The Hop Rod Garage - PLC (Wago) based herms build

[HopRodGarage]

Last summer I built my first setup based on the electric brewery and Sestos PIDs. The kettles was made out of old water heaters (3 x 150 liters)

Then the winter came and had to move the brewery into the basement since I didn't have time to insulate the garage. I then scaled down to 3 x 75 liters and converted the control panel to a dual system including Sestos PIDs and CraftBeerPi.

Now I've just started building my 3. control panel to fulfill my dream of a fully automated brewery controlled by a PLC. The PLC is a Wago PFC200.

I've made some videos of my current setup and also the beginning of the PLC build. So if you're interested in following my project just head over to my YouTube channel

I will also post pictures and info in this thread during the build. Feel free to ask questions and comment - both here and on YouTube. I'm also posting pictures and videos on Instagram

First video:


Second video:


Cheers!

 

[HopRodGarage]

Got the new control panel up on the wall today. A little bit easier to do the wiring while its hanging.

Also slaughtered the eBay patch panels and installed them in the bottom of the cabinet. Going to use these for all valves and sensors.

 

[BrunDog]

I love automated breweries! Keep the updates rolling!

 

[HopRodGarage]

As mentioned in one of the videos I'm going to use load cells for measuring the volume in the HLT and BLK.

I want the brew table to look good so I decided to design a top which will integrate the load cells.
So after watching a couple of Sketchup tutorials I fired up the app and started drawing. First time ever using this incredible app and got hang of it after awhile

Made a short video where I explain/showing the design

 

[BrunDog]

If you were starting fresh, I would suggest hyrdrostatic pressure sensors instead of load cells, but since you have the design worked out, give it a try and let us know how it is working.

 

[HopRodGarage]

If you were starting fresh, I would suggest hyrdrostatic pressure sensors instead of load cells, but since you have the design worked out, give it a try and let us know how it is working.

Ahh! Never seen those. Found some versions with 24V power and 4-20mA output. Hmmm.. maybe I should look into that instead.

Any suggestions for sensors that will work in HLT and BLK ? Both temperature and sticky wort

 

[BrunDog]

Look on my build thread for the configuration I used. It requires an additional discreet hole in your vessel however. The straw/bubbler method avoids that but has its shortcomings of additional hardware.

I used 5V, 0.5 - 4.5V output sensors. These are air pressure sensors and are inexpensive. If you want direct connection sensors, the only one I found which will work is from C3 and is about $140USD.

 

[HopRodGarage]

Started the wiring this week. The Wago PLC is now up running. Got the last modules for it as well.

I also picked up the top panel that I designed and got printed on aluminium.
Turned out pretty good I think It kinda look like an old arcade machine

 

[BrunDog]

Professional!

 

[HopRodGarage]

This weekend I noticed that I haven't updated this thread for a long long time!

So much has happened since my last post. So let's do a recap

This spring I finished up my new brewhouse in the garage.
Finally the Hop Rod Garage is... in the garage. I know got a insulated room that is dedicated to my brewery.

I also finished the Wago PLC control panel and I have been doing 5-6 batches on it recently. These batches has been semi-auto and I'm now working on the Codesys program to fully automating it.

The load cells worked but I wasn't satisfied with how they performed after some hours of weight. So I ordered some custom made pressure transmitters from Alibaba which turned out to work extremely well Happy camper with that upgrade! I got one transmitter in the HLT and one in the BK.

Took me some hours to figure out the code and calculation but now it is working as it should.

This summer I also upgraded the Wago software to their latest software -
e!Cockpit. This was an awesome upgrade which gave med HTML5 for the GUI/Interface creation. As you can see on some of the pictures the GUI turned out pretty nice. Darkened the look some weeks ago. Suited the touchscreen and the red panel pretty good.

As you can see the kettles are also upgraded.

- HLT - Ss brewtech 30 gallon kettle
- MLT - Ss brewtech 20 gallon mash tun
- BK - Ss brewtech 30 gallon kettle

- HLT - 2 x 3500W elements
- BK - 1 x 5500W element
- All mounted with Brewhardware's hotpods

- 15m stainless herms coil in the HLT

- 3 x Chugger SS pumps are doing the job with the transfer and resirc

- 14 electric valves are controlled by the Wago PLC

I have completely rebuilt the pump and valve rack. It is shortened 60cm since my initial rebuild after moving everything out in the brewhouse.

