American IPA The New West Coast IPA

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I happened to see this youtube video and around the 22 minute mark, he mentions "yeast soaking up hop flavor" and how too much yeast can be a problem. I've never heard of this before, has anyone experienced or experimented with this?
 
I happened to see this youtube video and around the 22 minute mark, he mentions "yeast soaking up hop flavor" and how too much yeast can be a problem. I've never heard of this before, has anyone experienced or experimented with this?

The way he is explaining it is not correct. Yeast cells can have a positive attraction to certain hop compounds. So when they the yeast cells become inactive and drop out of solution, they can draw hop compounds with them.

To combat this, folks practice soft crashing. Dropping temps prior to dryhoping to cause the most yeast to drop out prior to the hops going on
 
The way he is explaining it is not correct. Yeast cells can have a positive attraction to certain hop compounds. So when they the yeast cells become inactive and drop out of solution, they can draw hop compounds with them.

To combat this, folks practice soft crashing. Dropping temps prior to dryhoping to cause the most yeast to drop out prior to the hops going on
it seems to be a double edged sword, if not enough yeast in suspension you can also get undesirables. I forget which panel but in one panel they where speaking about dryhopping after fuge resulting in garbage smell beer.
 
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it seems to be a double edged sword, if not enough yeast in suspension you can also get undesirables. I forget which panel but in one panel they where speaking about dryhopping after fuge resulting in garbage smell beer.
if you find it, I would love to read up on that. Obviously we can’t even get remotely close to CF a beer but I’d be interested in the design of the experience and the outcomes
 
The way he is explaining it is not correct. Yeast cells can have a positive attraction to certain hop compounds. So when they the yeast cells become inactive and drop out of solution, they can draw hop compounds with them.

To combat this, folks practice soft crashing. Dropping temps prior to dryhoping to cause the most yeast to drop out prior to the hops going on
Although as a counter point, many breweries still like to dry hop with ~ 1 degree plato left in active fermentation and are able to achieve excellent aroma. Perhaps the additional oxygen scrubbing occurring from the yeast offsets to a degree any aroma loss from yeast in suspension. Either way, it seems to be an example of competing goals.
 
Although as a counter point, many breweries still like to dry hop with ~ 1 degree plato left in active fermentation and are able to achieve excellent aroma. Perhaps the additional oxygen scrubbing occurring from the yeast offsets to a degree any aroma loss from yeast in suspension. Either way, it seems to be an example of competing goals.
All breweries make decision based on logistics for their systems, capabilities, and price points . My local who makes very solid IPAs, add their dry hops with 2-2.5*p (roughly 8 points in sg left), starts crashing and closes it up. For his system this allows him to rouse the hops, naturally carbonate, and get a level of aroma and flavor they are happy with it. Also helps from a cost perspective

And I know a local whale that waits til ferm is complete. Preforms some cone dumps, then dryhops with a hop cannon, and begins to crash. They will rouse with co2 as well.

We aren’t worried about profit margins as homebrewers so we do have some liberties breweries do not.
 
if you find it, I would love to read up on that. Obviously we can’t even get remotely close to CF a beer but I’d be interested in the design of the experience and the outcomes
found it


The funny thing is, I've heard some australian hype brewers pushing a new dryhopping technique that is exactly that procedure, fuge the beer clean then dryhop. forgot how they called it.
 
They call it clean fusion. I was thinking the same thing. Brewery is called one drop. They make some great beers to be fair but seem determined to coin the next DDH or hdhc or whatever.
 
They call it clean fusion. I was thinking the same thing. Brewery is called one drop. They make some great beers to be fair but seem determined to coin the next DDH or hdhc or whatever.
Have you had any of those beers? be interesting to know how they taste
 
I think I'm going to switch to biofine. In starting to feel like gelatin strips a ton of hol character.

I brewed an all Mosaic wcipa and pre findings it was incredible hop bomb. After finings it lost a fair bit of flavor and aroma but was brilliantly clear.

