 total. The most expensive being the Sight guage.

 

[Bobby_M]

I agonized over this in this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=37963

And even after all that thinking I already have regrets about having an elbow direct welded in for the sight glass.

If I had to do it over, I'd go with three 1/2" couplings in each for the BK and MLT. For the HLT, I'd put a 1/2" elbow directly into the bottom of the keg and run it out through a hole in the bottom skirt. Right there I'd put a TEE and run a ball valve and sight glass off of that. The thermo would go in a 1/2" coupling on the side just like the other vessels. The advantage of the bottom drain feeding the ball valve and thermo is that no siphon tube is required and you don't have to worry about having at least 3 gallons in there to even register on the sight glass.

I also wouldn't worry too much about going with all stainless three-piece ball valves. I happened to find an amazing deal on three of them but they don't make better beer.

I'm not sure about the sight glass on the MLT getting clogged up a lot or not since I haven't mashed in it yet. I still have to get my burner plumbing all worked out before I abandon my cooler.

 

[kickflip_mj]

i read in a fourm a while ago about the sight glass clogging issue but there is no way in hell i am going to be able to find that post. i have 2 9 gallon itallian kettles and a keggle mash tun and personaly im thinking about getting a keggle boil kettle and i also want to put the 90 degree coupler in the bottom, makes life so much easier, and probably run a hopeback off that to make life easier and less to clean up.

 

[kickflip_mj]

oh and i forgot just get the reg stainless ball valve, the three piece is just to clean it easier, just go with the the ones more beer has.

 

[Bobby_M]

I received a PM asking more about my suggestions here and I though it would be best to air out my responses in case someone highly suggests otherwise. I haven't tested my advice in practice and would hate to steer someone wrong.

The questions regarding my idea to running the HLT drain out the bottom were:

1) What material would these be?

304 or 316 stainless pipe and pipe fittings.

2) What kind of connection would there be btw the elbow and tubing running to the skirt?

Threaded and I'd use either teflon tape or some other food grade thead sealant.

3) will this be able to take the heat from my 210k BTU burner?

I don't see why not. The bottom of the keg is stainless and so will be the pipe. In the rare chance that the water inside the pipe boils from being contained to a degree, it will just release steam into the kettle and it will be quickly cooled to whatever temp the water in there is.

This mockup is going to require a little bit more work prior to having the keg welded up. I would imagine the horizontal pipe would have to angle upwards a little bit to make it line up with a hole drilled into the skirt AND also clear the bottom rolled edge of the keg. You could notch this rolled edge at this location but at the very least you wouldn't want the pipe to extend lower than the keg bottom because it won't want to sit on your burner/stand nicely. This means you have to have it all setup before the elbow is welded in. It sounds like a lot of trouble but I think it has enough advantages to be worth it (IMHO).

Again, remember that the sight glass in this setup would probably start registering at about 1 gallon or less instead of 3.

I'd like to hear others' opinions on this before you run with it. I'll try to remember to take some pics of some pipe piece put together to show you what I mean.

 

[Atl300zx]

Threaded and I'd use either teflon tape or some other food grade thead sealant.

Will the teflon tape survive? or will it burn up and eventually drip?

 

[Kayos]

Zymie is selling off some weldless thermometers on ebay right now for $20. Buy more than 1 and shipping drops way off. Bought one for my HLT. Made the valve from brass at HD for $20. Bought a thermothingy from ebrew.com for $11. Put my turkey fryer thermo in it for free. No need for a thermo IMO in your kettle.

 

[Bobby_M]

Will the teflon tape survive? or will it burn up and eventually drip?

Good question but I've seen people claim no leaks on joints that don't use any sealent. Even if the telflon is a little compromised, it has nowhere to go once the fitting is cranked down. I look at the teflon mostly as a lubricant to allow a deep seated threading.

 

[Bobby_M]

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about:

Notice that if you have the elbow welded flush like I'm holding it hear, it sticks down quite a bit but there's no reason you can't grind off the lower part of the elbow and have it sit inside a larger hole in the bottom of the keg. Then you can notch the rolled edge of the skirt just so the pipe clears and lets the keg sit even on your burner.

Just an idea, slightly outside the box.

 

[Jaybird]

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about:

Notice that if you have the elbow welded flush like I'm holding it hear, it sticks down quite a bit but there's no reason you can't grind off the lower part of the elbow and have it sit inside a larger hole in the bottom of the keg. Then you can notch the rolled edge of the skirt just so the pipe clears and lets the keg sit even on your burner.

Just an idea, slightly outside the box.

Hay Bobby I dont think I would use black iron pipe for that... I know I know illistrations only Just kidding:cross:
You dont have to worry about the teflon melting away its already been turned into mush when you screw the thing together and I installed mine similar to that but I would suggest installing a small heat shield I was afraid of scortching from the direct flame, So I wraped it with 1000 deg insulation and a heat shield and have never had a problem.

