Thermometer for my mash tun

[frezel]

so I decided to move up from extract to all grain brewing. I build a Rubbermaid 5 gallon mash tun and brewed about 3 batches so far with huge variations between the batches main due to temperature issues. I figured out I was losing a lot of heat from not warming the mash tun and also faulty thermometers.
I have read a lot of post from long stem thermometers to thermopens to electronic thermocouples etc. I would like to be able to fish a thermometer into my mash tun deep into the center of the bed and be able to read the temps while it sits there rather then losing heat to opening and closing. Can anyone show me pics of there mash tun mods for temp control? I kinda like the electronic PID controllers with wire probes. Anyway my first post here try not to beat up the new guy

 

[Puddlethumper]

I have read a lot of post from long stem thermometers to thermopens to electronic thermocouples etc. I would like to be able to fish a thermometer into my mash tun deep into the center of the bed and be able to read the temps while it sits there rather then losing heat to opening and closing. Can anyone show me pics of there mash tun mods for temp control? I kinda like the electronic PID controllers with wire probes. Anyway my first post here try not to beat up the new guy

I've wrestled with temperature monitoring too. I have a big Fermentap thermometer mounted to my mash tun, have tried immersion probe thermometers and several hand-held models. None have been satisfactory. Most aren't accurate and the digital ones that seem to be accurate tend to be very slow.

The Thermapen may be the best tool out there but at $85-$100 is a little steep for my pocket-book. I found this one and it has been working pretty well for me. It seems to be very accurate and reads in just about 3 seconds. I can take a reading in the mash tun then close it up right away.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HZVJM4M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Hope this helps. Cheers!

 

[frezel]

I was thinking about one of these and plunging the tip into the grain bed

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-Two-Ch...700?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d42376f14

or one of these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fahrenheit-...957?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a62ba415

they should be waterproof the probes and this would give me constant redings. I would punch a small hole and dangle the probe down.

 

[bja]

so I decided to move up from extract to all grain brewing. I build a Rubbermaid 5 gallon mash tun and brewed about 3 batches so far with huge variations between the batches main due to temperature issues. I figured out I was losing a lot of heat from not warming the mash tun and also faulty thermometers.
I have read a lot of post from long stem thermometers to thermopens to electronic thermocouples etc. I would like to be able to fish a thermometer into my mash tun deep into the center of the bed and be able to read the temps while it sits there rather then losing heat to opening and closing. Can anyone show me pics of there mash tun mods for temp control? I kinda like the electronic PID controllers with wire probes. Anyway my first post here try not to beat up the new guy

I have both a 5 and a 10 gallon cooler mash tun. Neither lose more than 1 degree during a 1 hour mash.

Are you using a brewing software that calculates the temp drop of your equipment and adjusts the strike water temp accordingly?

If you have faulty thermometers, how do you know your temp is dropping?

 

[HumulusHead]

I was thinking about one of these and plunging the tip into the grain bed



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-Two-Ch...700?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d42376f14



or one of these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fahrenheit-...957?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a62ba415



they should be waterproof the probes and this would give me constant redings. I would punch a small hole and dangle the probe down.

I like the second link you added. I've been thinking about getting a similar thermometer so I do not need to open my lid if I don't need to.

That one is actually a temperature controller, so I guess I don't know how accurate it would be for this use? I actually have a similar one (stc 1000, $17 from amazon) that I control my fridge with.

If someone can vouch for its accuracy in this situation I think it would be the ticket. You wouldn't need to use the controller feature but it will allow for easy future expansion for a fridge, electric brew setup, etc.

If you so go this route, I'd recommend the stc 1000. Seems to be the most popular and reliable one out there. Though it's only in celcius so that's a deal breaker for some...


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

I have a Thermoworks TW8060 and highly recommend them. Its a lot like the thermometer in the first link. I had a hole barely big enough to put the probe in when I had a cooler mash tun. Never lost any more than a degree or two over the course of an hour mash. With the huge variety of probes you can plug in and use it makes them a very versatile unit.

 

[stpug]

IMO, if you can tweak your system and adjust your process so that you're never losing more than a degree or two of heat then monitoring the temperature throughout the mash is a moot point. I went through a small period where I struggled with temperature loss in my 5G MLT, but through some small tweaks and process adjustments I can now keep things within a degree of where I want them. In case you're interested, my adjustments are as follows:

-Insulated my 5G cooler lid with expanding foam (this was tricky)
-Preheat MLT with +8°F strike water for 15 minutes (reserve 1 quart for later); at 15 minutes, the water is close to strike temp so I dough in
-Use plastic wrap across opening prior to screwing on lid; acts as a gasket for an airtight seal
-Refresh mash temp at midway into mash using ~1 quart of reserved strike water at near-boiling temp
-Aim to keep final mash volumes at 4-5 gallon capacity to ensure minimal headspace

These are simple equipment tweaks and process adjustments that have allowed me to not worry about slipping mash temps. I use a Thermoworks RT600C thermometer that has nearly the same accuracy and speed of the Thermoworks Thermapen for 1/5th the cost.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I think it's going to depend on your mash tun, but with mine I am able to use a cheap probe I bought at the local homebrew store. I open the cooler maybe 3 times during the mash to check temps, and I'm not losing any temperature, so I don't think it's a big deal.