My closed transfer process is tight, so I know that's not the problem.
 
I think I'm going to switch to biofine. In starting to feel like gelatin strips a ton of hol character.

I brewed an all Mosaic wcipa and pre findings it was incredible hop bomb. After finings it lost a fair bit of flavor and aroma but was brilliantly clear.

My closed transfer process is tight, so I know that's not the problem.
New West coast style is also a bit hazy these days.
 
New West coast style is also a bit hazy these days.
I feel it’s quite rare that they have a haze to them. They aren’t all brilliantly clear but def pretty much. That said I have had some modern west from fidens that were hazy as hell, but I also think that’s mainly them trying to get cans on the shelf’s to keep up with demand
 
@Dgallo

What about biofine or gelatin before the dry hop? Could have a similar effect.
I do not know as I’ve never tried but I’m assuming it would have a similar effect. my only concerns with this practice would be the additional transfer increasing o2 risks and if you do rack to dryhop, I’d be worried some of the biofine would go back in solution and pull the dryhops down immediately. That said you could always rouse if/when possible
 
I feel it’s quite rare that they have a haze to them. They aren’t all brilliantly clear but def pretty much. That said I have had some modern west from fidens that were hazy as hell, but I also think that’s mainly them trying to get cans on the shelf’s to keep up with demand
How would you define this haze?
Even stone would have some of the haze im talking about back in the days.
I mean it is still clear but if you watch closely it has small particles in it.
 

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Have you had any of those beers? be interesting to know how they taste
Yeah I've had their "clean fusion" beers. I mean, they are one of the best ipa brewers in Australia so their beers are usually pretty solid. Haven't been able to do a side by side comparison to see how much better their beers are with this process but what I can say is that I wasn't rushing out to try and do it myself. To me it's just an extension of what I currently do anyway by dropping all the yeast out before dry hopping. I use a fermzilla so I can remove the collection tub and have pretty clean beer to dry hop with. It would make a good brulosophy experiment though....
 
I’ve been on a kick brewing these, this is one I did back in January for my “6th anniversary” of homebrewing. West Coast Triple IPA, 6 different hops dry hopped around 8lb/bbl. Probably my favorite west coast I’ve done, I’ve been playing around with different ways to add a subtle clean maltiness without using crystal and I’ve settled on using about 5-10% Vienna in most of mine. This hop combo is awesome as well, the mosaic and Simcoe are the perfect old/new blend and the NZ hops play off of them nicely (Nectaron is a perfect west coast IPA hop, better than NE in my opinion). The Nelson CGX leaned dank here so have earmarked it for exclusively WCIPA. My only change for next time is pumping that IBU up to 130/140, I think a more firm bitterness would round this out nicely. Picture is actually from my last can that I opened in April (so was like 2-3 mos old), color is good there but it was a touch lighter at packaging. This got a couple medals, a silver and a bronze in DIPA categories, the only real knock was that the bitterness was a little too soft - I also don't think judges appreciate NZ hops in "American IPA" type categories in competitions as much as I do when drinking WCIPA but this was more brewed for my palate/drinking experience than to fit BJCP.

OG: 1.086
FG: 1.010
ABV: 10.2%
Calculated IBU: 108
Yeast: WLP001

GRAIN
90% 2 row
5% Vienna
5% Dextrose

HOPS
1oz CTZ (44 ibu) at 60
1.5 oz CTZ (41 ibu) at 20
WP: 2oz Nectaron, 2oz Simcoe, 20g Mosaic Incognito (30 mins at 165ish - mosaic incognito was dip hopped with the NP method - approx 21 ibu total)

DH: 6oz Simcoe, 6oz Mosaic, 4oz Nectaron, 3oz Strata CGX, 3oz Nelson CGX, 2oz Columbus lupomax. Approx 36 hours at 40ish degrees, agitated 2-3 times. This was done post fermentation off of the yeast. Added my biofine in with the dry hop to prevent having to open up the fermenter/keg multiple times.

