The obligatory newby question - AG

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bobjenkins79

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MOD edit: I've moved it to the AG forum. It'll get a better audience. : Orfy


Alright, I've got my recipe and all my ingredients, I just need some equipment.

I have (3) 16 gal SS kegs of questionable origin.

I gather that one of them is to be the boiling pot. I already cut the top out of it. So then does one need to be a HLT, and the other a mash tun?

I guess I'm just a little foggy on all that.

I would really like to know how other people sparge. I understand that you are recirculating wort back into the mash tun until it starts running clear, but I don't know why you couldn't just lightly pour it back in, w/o making some fancy sprinkler apparatus?

I just orderd a 30 ft. immersion style wort chiller off ebay for $47. (Good deal, I think?)

I'd really like a solid definition for what strike water is all about.

Also, can I basically use the same procedure for converting the 10gal rubbermaid cooler to make a mash tun out of a keg?:confused:

Maybe I should add that I'm not particularly intelligent, and all the pictures I can get are greatly appreciated.:)

Thanks in advance

bob
 
Wow, jumping into all grain right from the get go, eh? I like the cut of your jib!

Yes, one of the keggles should be your boiling pot. Most people don't use a direct fire mash-tun, but you certainly can! You'd fire the burner until the strike water was the correct temp, add the grain, then heat it back up to the temp you want. To lauter in it, you'd need to have a false bottom installed, and a spigot on one of the keggles. Many people use a cooler for their MLT, and also use it to lauter along with mashing in it.

Strike water is the water you use to get the mash to mashing temp. The mash is basically grain + hot water. For the water sprinkler, you can use a colander which works for some people.

www.howtobrew.com describes better how to batch sparge or fly sparge, and doing all-grain brewing in general.
 
Hopefully I'm figuring this out.

I think I'm going to go w/ the SS braid. It seems like I read a lot of people complaining about false bottoms not working right.

Basically, you mash your grains in one pot while heating water in another, (HLT). Then you add the water from the HLT to the mash tun, vorlaufing in the beginning until the wort is clear?

Then it all goes into the boiling pot until you reach the desired SG?

I told you guys I was dumb:cross:
 
Bah Humbug said:
And Brave.........

If you've not done it yet spend some time with howtobrew.com
This may help a little. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=45921


That is an excellent thread! Thanks a ton. :rockin: Things are beginning to really make sense, now.

It seems like all I've done is research,research, research. Text is great, but a picture is worth a thousand words. This is a big step forward. Thanks a ton.

:mug: bob
 
Hehe. My first batch was extract. Then I went AG. And to boot, I thought I'd just pick up some old fashioned hand crank chopper to 'crush' my grains LOL. Well fortunately, I have a Cuisinart. 'Crushing' a little over 10 lbs of grain in a Cuisinart is an experience I won't soon forget. My efficiency was good nonetheless, and the brew turned out swell (was an Oatmeal Stout, and man was I worried about a stuck sparge too). Live and learn. Over time, you realize what you can substitute/compensate for and what cannot be screwed around with. Just relax and have fun.

So, just read the steps a million times and come brew day when your nerves are on edge and you got that grain in the tun, just relax hehe. It'll all work out. If your efficiency is low, it'll work out. In time you'll be doing it blindfolded (or in your sleep iirc as Palmer talks about in his book :D).

Strike water is particularly important though. You must get your mash in between 146 and about 154. Anywhere in there is good really. Worry about the details later. Just work hard to get it in there. And I'd also suggest that you pick up a tincture of Iodine at CVS, Walgreens or the like. It is REALLY helpful when testing for conversion. That way you aren't just guessing. The 60 minute rule is NOT a hard fast rule. It is deeply wrapped in several factors but I won't overwhelm you with them now :D. Just use those equations for strike water, and if you don't know how to do that get some software...or just post your total grain amount, ambient temperature of the grain, grain/water ratio and the temperature you want to mash at and somebody can run the numbers for you.

Just have fun!
 
It sounds like you're eventually going to end up with a rig similar to my own, so I will chime in here with some basics about my equipment and process.


Equipment

Mash/Lauter Tun I took a keg like yours and added a Zymico weldless conversion kit to it. This gives a ball valve and barb on the outside of the keg as well as a threaded fitting on the inside. Connected to that fitting, I have a stainless dip tube and false bottom.