JJ

 

[ddroukas]

Many of you talk of making your own bulkhead fittings from Home Depot parts. I found the SS 1/2" nipple and coupling pieces from a local plumbing supply for dirt cheap, but I'm searching for a suitable silicone o-ring and lock nut. Anyone know if the black o-rings they sell at HD or Lowe's are suitable for our boiling applications? What about the lock nut--where can I find that?

 

[Bobby_M]

You can buy stainless fittings at large plumbing supply. I have one near me that is very competitive.

Silicone Orings can be ordered online but no, don't mess with HD stuff it's probably BUNA-N or EPDM. Max temp 200F ish.

Lock nuts are also orderable online but stainless is not cheap at all. I think Morebeer actually has one of the cheapest weldless bulkheads that includes a stainless locknut.

Jaybird, good to hear the teflon tape keeps the seal. I don't think the OP needs to worry about the heat shield because it's just the HLT. No sugars in the water. If one is really concerned though, I suppose you could plug the burner jets that would hit the pipe.

 

[mr x]

If you're going to get that welded into the bottom, why not use socket welded fittings on the pipe and not worry about the threads.

 

[Bobby_M]

They're a bit harder to come by I'd think and the clock is ticking at the welding shop. My guy charged something like $15-20 a weld.... so I'd like to have him stop as soon as possible.

 

[ddroukas]

Does anyone know where I could get the same o-rings northernbrewer sells with their bulkhead fittings for magnitudes cheaper?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Try www.mcmastercarr.com

 

[Atl300zx]

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about:

Notice that if you have the elbow welded flush like I'm holding it hear, it sticks down quite a bit but there's no reason you can't grind off the lower part of the elbow and have it sit inside a larger hole in the bottom of the keg. Then you can notch the rolled edge of the skirt just so the pipe clears and lets the keg sit even on your burner.

Just an idea, slightly outside the box.

Wouldnt you have to cap the sightglass to maintain a syphon on the ball valve or is this not an issue since we arent using a syphon tube?

 

[Ryan_PA]

Wouldnt you have to cap the sightglass to maintain a syphon on the ball valve or is this not an issue since we arent using a syphon tube?

There is no syphon in this approach, so you would not have to cap the sight glass. It is actually an interesting approach.

 

[Bobby_M]

Right. Exactly. This is a pure gravity feed so the sight glass being vented should have no effect. I will caution though that the level probably won't be 100% correct while the drain is flowing because a small pressure drop will probably take place at the elbow from a small siphon being pulled by the water outflow. Just a quick closing of the valve is all it would take to steady the level. Tradeoffs in everything I suppose.

 

[Ryan_PA]

I am not sure why I keep thinking it will be an issue to direct fire with that setup on the bottom. It is bothering me why I cannot come up with the reason. In my head, I see this as a great way to set up a MLT or electric HLT, but for some stupid reason my brain is saying direct fire on that would be bad.

 

[Bobby_M]

If the bottom pipe was sealed on both ends, you'd be arming and detonating a pipe bomb right? So, with one end open to the kettle, you're at MOST going to boil the water inside the pipe if it cannot quickly equilize with the rest of the water in the keg. If that happens, steam bubbles will form and find their way into the kettle and simply rise to the surface. You kinda see these bubbles forming at the very bottom of the HLT anyway when the flame is cranking (even if the mass of water is still down in the mid 100's F.

In an MLT/BK, I would be concerned with applying a direct flame to the pipe because of scorching since it's wort not water. However, now that I've played around with my multi-jet burner and have experience plugging up certain jets, I could have easily made sure that the pipe never received a direct flame. Oh well, I already put my bulkheads in on the sides.

 

[Ryan_PA]

Still a very cool original idea. I could take those "silly" side port kegs off your hands so you could start over with this proof of concept.

 

[Kayos]

I love the "out of the box" approach. I am going to do this with my cooler.
















Just kidding

 

[mr x]

Do you plan to have an isolation valve for the sight glass? If the water in the pipe does start to flash, it may very well hammer and come back up the sightglass as well as the kettle.

 

[Bobby_M]

Honestly I don't have any plan to impliment this whatsoever. Someone had just asked me if I had to do my HLT over again (in so many words), how I would do it. Certainly there would be no problem adding a valve for the sight though since it would only take up horizontal real estate and not subract from the level reading resolution. Very good point though. I can see that happening.

 

[Atl300zx]

i am gonna go off center like so. Gravity feed still and i dont have to worry abou modifying my burner stand. I think i am gonna just stick the sight glass on the side tho to avoid any hammer issues.

 

[Ryan_PA]

Did you do the welding? Looks nice.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'd recommend running a test with the sight glass installed on this pipe directly. Just put 3 gallons of water in there and heat it to 180F with the burner running hard. If you have no problems, you're golden. The great part of running the sight off this is that it's the lowest spot in the system and will render the most resolution for you. Just my opinion. Of course, a dedicated side port works too.

Looks awesome so far.. you found a good welder.

 

[Atl300zx]

Not my pics, those are borrowed, i wish those were my welds.