The key is heating up your mash tun ahead of time with hot water. I fill mine with hot water and let it sit for about 10 mins before I start the mash. I also shake it up so make sure I am getting surface coverage. This seems to do a great job conditioning the cooler for the mash, and I don't have to worry about loosing any temperature when I'm checking my temps.

 

[Rivenin]

I usually always heat my strike water to 180-5 and dump it in. toss the lid on for 5 minutes or so and it heats the mash, i'm always around 170 once it absorbs the heat and sometimes have to let it cool off for a few minutes by stirring.

here is my thermometer setup.

a hole drilled into the tun, take a solid rubber stopper and drill a hole into it, put said rubber stopper into the tun, feed thermometer through the other side and voila!

 

[JustLooking]

a hole drilled into the tun, take a solid rubber stopper and drill a hole into it, put said rubber stopper into the tun, feed thermometer through the other side and voila!

My clumsy butt would hit that with the mash paddle and spew mash porridge all over the floor. :cross:

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

IMO, if you can tweak your system and adjust your process so that you're never losing more than a degree or two of heat then monitoring the temperature throughout the mash is a moot point

I totally agree. I'm just anal about being able to monitor everything throughout my brew day. Definitely not necessary once you know your system but I like it.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I totally agree. I'm just anal about being able to monitor everything throughout my brew day. Definitely not necessary once you know your system but I like it.

I agree with St Pug and most of the others. It is only important that you know precisely what the temperature is at a couple points in the process. That requires the most accurate and quickest reading thermometer you can afford.

Like others above I believe it is critical to preheat the mash tun and 10-15 min. is usually about right. And I have the top coming off and on a few times during the first 5-10 min. following dough-in because I'm testing pH and making adjustments anyway. A final temperature check once the pH is established tells me if I need to make temperature adjustments.

Once the temperature is set I am confident it will stay there throughout a 60 min. mash. However I do lift the lid at 40 min. and 20 min. to stir the mash and I usually check the temperature at those times. Only very rarely do I need to make any adjustments at either time.

 

[frezel]

what If you took a 12inch meat thermometer and somehow poked it threw a piece of something that floated and allowed it to sit in the cooler on top of the grain, would that work or would the temp be wrong and pick up the ambient temps? that way you could basically make a metal probe floating dohiickey and just peek in and see what it says> make sense?

 

[Puddlethumper]

what If you took a 12inch meat thermometer and somehow poked it threw a piece of something that floated and allowed it to sit in the cooler on top of the grain, would that work or would the temp be wrong and pick up the ambient temps? that way you could basically make a metal probe floating dohiickey and just peek in and see what it says> make sense?

That will work and it will tell you what that particular thermometer thinks the temperature is. But therein lies the rub. During the mash a few degrees +/- can sometimes make a noticeable difference in the finished beer, either in the gravity, the flavors, dryness vs. maltiness, etc.

That is why a lot of us get really anal about knowing exactly what that temperature is, rather than a rough approximation of the temperature. I've found as much as a 5-8F difference between two thermometers that I thought were accurate.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

That is why a lot of us get really anal about knowing exactly what that temperature is, rather than a rough approximation of the temperature. I've found as much as a 5-8F difference between two thermometers that I thought were accurate.

That's why I chose to be able to always have an eye on temps without opening the cooler. Any time I'd open the tun the mash was losing too much heat which bothered me. The units aren't the absolute fastest or most accurate on the market but they are still pretty damn good in both regards. Plus with all the probes you can use em for almost everything lol.
When it comes to it there's a bunch of great options out there, especially from Thermoworks. I think its really about what all you want to be able to do with the thermometer and what your willing to spend.

 

[Puddlethumper]

-
When it comes to it there's a bunch of great options out there, especially from Thermoworks. I think its really about what all you want to be able to do with the thermometer and what your willing to spend.

True enough!

 

[frezel]

yeah I am a cheap butt lol, actually not really. but recently I had inaccurate thermometers that ruined my batches. so I wanted to use cheap ones and multiple ones to back up my temp, how do we know these thermo pens are really accurate. do you need to calibrate them?

for example what about this one?
http://www.thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/rt610b_12+24.html
you could poke a hole at the top and just lower it down threw the grain bed, and its by a good company.

how do you guys check your gear to make sure its legit and accurate?