Water was 300:50 SO4:Cl (with 10ppm mg), adjusted mash to 5.2 and then knockout at 5.0 with phosphoric
 

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I'm en route to the US from Australia as we speak. Nola & NYC. Does anyone have any recommendations for me in terms of breweries to try that are doing this style (and IPAs in general) well. I know there is not as much of a craft beer scene in New Orleans but New York should be a different story I presume. I will be in Brooklyn/Manhattan for a day and then upstate to Pine Hill. Any recommendations appreciated!
 
I'm en route to the US from Australia as we speak. Nola & NYC. Does anyone have any recommendations for me in terms of breweries to try that are doing this style (and IPAs in general) well. I know there is not as much of a craft beer scene in New Orleans but New York should be a different story I presume. I will be in Brooklyn/Manhattan for a day and then upstate to Pine Hill. Any recommendations appreciated!
These are all solid.
Brooklyn
Other half, Grimm, king county brewers collective (KCBC),

Queens
Finback, singlecut.
 
Thanks mate. Yeah I've been to Grimm & Other Half which we're both great. I still remember looking around in shock as people we swilling 10.5% pints of triple IPA on a Sunday afternoon!
 
Thanks mate. Yeah I've been to Grimm & Other Half which we're both great. I still remember looking around in shock as people we swilling 10.5% pints of triple IPA on a Sunday afternoon!
Yeah, here in the US you have to double check that the Pale Ale on the board is not 6.5% ABV. On my recent trip to NZ, there was always a 5% Hazy Pale Ales or two on tap, but it is a style that is almost non-existent here. It seems that the only thing that sells better than a 8% IPA, is a 9.5% IPA. o_O
 
Thanks mate. Yeah I've been to Grimm & Other Half which we're both great. I still remember looking around in shock as people we swilling 10.5% pints of triple IPA on a Sunday afternoon!
Don't forget US pints are smaller, they're not far off an Aussie schooner.
 
I'm en route to the US from Australia as we speak. Nola & NYC. Does anyone have any recommendations for me in terms of breweries to try that are doing this style (and IPAs in general) well. I know there is not as much of a craft beer scene in New Orleans but New York should be a different story I presume. I will be in Brooklyn/Manhattan for a day and then upstate to Pine Hill. Any recommendations appreciated!
Honestly I think in NYC the most efficient use of your time is going to be hitting beer bars vs breweries. You'll get a wider variety of stuff and NYC has a higher concentration of great beer bars than pretty much anywhere else. Beer Street (2 locations), Harlem Hops, Bierwax, Torst, Gold Star, Beer Run, As Is, Blind Tiger just to name a few. They don't use untappd as much for taplists there for some reason, most places use BeerMenus, just a heads up
 
Yeah, here in the US you have to double check that the Pale Ale on the board is not 6.5% ABV. On my recent trip to NZ, there was always a 5% Hazy Pale Ales or two on tap, but it is a style that is almost non-existent here. It seems that the only thing that sells better than a 8% IPA, is a 9.5% IPA. o_O
This is true. I actually really like the 5.5% DDH hazy pale ale style. I find it more of a challenge to brew too because everything has got to be properly balanced or the mouthfeel is way off. But I digress!
 
Honestly I think in NYC the most efficient use of your time is going to be hitting beer bars vs breweries. You'll get a wider variety of stuff and NYC has a higher concentration of great beer bars than pretty much anywhere else. Beer Street (2 locations), Harlem Hops, Bierwax, Torst, Gold Star, Beer Run, As Is, Blind Tiger just to name a few. They don't use untappd as much for taplists there for some reason, most places use BeerMenus, just a heads up
This is a good call and thanks for the list. My mate lives in Brooklyn and has taken me to a few good spots including Torst. I had one of those moments that live long in the memory there - trying my first alchemist heady topper well and truly buzzed whilst listening to Marty Robbins sing big Iron. He has mentioned Blind Tiger too. Interestingly our best beers of the day were in Torst and were from Fox Farm - they were standouts.
 
