Temps got too low I think. Dump it?

[bobeer]

From what I can gather I fermented wlp001 a little on the cold side, 61-62 degrees F, and it has caused an off flavor even I can't manage to choke down. I think I might have under pitched too but I'm not 100% sure. Either way I've tried to wait it out a couple of weeks in the keg and I think it's just getting worse. I'm bummed because my other beers wont be ready for another couple of weeks. I could dry hop it more but I'm half tempted to not waste anymore hops on it, or c02 for that matter, and just dump it.

The temps were unusually cold a while back so my fermentation didn't really get going for about 2 weeks. I'm so used to my process I just pitched the yeast and sat it in the basement for 2 weeks per usual. After 2 weeks I decided to take a SG and it only went down 20 points so I put it atop of the basement steps for another week; 64-66 degrees F. It started to bubble again, pretty vigorously, so I took another SG after the week and it was 1.020; still not at terminal gravity. So I left it on my kitchen counter for another week at 70 degrees F to help clean things up. After that week it was at 1.016 which was good enough for me. I cold crashed it for a few days then kegged it with an ounce of cascade and simcoe in the keg. Looking back maybe I should have let it clean up longer.

The dry hops lasted maybe a couple of days, and, while the beer was a cloudy mess, it was drinkable. Once the dry hops wore off and the beer cleared a bit the off flavor has gotten worse. I have done a ton of research and have decided it's probably acetaldehyde from not pitching enough yeast/not fermenting at proper temps but I'm not really sure. None of the other common off flavors I've read about seem like what's going on with my beer. The latex paint smell might be the closest one. It just smells and tastes like bad yeast to me.

I usually use sa05 and have never had any issues. I made a starter for the wlp001 but didn't record what size. I had 150 million cells I made the starter from and my OG was 1.056 I believe. Grist was just 2 row and a splash of honey malt. 50 IBUs of centennial @ FWH then some in the WP. It was a pretty straight forward beer/brew day done the same way I brew all my beer.
Anyway, you all think I should dump it or should I keep waiting it out?

 

[bu_gee]

Have you heard of Krausening?

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/exploring-the-german-technique-of-krausening/

It might be worth a try especially if you're planning another brew soon. I also wonder if you brought a small starter to high krausen and pitched it, it would help.

 

[bobeer]

Have you heard of Krausening?

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/exploring-the-german-technique-of-krausening/

It might be worth a try especially if you're planning another brew soon. I also wonder if you brought a small starter to high krausen and pitched it, it would help.

I actually have! Would have never of thought of it though for this so thanks for the idea. I remember reading about it in Zymurgy a few issues back.
I like the idea of adding a small starter. Hopefully this will never happen again but if it does I'll keep it in mind.

Right now I'm wondering what to do with the finished product I have on tap. I hate giving up on on a beer but I don't see how this could get any better with age.

 

[Beernik]

Acetaldehyde usually expresses itself as green apples. Leaving it on the yeast might have helped some but if it’s as bad as you say, it may not have completely gotten rid of it.

The good news is your temps shouldn’t be to blame. Acetaldehyde caused by ferm temps normally happens when it get in the +78F range in the early stage of fermentation. The bad news is it was probably from under-pitch or less likely an infection.

 

[Vale71]

Acetaldehyde usually expresses itself as green apples. Leaving it on the yeast might have helped some but if it’s as bad as you say, it may not have completely gotten rid of it.

I don't see where he mentioned filtration so his beer is still on the yeast, only the yeast has been so mistreated that it can no longer perform its post-fermentation function of cleaning up by-products. "Cold crashing" the beer obviously gave the yest the coup-de-grace and only made it worse.

 

[madscientist451]

Take your lumps and dump it now. If you can't "choke it down" its not going to improve. Live and learn, taking care of the fermentation is equally or even more important than the actual brewing of the wort.

 

[Dland]

Don't know how much beer we are talking about, but before I dumped it I'd bring it back to room temp and sprinkle in some more S-05 , seal it up, and hope it works out some more. Give it several days/a week.

If the keg(s) are mostly full, the yeast should use the O2 you let in, if not, do a couple co2 purges to limit oxidation. At the gravity you are at, you might even get some decent carbonation via spunding.

Nothing to loose but a pack of yeast. If it is 2 kegs, splitting a pack between them should be enough.

 

[Vale71]

This is finished beer we are talking about, any yeast you put in will have nothing to ferment and will just fall to the bottom. At worst, you'll just add autolysis to the off-flavor bouquet.