Some people have issues with grain sneaking under the false bottom, but I don't. I think two things contrinute to this. First, the false bottom I use is not simply a flat piece of steel. In my experience, these are never quite flat, and they don't form a good seal to the bottom of the keg. Instead, mine is somewhat domed at the center, then has a turned-up lip which fits quite nicely into the bottom of the keg. Second, I added a stainless hose clamp around the dip tube to keep the false bottom from rising more than about 1/32".

Hot Liquor Tank This is another keg with a weldless conversion, but the inside just has a simple dip tube that goes down to the pickup well at the center of the bottom. It never has anything except water in it, so there's no need for any kind of filter or screen.

Boiler In contrast, there's all kinds of crap to filter out of the boil. I was concerned about trapping wort under a false bottom, so I opted to used a Zymico Bazooka tube as the screen in this one. I did make a custom dip tube arrangement for it to get it as close to the bottom as I could, as I was leaving too much wort behind. This filters out hops and break material with no problems.

Burners I have three of these, on stands I welded up out of angle iron. You can get by with only one, but you will be lifting hot, heavy things up and down if you choose to do that. If you have burnrs but no stands, you can use tables, bricks, terrain, etc. to form your tiers. I use a two-and-a-half tier system with one pump to reduce overall height of the rig, but three-tier systems don't need any pumps at all. Arrange the boiler at the bottom at such a height that your outflow can be easily directed into your fermenter. Your mashtun goes in teh middles so it can flow to the boiler, and your HLT goes on top so that it can flow to your mashtun.

Sparge Device I use a fixed sprinklerhead in a wooden frame which sits on top of my mashtun. I tried the Phil's Sparge Arm and had issues with it. I've also done the aluminum-foil-with-holes-in-it thing. So far, the current setup works best. Your milage will, of course, vary.

Chiller I use an immersion chiller I made from 50 feet of 3/8" soft copper tubing.

Mill You don't have to have a mill, but it's a nice touch. Really, all you need is access to a mill. Your FLHBS probably has one you can use.


Process

Calculate I have a spreadsheet I use to calculate my mash volumes and temperatures based on my grist weight and water:grain ratio. The calculations are not terribly complex, but do require some work with a pencil. My spreadheet is based on calculations in The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing. There are also online calculators you can use.

Mill Grain Again, this may be done for you at the shop.

Measure and Heat Strike Water I fill my mashtun with water using my graduated mash paddle to measure, then fire up the burner. In general, I dough in with 1.25 quarts of water per pound of grain, and heat it to about 163 degrees F. I pour in my crushed grain and stir well, breaking up all the doughballs I can find, then leave it alone for 60 to 90 minutes.

Measure and Heat Mashout Water As the mash winds down, I heat water for mashout. The idea is to raise the temperature of the grain to 168 degrees to stop enzymatic activity. For a 25-pound mash, I heat about three and a quarter gallons of water to a boil, then add this to the mashtun and give it a quick stir.

Measure and Heat Sparge Water For the same 25-pound mash, I'll need about four and three-quarter gallons of sparge water. This get heated to 175 degrees or so, and the sparge device gets set up.

Vorlauf I recirculate a few quarts from the bottom of the mash to the top. This removes any particles that snuck past the false bottom and sets up the filter bed. Then I set up the tube from the mashtun to the boiler.

Runoff I crack the valve on the mashtun to allow a nice slow runoff, and allow a balanced amount of sparge water to flow in from the HLT. It should take about an hour to run off enough wort to fill your boiler.

Heat Toward Boil Fire up the burner under the boiler and get cooking. I skim the dull-colored protien foam that rises - it helps to prevent boilovers and seems to result in clearer beer in the glass. As you get close to a boil, you'll want to be ready to kill the heat at a moment's notice - boilovers happen FAST in homebrewing.

Boil Follow the recipe's schedule here. I typically boil 60 to 90 minutes, making several hop additions along the way. You'll still need to keep any eye out for boilovers. Use just enough heat to get a nice rolling boil so that everything swirls around in the pot. It's worth noting that my rig doesn't like pellet hops - the sludge gums up the Bazooka tube - so I use only whole and plug hops (plugs are compressed whole hops, but they're not processed into minute particles like pellets are).

Chill Turn off the heat and turn on the water flow through the chiller. Last check that everything is sanitized. When you can hold your hand on the outside of the boiler, you're getting close.

Drop To Fermenter(s) Just as it sounds - let the beer flow to the fermenters and put airlocks on them. Oxygenate if you can. Pitch your yeast and clean everything up.
 
