The Saison Thread

[Gestalten]

Good that you got approved quickly. It's a great group. Good mixture of homebrew, commercial breweries, tasting notes, etc.

The person who posted the replies provided a lot of helpful Dupont information to the group aside from those comments, so I think his comments there are certainly fairly credible.

And I agree that there's no development by Brett. I didn't think that was in question. And I don't think (m)any outside the brewery really know if there is Brett in primary or whether the "wild yeast" is something like Brett, a wild strain of Sacch, or something else entirely. However, based on everything that I've seen over the past few years, I don't think Saison Dupont is primary fermented solely by a single strain of Sacch. C.

Whatever is used, I think most (if not all) of us can agree that it tastes amazing! Luckily we have it on tap in the basement, so I think I'm going to go grab a glass

Who is that guy? Someone who works at the brewery? It's interesting and all, I was just hoping for some real analysis or a paper or something to nerd out on.
A couple interesting things from Farmhouse ales is 1) the theory that the prime mover in their primary ferment is actually a mutated wine yeast. 2) That you can replicate the trademark DuPont profile with a single yeast.
Oh also the similarity in approach to fermentation between wine makers and DuPont specifically. Basically going as hot as possible early on and getting primary finished quickly so secondary can begin.
I'd be curious to know if there was a blend of sacch strains going on. I wonder how they could manage to maintain balance in them for so long though. You'd think their beers would be much more variable.

 

[Gestalten]

Opened a Dec. 2014 Avec last night, and it had no trace of what I tasted as brett contribution in other vintages. It was delicious, but definitely different from 2013 and some others I've had. I also have an 06 bottle I'll open with a friend's 08 at some point, so can report back as/when that happens.

I was just thinking of starting to age those. Any idea what the sweet spot may be?

 

[tehzachatak]

Much sadness that Enlightenment is no longer around. Had Verdance last night. That Grisette is every bit as good as Side Project or Clara. Perfect carb. Bright and crisp.

Little Lobster on the Prairie was similarly delicious with a green apple tartness, lovely carb, and clean body. It was a defunct brewery showdown.

There's still Verdance kicking around. I buy every single bottle every time I see it in a store. So ******* good.

 

[Calcifer]

There's still Verdance kicking around. I buy every single bottle every time I see it in a store. So ******* good.

ISO

 

[drgarage1]

I was just thinking of starting to age those. Any idea what the sweet spot may be?

I really don't. Best bottle I've had was about three years old, but that might have been about a great vintage, not ideal age.

 

[falc0n26001]

Apex Predator, for instance, is just a single Sach strain, correct? It's quite tart and, while not funky, definitely very interesting for an American saison.

 

[Farnsworth]

It's quite tart and, while not funky, definitely very interesting for an American saison.

Tart Apex Predator?
That sounds scrumptious, but I don't think I have ever experienced an Apex Predator that was even remotely tart.

 

[falc0n26001]

Tart Apex Predator?
That sounds scrumptious, but I don't think I have ever experienced an Apex Predator that was even remotely tart.

Well. Not a lactic tartness. Certainly not sour. But definitely... tart like a tropical fruit. Not puckering. Maybe tart isn't the right word because people immediately think of bacteria.

 

[Thorpe]

Who is that guy? Someone who works at the brewery? It's interesting and all, I was just hoping for some real analysis or a paper or something to nerd out on.
A couple interesting things from Farmhouse ales is 1) the theory that the prime mover in their primary ferment is actually a mutated wine yeast. 2) That you can replicate the trademark DuPont profile with a single yeast.
Oh also the similarity in approach to fermentation between wine makers and DuPont specifically. Basically going as hot as possible early on and getting primary finished quickly so secondary can begin.
I'd be curious to know if there was a blend of sacch strains going on. I wonder how they could manage to maintain balance in them for so long though. You'd think their beers would be much more variable.

He worked at the U.S. importer for Dupont. Unfortunately no papers or anything, if only! On the house character, I'm guessing there's a single Sacch. strain that is dominant but that there are minor influences from others that happen to be around whether or not they're added intentionally. I also think the majority of it is coming from their process and they probably can achieve something almost identical with a single strain, but who knows. The mystique is fun!

Apex Predator, for instance, is just a single Sach strain, correct? It's quite tart and, while not funky, definitely very interesting for an American saison.

Yes, I believe it's solely fermented by the Blaugies strain.

Tart Apex Predator?
That sounds scrumptious, but I don't think I have ever experienced an Apex Predator that was even remotely tart.

I don't think "tart" is the right word, but I think there is a very minor acidity in the finish, more so almost the same sensation I get from an acidic beer just in very minor amounts. I don't think this is too surprising, as I believe the Yeast Bay (and potentially a few others) have saison strains that they claim can produce a very small amount of tartness.

 

[Thorpe]

Well. Not a lactic tartness. Certainly not sour. But definitely... tart like a tropical fruit. Not puckering. Maybe tart isn't the right word because people immediately think of bacteria.

Yes, completely agree with this.

 

[quirk6]

scrumptious

I was just recently thinking to myself that no one uses the word scrumptious and here I am proven wrong. A commercial they play at work uses that word and it not only sounds odd to me but makes me think of Seinfeld every time.