I'll promise to keep this thread more updated! If you got any questions feel free to ask

I'm very active in Instagram and YouTube so please follow me and subscribe to the channel for Live brewdays etc.

Instagram:
http://instagram.hoprodgarage.com

YouTube:
http://youtube.hoprodgarage.com

Facebook:
http://facebook.hoprodgarage.com

So... some pictures of the upgrade!

 

[HopRodGarage]

If you were starting fresh, I would suggest hyrdrostatic pressure sensors instead of load cells, but since you have the design worked out, give it a try and let us know how it is working.

As you can see I dropped the load cells after a couple of batches
Using pressure transmitters now

 

[kladue]

Are you monitoring temperature and calculating the density to correct pressure transmitter reading. An additional tweak is to estimate SG and apply that correction factor for level calculation also.

 

[BrunDog]

As you can see I dropped the load cells after a couple of batches

Using pressure transmitters now

I know you said custom, but do you have a link to these sensors? I use inexpensive pressure transducers but the are not direct contact.

 

[HopRodGarage]

Are you monitoring temperature and calculating the density to correct pressure transmitter reading. An additional tweak is to estimate SG and apply that correction factor for level calculation also.

The temperature in the BK is monitored but I haven't done any tweaks regarding the correction factor or the density.

That would be an awesome addition to the BK setup.
You got some additional info to point me in that direction?

I have been testing the volume control for the HLT and it works like a charm.
So strike and sparge water is under control.

 

[HopRodGarage]

I know you said custom, but do you have a link to these sensors? I use inexpensive pressure transducers but the are not direct contact.

I registered a QUOTE on alibaba.com and got in touch with a manufacture there. If you want... I can send you a PM with the contact info

They made the sensors and the cooler ribs (to be able to handle boiling fluid) on my specs.

 

[BrunDog]

Please do!

 

[BrunDog]

The standard is 4% volume expansion from room temperature to boiling. Here's the thing - you are measuring liquid pressure. Since the density changes with temp increase, the volume increases, but it's net mass doesn't. Since you are measuring with the pressure sensor, it won't change. So no need to apply corrections.

I would be more concerned about the long tubes. If the are canted down, the will fill with liquid which doesn't drain or can't be easily cleaned. If the are canted up, they will be filled with air which will change the level of liquid inside with temperature changes.

 

[shoo]

Have you considered optical sensors instead of pressure? Seems like those would eliminate a lot of the variables involved with calculating volume based on pressure.

 

[BrunDog]

What type of optical sensors are you thinking? Most of these are binary, and proportional ones are difficult to mount above a kettle.

I would also say the calculations are quite easy. The vessel has a diameter, and volume of a cylinder is pi*R^2*H where H is the height of the liquid. I have a calculator on the BruControl.com site.

 

[HopRodGarage]

The standard is 4% volume expansion from room temperature to boiling. Here's the thing - you are measuring liquid pressure. Since the density changes with temp increase, the volume increases, but it's net mass doesn't. Since you are measuring with the pressure sensor, it won't change. So no need to apply corrections.

I would be more concerned about the long tubes. If the are canted down, the will fill with liquid which doesn't drain or can't be easily cleaned. If the are canted up, they will be filled with air which will change the level of liquid inside with temperature changes.

Ahh. Thanks for that clarification

The sensors are not tilting down but are in level. I'm also gonna install them with quick disconnects. They just haven't arrived in the mail yet.

 

[HopRodGarage]

I would also say the calculations are quite easy. The vessel has a diameter, and volume of a cylinder is pi*R^2*H where H is the height of the liquid. I have a calculator on the BruControl.com site.

I used some hours before everything was calculated correctly.

First I had to calculate millibar to wc (water column) after running the RAW signal through a LIN TRAFO.

Then I had to include the deadspace because the sensor isn't mounted at 0cm in the kettle.

This is the Codesys CFC part for the volume measurement in the Ss 30 gallon kettle (HLT).

 

[crane]

I registered a QUOTE on alibaba.com and got in touch with a manufacture there. If you want... I can send you a PM with the contact info

They made the sensors and the cooler ribs (to be able to handle boiling fluid) on my specs.

I would be interested in this info as well.