This is becoming more and more clear. :rockin: I'm curious about this bazooka screen, is it pretty much the same idea as an SS braid? I saw a pic of one on homebrewery.com, and it looks to have more surface area.

I spent most of last night cutting the top out of one of my kegs. I don't have a welder, so I had to use a little 1/4 in. grinder. Talk about slow moving!! I've got it buffed out real nice now. Do you guys usually use a spade bit to cut the hole for the ball valve?

:off: I went to Lowes for the ball valve & related components last night. I put them together to make sure it would all work, and then went to the checkout counter. The brain surgeon at the cashier station only charged me for the ball valve and braid. I guess sometimes it's good when people are dumb:ban:

bob
 
bobjenkins79 said:
I'm curious about this bazooka screen, is it pretty much the same idea as an SS braid? I saw a pic of one on homebrewery.com, and it looks to have more surface area.

Do you guys usually use a spade bit to cut the hole for the ball valve?

It's effectively the same thing as the steel braid. Some people use them in their mashtun, but I like the false bottom that covers more area. I would think that using the steel braid in the boiler would not give enough flow, as it might not be open enough. The Bazooka is made of stainless screen that's tight, but not too tight.

I did use a stainless scrubber like Bah Humbug showed in his thread for a while, but I eventually had problems with it. It would get plugged up with break material and hops. Can't recall if that was pellets though.

I think a spade bit would be the wrong tool to cut a hole in a keg - I used a hole saw, and one guy I know used a step drill.
 
I put together an alternative to the rubbermaid cooler tun, more work, but performs like a champ. Check my sig.

-RS
 
Bah Humbug said:
Look at my thread again the bazooka does tha same as my 10c scrubie...(If you use leaf hops)

Ahhh... I get it. I had wondered about getting all the wort out w/ the height of the spigot, etc. I bet it'll be fun to route that pick-up tube. I think your scrubie is the same thing I clean my pots with:D

New question, do you guys do anything w/ the keg valve after you cut the top out, or just pitch it? Seems like a waste to just throw away the pickup tube & all.....

Hopefully I'll reread this thread a year from now and laugh at myself.:)
 
Looks like the 3 burner idea is going to be a winner. I know I can run 2 burners off my single propane cylinder, but I'm pretty sure 3 burners isn't possible. do you guys mostly use multiple tanks?

Also, I wonder if there is a fairly accurate analog style thermometer y'all would recommend? (I've read a lot of posts where people have crappy ones). I was just curious about that.

I assume the mashout water comes from the HLT?

I can't wait to get this sh$t done and post some pics of my ugly junk:mug:

bob
 
bobjenkins79 said:
You dont happen to have any pics of that laying around, do you?

Not handy. Basically, it's three pieces of 1 by 3 screwed together into an H shape. The crossbar of the H is on the underside and just fits into the opening of my mashtun. The uprights sit on the edge, but fit inside the upper skirt of the keg. All of this means it doesn't move around a whole lot.

The center of the crossbar has a 7/8" (I think) hole drilled in it, and there's a brass full-circle shrubbery sprinkler head friction-fit in there. In the back of the sprinkler head, there's a brass street elbow, and the other side of the elbow has a hose barb in it. The metal parts got loose and started wiggling around in the hole, so I gooped it up with some 5-minute epoxy. It's going nowhere now.

I just feed the hose barb with hot water pumped up from my hot liquor tank. By adjusting the little screw inside the orifice of the spirnkler head, I can shape the spray cone a bit and make sure it actually does spray instead of dribbling. The outflow of the pump has a ball valve on it for flow control.

If you have three tiers, you can dispense with the pump and feed with gravity.
 
bobjenkins79 said:
Looks like the 3 burner idea is going to be a winner. I know I can run 2 burners off my single propane cylinder, but I'm pretty sure 3 burners isn't possible. do you guys mostly use multiple tanks?

I use 2 tanks. Once the strike water is hot, I don't need the burner under the mashtun, so I move that tank over to the boiler.

I'd bet you could do it with one tank just by using a manifold with needle valves for each burner - I don't think I run two at a time in my process, and clearly not three.

Yes, mashout water get heated in the HLT.
 
bobjenkins79 said:
I would really like to know how other people sparge.

... and all the pictures I can get are greatly appreciated.:)
Hey Bob, put away one of those kegs, get a cooler and check out this site:

http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

Pictures included.

Keep it simple for your first couple of brews and get the process down before you worry about extra equipment. Figure out what does/doesn't work for you and build upon that.
 
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