 

[Puddlethumper]

for example what about this one?
http://www.thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/rt610b_12+24.html
how do you guys check your gear to make sure its legit and accurate?

The one in the link is actually a little better than the one I have. Mine has an accuracy of +/- 2F while the one in your link is +/- 1.8F. If you want better accuracy than that the price starts going up pretty quickly.

If you buy a good quality instrument and take care of it you shouldn't have to check its accuracy. The instrument is made by a good company whose reputation is on the line. Something for $10 and imported from Bangladesh? Who knows?

Cheers.

 

[stpug]

Mine has an accuracy of +/- 2F while the one in your link is +/- 1.8F. If you want better accuracy than that the price starts going up pretty quickly.

You can actually get:
Thermoworks
±0.9°F
5-6 second response time
water resistant
$19 + s/h (~$25)

These are both equivalent minus the positioning of the readout:
http://www.thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/rt600c.html#Specifications
http://www.thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/rt301wa.html#Specifications

I use the former and am plenty happy with it. A thermapen get you ±0.2°F increased accuracy, and 2-3 second quicker response time, for about quadruple the cost

 

[Puddlethumper]

You can actually get:
Thermoworks
±0.9°F
5-6 second response time
water resistant
$19 + s/h (~$25)

Great link. Thanks!:rockin:

 

[chetyre]

so I decided to move up from extract to all grain brewing. I build a Rubbermaid 5 gallon mash tun and brewed about 3 batches so far with huge variations between the batches main due to temperature issues. I figured out I was losing a lot of heat from not warming the mash tun and also faulty thermometers.
I have read a lot of post from long stem thermometers to thermopens to electronic thermocouples etc. I would like to be able to fish a thermometer into my mash tun deep into the center of the bed and be able to read the temps while it sits there rather then losing heat to opening and closing. Can anyone show me pics of there mash tun mods for temp control? I kinda like the electronic PID controllers with wire probes. Anyway my first post here try not to beat up the new guy

I am have a similar problem. What did you end up doing?

 

[WhamFish]

I'd love to have something like this in my mash tun. Anyone done a mod like this?

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/temperature-probes

 

[Puddlethumper]

I'd love to have something like this in my mash tun. Anyone done a mod like this?

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/temperature-probes

That looks like a pretty fancy setup but I can see a couple problems with it right off the bat. 1) having the temperature for the MT and HLT taken from the outlet doesn't do a bit of good. With the HLT you need to know the temp of the water before you release it into the MT. By measuring temperature at the outlet you only know what you did and may now have to fix. 2) With the MT you need a probe going all the way to the center of the mash so you'll know if you're holding the right mash temperature, 3) There is no need to know the temperature of the boil kettle except if you are cooling. The boil kettle is either boiling or it's not.

I found a good, quick reading thermometer on Amazon (see link below) It works quickly, tells me exactly what I need to know almost instantly, and only cost 30 bucks.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HZVJM3S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[WhamFish]

That looks like a pretty fancy setup but I can see a couple problems with it right off the bat. 1) having the temperature for the MT and HLT taken from the outlet doesn't do a bit of good. With the HLT you need to know the temp of the water before you release it into the MT. By measuring temperature at the outlet you only know what you did and may now have to fix. 2) With the MT you need a probe going all the way to the center of the mash so you'll know if you're holding the right mash temperature, 3) There is no need to know the temperature of the boil kettle except if you are cooling. The boil kettle is either boiling or it's not.

I found a good, quick reading thermometer on Amazon (see link below) It works quickly, tells me exactly what I need to know almost instantly, and only cost 30 bucks.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HZVJM3S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I generally agree: no need to take the temp of boiling water and having the temp of the water running out of the tun also isn't so helpful. I did like the idea of having a probe mounted inside of the tun to give the temp of the mashtun while the lid was still on though. I tend to come back and check the temp every 10-15 min even though I should just let it be. If I could see the temp on the side that would be great. Do you think the middle of the grain bed holds a different temp than the edge? I'd think that a probe mounted halfway down the side would give a pretty accurate reading for the mash temp as a whole, particularly after it was stirred up with a paddle.

I do agree with you, this is a convenience upgrade, rather than a process enhancing one. I'll put it off until I've got my fermentation chamber up and running.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Do you think the middle of the grain bed holds a different temp than the edge?

I do agree with you, this is a convenience upgrade, rather than a process enhancing one. I'll put it off until I've got my fermentation chamber up and running.