 

[kladue]

FWIW:
Here are the lines of C# code I use for the level correction in the MashTun in the automated system.
Reset factor calc:
double mtIn = DataObject.mashTemp;
double mTReset = 1000 / (1000.1325 * (1 - (mtIn + 288.9414) / (508929.2 * (mtIn + 68.12963)) * System.Math.Pow((mtIn - 3.9863), 2)));

Sensor correction calc:
DataObject.mashTunLevel = (Math.Round(((analogData[1, 2] * (scaleData[1, 2]) + zeroData[1, 2]) * mTReset), 2, MidpointRounding.ToEven));

This is probably usless to most folks, but was derived from engineering liquid density calculations.
All the sensors have scale and zero values stored for calibration purposes so each can be zero'd. Levels are measured with remote pressure transmitters, and mash pressure drop is by differential pressure transmitter. Both boil and MashTun have PT100 sensors for temperature measurement, and level correction.

 

[swimIan]

As you can see I dropped the load cells after a couple of batches
Using pressure transmitters now

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Sorry. I know old thread. I recently acquired a pressure sensor very similiar to yours. I was wondering how you keep the insides clean? Are both your sensors permanently mounted or can one/both be removed?

 

[HopRodGarage]

Sorry. I know old thread. I recently acquired a pressure sensor very similiar to yours. I was wondering how you keep the insides clean? Are both your sensors permanently mounted or can one/both be removed?

You reminded me of that I should update this thread - a LOT has happened since the last update!

Both sensors can be removed. I haven't had any problems with "things" getting stuck in the sensors.
I clean the system with PBW after a brewday and just flush it with clean water. I detach the sensors now and then just to check them - they are installed with tri clamps now.

 

[BrunDog]

If you turn them up you will create an air gap which would prevent gunk from getting into the sensor. The air inside will cause some inaccuracy as the volume cools, which only practically happens in the BK if you chill into the BK via immersion chiller or HEX while recirculating.

 

[swimIan]

So what I hear you saying @BrunDog, is that chilling with an immersion chiller in the Bk with the sensor pointed up a bit will cause an air bubble and inaccurate volume readings. What do you mean by recirculating with a HEX? Are you referring to recirculating back to the BK while chilling with a different type of chiller or recirculating during mashing?

Shouldn’t the sensor be leveled as best as possible anyways?

 

[swimIan]

You reminded me of that I should update this thread - a LOT has happened since the last update!

Both sensors can be removed. I haven't had any problems with "things" getting stuck in the sensors.
I clean the system with PBW after a brewday and just flush it with clean water. I detach the sensors now and then just to check them - they are installed with tri clamps now.

More pics please!

 

[BrunDog]

So what I hear you saying @BrunDog, is that chilling with an immersion chiller in the Bk with the sensor pointed up a bit will cause an air bubble and inaccurate volume readings. What do you mean by recirculating with a HEX? Are you referring to recirculating back to the BK while chilling with a different type of chiller or recirculating during mashing?

Shouldn’t the sensor be leveled as best as possible anyways?

The sensor, when turned vertical will allow an air pocket to form as the elbow fills with liquid. As the liquid rises, it will compress the air slightly and the pressure sensor will read the pressure correctly without “getting wet”. Air has no density (relative to the liquid) so it’s column height really doesn’t matter. But it is compressible so temp changes will affect its volume. When the air pocket warms, any expanding air may push out below the level of the pocket - so this will maintain the reading level. However when the kettle, hence the air pocket cools, it will allow the liquid to climb up into the column occupied by the air pocket, slightly changing the fluid level being read. The best fitting assembly minimizes the volume of the air pocket, minimizing this affect, but nonetheless this would probably only amount a quart or two, which shouldn’t matter, much. Again this would only be an issue during cooling.

Yes, I meant recirculating back to the BK through a chiller, effectively dropping the temp of the liquid in that kettle.

 

[swimIan]

The sensor, when turned vertical will allow an air pocket to form as the elbow fills with liquid. As the liquid rises, it will compress the air slightly and the pressure sensor will read the pressure correctly without “getting wet”. Air has no density (relative to the liquid) so it’s column height really doesn’t matter. But it is compressible so temp changes will affect its volume. When the air pocket warms, any expanding air may push out below the level of the pocket - so this will maintain the reading level. However when the kettle, hence the air pocket cools, it will allow the liquid to climb up into the column occupied by the air pocket, slightly changing the fluid level being read. The best fitting assembly minimizes the volume of the air pocket, minimizing this affect, but nonetheless this would probably only amount a quart or two, which shouldn’t matter, much. Again this would only be an issue during cooling.

Yes, I meant recirculating back to the BK through a chiller, effectively dropping the temp of the liquid in that kettle.

Thx