I took my first crack at brewing the recipe in the first post and I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed. I'm getting virtually no hop flavor or aroma at all, like almost nothing, also very little bitterness, I'm kinda stumped. I kegged it on the 14th, so maybe more time will help?
  • Used the water profile provided in the recipe
  • Yeast starter with US-05, used yeast nutrients, aerated wort with pure o2, fermented at 68, let rise to 70 for the last 2 days or so
  • Dry hopped at ~1.015 to help it creep down, final gravity was 1.009
  • Kettle ph of 5.2, post WP ph adjusted down to 5.0
I have a conical fermenter, so I sampled the beer after about 36 hours of dry hopping and was getting no hop flavor or aroma, so I dumped the yeast and existing hops, and added another 2oz of citra lupomax and 1.5oz of simcoe (7 gallon batch), I even roused the hops with co2. I let that sit for another 24 hours, cold crashed and packaged.

I brew mostly NEIPAs so maybe I've carried over some habit that doesn't work with this style? Thoughts or suggestions?
 
I took my first crack at brewing the recipe in the first post and I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed. I'm getting virtually no hop flavor or aroma at all, like almost nothing, also very little bitterness, I'm kinda stumped. I kegged it on the 14th, so maybe more time will help?
  • Used the water profile provided in the recipe
  • Yeast starter with US-05, used yeast nutrients, aerated wort with pure o2, fermented at 68, let rise to 70 for the last 2 days or so
  • Dry hopped at ~1.015 to help it creep down, final gravity was 1.009
  • Kettle ph of 5.2, post WP ph adjusted down to 5.0
I have a conical fermenter, so I sampled the beer after about 36 hours of dry hopping and was getting no hop flavor or aroma, so I dumped the yeast and existing hops, and added another 2oz of citra lupomax and 1.5oz of simcoe (7 gallon batch), I even roused the hops with co2. I let that sit for another 24 hours, cold crashed and packaged.

I brew mostly NEIPAs so maybe I've carried over some habit that doesn't work with this style? Thoughts or suggestions?
If you have a conical you should be dry hopping post ferm after you dump the yeast. I’ve found I’ve gotten much brighter hop character with dry hopping off of the yeast vs dry hopping at the tail end of fermentation
 
If you have a conical you should be dry hopping post ferm after you dump the yeast. I’ve found I’ve gotten much brighter hop character with dry hopping off of the yeast vs dry hopping at the tail end of fermentation
I agree with that, but I was trying to use the hop creep to drive down the FG. That's also why I did a secondary dry hop post fermentation, albeit with smaller amounts of hops just to see if I could get something.
 
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I took my first crack at brewing the recipe in the first post and I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed. I'm getting virtually no hop flavor or aroma at all, like almost nothing, also very little bitterness, I'm kinda stumped. I kegged it on the 14th, so maybe more time will help?
  • Used the water profile provided in the recipe
  • Yeast starter with US-05, used yeast nutrients, aerated wort with pure o2, fermented at 68, let rise to 70 for the last 2 days or so
  • Dry hopped at ~1.015 to help it creep down, final gravity was 1.009
  • Kettle ph of 5.2, post WP ph adjusted down to 5.0
I have a conical fermenter, so I sampled the beer after about 36 hours of dry hopping and was getting no hop flavor or aroma, so I dumped the yeast and existing hops, and added another 2oz of citra lupomax and 1.5oz of simcoe (7 gallon batch), I even roused the hops with co2. I let that sit for another 24 hours, cold crashed and packaged.

I brew mostly NEIPAs so maybe I've carried over some habit that doesn't work with this style? Thoughts or suggestions?

Dang that sounds totally dissapointing! Your details and process sounds pretty solid to me its hard to know exactly what led to the crappy result. But really appreciate you bringing it up for discussion, that's really the point of a thread like this. Its hard to imagine a beer with the amount of hops you are using (around 5 oz hot side and 12oz cold side and 50+ ibus) having no hop flavor and aroma without some big flaw in process (oxidation is an obvious suspect but doesn't sound like it) or terrible quality hops. I think the total amount of DH you used is actually a good place to start for these. if you have 7 gal in the conical you really need a 14oz DH to get to 4lb/bbl. And you likely had 8 gallons or more in the boil so your hop rates probably need to be adjusted.