Although I am sure this may vary greatly depending on the MT involved, I would think that, for all practical purposes, there is only a little difference in the temperature of the mash near the wall of the MT as opposed to the center. Below is a pic of my MT, double insulated SS, typically looses no more than 3F over a 90 min. mash. I'm making an IPA as I write this and so, because of your question, took temperature readings. After 80 min., stirring the mash every 20 min., I found a 2F difference between the mash near the wall of the kettle as opposed to the center just before stirring.

A 2F difference between the center and the edge probably isn't significant. If your mash tun is that efficient, then a reading a few inches into the mash will probably tell you much of what you need to know. If it looses heat more rapidly than that, then it may not be as useful.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I do agree with you, this is a convenience upgrade, rather than a process enhancing one. I'll put it off until I've got my fermentation chamber up and running.

Absolutely! Getting the fermentation temps right is far more important to the quality of the finished beer.

 

[troy2000]

Buy one of these from Northern Brewing: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/kewler-thermothingy.html

Or maybe not. I ordered one the other day, but have since seen a couple of threads where people had trouble installing them without leaks, stripped threads, etc.

Tell you what: hold off for a few days, until mine gets here and I try installing it. It could be the other posters were just non-mechanically inclined klutzes, or it could be a piece of junk. I'll update you on how it goes....

A cute suggestion I've seen for temperature control, if your grain bill and water leave an air space, is to float a disc of some sort of foam on it. I%2

 

[Puddlethumper]

Tell you what: hold off for a few days, until mine gets here and I try installing it. It could be the other posters were just non-mechanically inclined klutzes, or it could be a piece of junk. I'll update you on how it goes....

I've got a Fermentap dial thermometer on my mash tun. I call it a "wonder thermometer" because I can look at it and wonder what the temperature really is. Using a very accurate (+/- 1.5F) thermometer I find the dial thermometer may be off by as much as 5-6F. That's not close enough for brewing, IMO.

 

[troy2000]

I've got a Fermentap dial thermometer on my mash tun. I call it a "wonder thermometer" because I can look at it and wonder what the temperature really is. Using a very accurate (+/- 1.5F) thermometer I find the dial thermometer may be off by as much as 5-6F. That's not close enough for brewing, IMO.

I believe there are accurate dial thermometers to be had. There are also digital thermometers with the same sort of probe the dial thermometers have...

 

[Puddlethumper]

You may be right. But in my experience so far, the dial thermometers are pretty much a crap-shoot. The one I have on my MT cost almost 30 bucks and I have found that it may be off by as much as 7F. I can calibrate it with the screw on the back, but it takes an accurate digital thermometer to tell me what to calibrate it to. And I still have to wrap it with my knuckle every once in a while to make sure it didn't get hung up. I can't help asking myself, what's the point in having two thermometers?

 

[troy2000]

You may be right. But in my experience so far, the dial thermometers are pretty much a crap-shoot. The one I have on my MT cost almost 30 bucks and I have found that it may be off by as much as 7F. I can calibrate it with the screw on the back, but it takes an accurate digital thermometer to tell me what to calibrate it to. And I still have to wrap it with my knuckle every once in a while to make sure it didn't get hung up. I can't help asking myself, what's the point in having two thermometers?

A man who owns a watch always knows what time it is. A man who owns two watches is never sure.

Sorry; couldn't resist.

Apparently, the answer is to stick to digital thermometers. Although I have a digital probe thermometer, a dial probe thermometer, and a folding digital thermometer, and they always seem to agree within a degree or so....

 

[Puddlethumper]

A man who owns a watch always knows what time it is. A man who owns two watches is never sure.

..

LOL

Apparently, the answer is to stick to digital thermometers. .

I'm not saying it's the answer for everyone, but it is the one I've come to.

 

[WhamFish]

Yea, I guess what I had in mind was like a perminantly mounted probe like the one in my link that would interface with a digital display, I guess it could even be interfaced with an arduino/RPi to send temp graphs over WiFi.

The upside/utility would be in both seeing the temp and in being able to save the mashtun temp profile graph for the batch for future reference. Again, a luxury but seems appealing.

I've got a digital one that is similar to the one linked above. I think its accurate but it doesn't go very deep in the mash. Any thoughts on if there's a temp difference from bottom to top?

Thanks for taking the temps during your process, thats useful info.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Don't get me wrong, I'm thinking you have a start on a good idea there. I would just do it a little differently than the way they had it set up. A probe into the HLT and the MT would work. Your call if you even need one for the BK, however if you use a counterflow chiller it could be very useful to install a sensor at the output.

The only concern beyond that is the accuracy of the units. If they are accuarate +/- 1.5F you have the makings of a pretty cool setup.

Cheers!