 

[Snarf1]

I'd be curious to know if there was a blend of sacch strains going on. I wonder how they could manage to maintain balance in them for so long though. You'd think their beers would be much more variable.

I dont have the link saved on this device, but the Dupont article of several years ago (link somewhere in this thread?) states that the brewery uses 3 or 4 yeast strains. Not blended, but sequentially. One strain for primary, one strain if the primary strain doesnt hit terminal in 96hrs, one strain for conditioning, and one for bottle refermentation - or something like that.

 

[jupiter6xx]

Cross posted from the DDT. Love this beer. I generally think these are way more Anchorage than HF but that's not a bad thing at all. This is batch 2 & the only batch I've ever had, but I hope to get my hands on some of the new batch somehow. I'm impressed that after almost 2 years the brett isn't totally overpowering everything.

 

[MooseLang]

Wasn't sure what to expect with this beer. Ended up loving it. Slight brandy character, nice Brett funk, and a slight fruity tartness. Now that everyone has caught up to - and surpassed - Allagash pricing, I don't mind buying something this good for $12.50.

 

[drgarage1]

Wasn't sure what to expect with this beer. Ended up loving it. Slight brandy character, nice Brett funk, and a slight fruity tartness. Now that everyone has caught up to - and surpassed - Allagash pricing, I don't mind buying something this good for $12.50.

A shame it will be $18 out here.

 

[Calcifer]

Been drinking the **** outta Brew Gentlemen saisons lately. They've been killing it.

 

[PurityControl88]

X post. So this is basically just straight, aged beer from a foeder, correct? It reminds me of an unblended lambic in that it's oaky and slightly sour with a really layered funk. You could blend this into all kinds of stuff.

 

[Gus13]

X post. So this is basically just straight, aged beer from a foeder, correct? It reminds me of an unblended lambic in that it's oaky and slightly sour with a really layered funk. You could blend this into all kinds of stuff.

That's what I've taken that beer to be. Provision or Vieille Saisons were aged to be drank straight or blended.

Does anyone remember who sued who in the naming game? And what names that involved?

 

[TheMitz]

That's what I've taken that beer to be. Provision or Vieille Saisons were aged to be drank straight or blended.

Does anyone remember who sued who in the naming game? And what names that involved?

I think Trinity was involved (of ******* course) for "saison" or "saison vieille" or something. I remember the first couple batching of Vieille were labeled just Saison in big letters.

I cant remember what the outcome actually was other than the label change.

 

[holldy01]

Had this the other day. Was fairly sweet and malty. At first there was some wine tannic funk to it but as it warmed it lost it. What I would expect a BA Zombie Dust to taste like if zombie dust was a bit fuller bodied and slightly spiced.

 

[jbeezification1]

I think Trinity was involved (of ******* course) for "saison" or "saison vieille" or something. I remember the first couple batching of Vieille were labeled just Saison in big letters.

I cant remember what the outcome actually was other than the label change.

Per the Google

http://www.westword.com/restaurants...inity-brewing-in-sour-trademark-fight-6883194

 

[tylerk88]

This is so great. Super delicate. Grape skin, lemon and whatever that signature Side Project funk is.

 

[iong516]

I never try to trade for SP and haven't really had anything from them besides a Grisette I stumbled upon in an easy IP trade and pours of a few sours at Shelton (not really my thing). Which of their saisons should I ...investigate?

 

[ASUBeer]

I never try to trade for SP and haven't really had anything from them besides a Grisette I stumbled upon in an easy IP trade and pours of a few sours at Shelton (not really my thing). Which of their saisons should I ...investigate?

Saison du Ble is my favorite.

 

[tylerk88]

I never try to trade for SP and haven't really had anything from them besides a Grisette I stumbled upon in an easy IP trade and pours of a few sours at Shelton (not really my thing). Which of their saisons should I ...investigate?

SdF is my favorite. I know people go nuts over the fruited stuff, but unless super fresh, I find they get very acidic. SdB, and BdP are other great options, too.

 

[iong516]

Are any of those not entirely a pain in the ass to trade for?

 

[abawol01]

Are any of those not entirely a pain in the ass to trade for?

Do any of them not say Side Project on them? Then no, they are all a bitch to get.

 

[Gonzoillini1]

I never try to trade for SP and haven't really had anything from them besides a Grisette I stumbled upon in an easy IP trade and pours of a few sours at Shelton (not really my thing). Which of their saisons should I ...investigate?

Fermier batch 1 was my favorite American Saison I think I've ever had, but subsequent batches have only been great not life changing.

Du Ble is very solid and I like Du Pays a good amount as well.

I'm happy that we have a guy in STL who is just a good dude and sends up whatever extra he can get for a few of us to share. Wouldn't want to deal with the open market on Side Project.

 

[wuntrikpony]

Are any of those not entirely a pain in the ass to trade for?

As a self proclaimed SP hater, the easier to get saisons I enjoyed were du Ble, du Pays, Marietta, and Biere de Fantasie. People go nuts over Fermier, but I've found it to be overpoweringly sour both times I've tried. Most of the rest of SP is sour as ****.

 

[iong516]

No sour wanted :|