I've found pretty often that my very cold, recently packaged hoppy beers have little hop aroma. Something about giving it a week helps it "find itself". Definately try serving warmer (like 45F) that often get aroma to pop.

Could your fining process be an issue?

In terms of DH process - yeah I'm certainly not going to bat for the warm and long DH method that I suggest in this thread. But I have talked to a couple of excellent brewers who use this approach for WCIPA where as they use the cold and short (and higher rates) for hazies. My anecdote is I generally get better hop aroma from cold and short with lots of agitation, so maybe worth sticking to your usual process.

Some other thoughts: I've drifted from the original recipe over time as I think others have too. I think I prefer a bigger DH (12-15oz) and more ibus (60+ calculated). I see the place for a little character malt like vienna. But those are preferences and I definately still see the BEST breweries out here making these beers with 100% pils and low IBUs and the final product is SO light and quaffable, lager-like in drinkability.
 
Dang that sounds totally dissapointing! Your details and process sounds pretty solid to me its hard to know exactly what led to the crappy result. But really appreciate you bringing it up for discussion, that's really the point of a thread like this. Its hard to imagine a beer with the amount of hops you are using (around 5 oz hot side and 12oz cold side and 50+ ibus) having no hop flavor and aroma without some big flaw in process (oxidation is an obvious suspect but doesn't sound like it) or terrible quality hops. I think the total amount of DH you used is actually a good place to start for these. if you have 7 gal in the conical you really need a 14oz DH to get to 4lb/bbl. And you likely had 8 gallons or more in the boil so your hop rates probably need to be adjusted.

I've found pretty often that my very cold, recently packaged hoppy beers have little hop aroma. Something about giving it a week helps it "find itself". Definately try serving warmer (like 45F) that often get aroma to pop.

Could your fining process be an issue?

In terms of DH process - yeah I'm certainly not going to bat for the warm and long DH method that I suggest in this thread. But I have talked to a couple of excellent brewers who use this approach for WCIPA where as they use the cold and short (and higher rates) for hazies. My anecdote is I generally get better hop aroma from cold and short with lots of agitation, so maybe worth sticking to your usual process.

Some other thoughts: I've drifted from the original recipe over time as I think others have too. I think I prefer a bigger DH (12-15oz) and more ibus (60+ calculated). I see the place for a little character malt like vienna. But those are preferences and I definately still see the BEST breweries out here making these beers with 100% pils and low IBUs and the final product is SO light and quaffable, lager-like in drinkability.
Appreciate the follow up!

I'm going to rule out oxidation, because I believe I've done everything I can (within reason) to mitigate it (sanitizer purged kegs, purged lines, no oxygen in the conical, purged hops, 3g AA in mash, .5 packaging). My recent NEIPA's have also been really great as well.

Like you mentioned, I'm hoping some time will help it mature a bit. I haven't done any fining, and it hasn't dropped bright yet (kegged on the 14th). I did scale your brewfather recipe to my system, so that should have helped somewhat. I'd be interested to try upping the hop quantities and bitterness like you mentioned.

Perhaps it's my own taste that's changed somewhat. For reference, I kinda went a bit overboard with my last NEIPA, for a 7 gallon batch, my WP hops were 2.5oz citra, 2.5oz citra lupomax, 5oz galaxy, DH was 9oz citra lupomax, and 4.5oz galaxy. I think I got 4.75 gallons after all the losses lol. It was the best post fermentation/pre-dry hop beer I've ever tasted, and the worst beer I've ever made after that dry hop. After waiting about a month, it's calmed down and become one of my favorite beers I've brewed.

Definitely going to try your recipe again with more hops/IBUs... that's kinda my addiction with homebrewing, always chasing how I can make it better!
 
also very little bitterness,
That's an obvious place to start - quality of hops? Did the bittering hops have the 13% alpha that the recipe expects? Measurement of weights and times?

Also you might want to change to another member of the Chico family, I know some people aren't big fans of the Cellar Science.
 
That's an obvious place to start - quality of hops? Did the bittering hops have the 13% alpha that the recipe expects? Measurement of weights and times?

Also you might want to change to another member of the Chico family, I know some people aren't big fans of the Cellar Science.
My Simcoe was only 11.9% AA, but I also adjusted everything in Brewfather to account for this. All my hops are kept frozen in their original bags, never had any issues with them. Weights and times are all consistent.

I don't have access to Cellar Science, so I used Fermentis US-05. I will say this is the first time I get a slighty peachy taste. I've never experienced this before from US-05, but I don't mind it.

I honestly think I just need to add in more hops for my own taste. Here's what I'm thinking https://share.brewfather.app/8Oabe90pd08UNk
 
So I just got gold in 21A at the NHC Tampa regional for a malt extract WC IPA fermented with Lutra lmao. Recipe below

For 4 gallons.
OG 1.061 FG 1.010 78.1 calculated IBUs. Water treated to 300 SO4:50Cl.

Basically the play here is to add roughly half of your malt extract at 60 mins with your dextrose and then add the other half at 15 mins. This kind of ended up being a last minute freezer cleaning IPA thus the random hop combo and amounts

2lbs Pils DME, 1lb dextrose at 60 mins
2.5 lbs Pils DME at 15 mins

~50 IBUs CTZ at 60
~6ibus Amarillo at 10 mins (.5 oz)
~9ibus Amarillo LUPOMAX at 10 mins (.5oz)

1.5 oz Amarillo (3.5 ibu), 1.5 oz Amarillo Lupomax (5.4 ibu), 1oz chinook (3.3 ibu) .2oz CTZ (1 ibu) WP 30 mins at 160. Dropped to 5.0 pH at knockout with 10% phosphoric acid

DH: 5oz Mosaic, 3oz Chinook, 2oz Pacific Sunrise CGX, 1oz Nelson CGX for 24 hours at ~50ish degrees. Added biofine at dry hop

Fermented with 1 pack of Omega Lutra in my Florida garage at around 90F for 3 days.

Next time I’d change the hop combo up a bit and lower the dextrose amount but other than that super happy with it
 

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So I just got gold in 21A at the NHC Tampa regional for a malt extract NEIPA fermented with Lutra lmao. Recipe below

For 4 gallons.
OG 1.061 FG 1.010 78.1 calculated IBUs. Water treated to 300 SO4:50Cl.

Basically the play here is to add roughly half of your malt extract at 60 mins with your dextrose and then add the other half at 15 mins. This kind of ended up being a last minute freezer cleaning IPA thus the random hop combo and amounts

2lbs Pils DME, 1lb dextrose at 60 mins
2.5 lbs Pils DME at 15 mins

~50 IBUs CTZ at 60
~6ibus Amarillo at 10 mins (.5 oz)
~9ibus Amarillo LUPOMAX at 10 mins (.5oz)

1.5 oz Amarillo (3.5 ibu), 1.5 oz Amarillo Lupomax (5.4 ibu), 1oz chinook (3.3 ibu) .2oz CTZ (1 ibu) WP 30 mins at 160. Dropped to 5.0 pH at knockout with 10% phosphoric acid

DH: 5oz Mosaic, 3oz Chinook, 2oz Pacific Sunrise CGX, 1oz Nelson CGX for 24 hours at ~50ish degrees. Added biofine at dry hop

Fermented with 1 pack of Omega Lutra in my Florida garage at around 90F for 3 days.

Next time I’d change the hop combo up a bit and lower the dextrose amount but other than that super happy with it
Also in my experience judges kind of don’t know what to do with “new school”/non traditional hops in west coast IPA for stylistic scoring but in miniBOS they don’t care as much
 
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