 

[IslandLizard]

The latex paint smell might be the closest one.

That likely points to an infection. If it took 2 weeks for your WLP001 to get a foothold something else in your beer got a head start.

Always make starters with liquid yeast to a) prove viability and b) ramp up cell count to a proper pitch rate. Aeration or oxygenation at pitching time is also important so the yeast can propagate well and fast to crowd out anything else. Temps that are too cold will retard or stall that process.

Not much you can do about it now, it's likely a dumper. Please treat your yeast and beer better next time.

 

[LostHopper]

Would low 60's with WLP 001 cause this problem? I thought that yeast was a little more "flexible" on temps.

I've used it at 64-65 and it fires up within 6-8 hours. I'm no expert but a 2 week delay on fermentation sounds like something else.

 

[Dland]

This is finished beer we are talking about, any yeast you put in will have nothing to ferment and will just fall to the bottom. At worst, you'll just add autolysis to the off-flavor bouquet.

I thought Op said gravity was 1.016. My SS-05 ales usually work down to 1.008 or so, worth trying if going to dump.

 

[kh54s10]

Would low 60's with WLP 001 cause this problem? I thought that yeast was a little more "flexible" on temps.

I've used it at 64-65 and it fires up within 6-8 hours. I'm no expert but a 2 week delay on fermentation sounds like something else.

Agreed, the temperatures stated would slow fermentation, but not by 2 weeks. I expect it was a combination of underpitch, cold temperatures that delayed the fermentation then allowed a contaminate to dominate. If it is getting worse that also leads me to an infection. I would not add anything else to it, but if the keg is not needed for another batch I might take it out for a place at room temperature for a couple weeks then give it another taste before dumping. But in saying that it is getting worse, I expect it is a goner.

 

[bobeer]

That likely points to an infection. If it took 2 weeks for your WLP001 to get a foothold something else in your beer got a head start.

Always make starters with liquid yeast to a) prove viability and b) ramp up cell count to a proper pitch rate. Aeration or oxygenation at pitching time is also important so the yeast can propagate well and fast to crowd out anything else. Temps that are too cold will retard or stall that process.

Not much you can do about it now, it's likely a dumper. Please treat your yeast and beer better next time.

Thanks for the input! I was thinking infection too at first but there was no signs of one besides the yeasty, sort of paint smelling off flavor; which is what led me to lots of research. I followed all my same processes for starters, sanitation, etc... which is why I'm at a loss with this one. The next 3 beers on deck all seem fine and one of them was with the same yeast as this one was. (as a test I took 2 gallons of a blonde ale and pitched with the same yeast) I just made sure to pitch more of it this time and watch the temps a lot closer.

 

[bobeer]

I don't see where he mentioned filtration so his beer is still on the yeast, only the yeast has been so mistreated that it can no longer perform its post-fermentation function of cleaning up by-products. "Cold crashing" the beer obviously gave the yest the coup-de-grace and only made it worse.

Yea, I don't filter my beer. Cold crashing and then leaving it on gas in the fridge usually clears them up pretty well. I do see your point, though. Thanks!

 

[bobeer]

Would low 60's with WLP 001 cause this problem? I thought that yeast was a little more "flexible" on temps.

I've used it at 64-65 and it fires up within 6-8 hours. I'm no expert but a 2 week delay on fermentation sounds like something else.

Sorry, I think I didn't mention my basement temp was 61-62 for the first 2 weeks. It's usually 64-66 down there but it was pretty cold at the time I pitched.

 

[bobeer]

Thanks all for the replies. Much appreciated!

 

[kevin58]

Do yourself a favor and invest in some simple temperature control tools. A fermwrap +inkbird temp controller and a thermowell bung are fairly inexpensive and will do wonders.

 

[bobeer]

Do yourself a favor and invest in some simple temperature control tools. A fermwrap +inkbird temp controller and a thermowell bung are fairly inexpensive and will do wonders.

Definitely at the top of my list! Even got the wife on board with this last one.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

A
The good news is your temps shouldn’t be to blame. Acetaldehyde caused by ferm temps normally happens when it get in the +78F range in the early stage of fermentation.

Do you have a reference for this? I'm not saying it's wrong, but I've only ever noticed acetaldehyde from low ferment temps (I get it with US05 at 61 or lower). I get hot alcohol and acetone from high temps, but have never noticed acetaldehyde.

 

[Beernik]

https://www.homebrewsupply.com/learn/yeast-temperature.html

About 1/2 way down it talks about comparing WPL001 fermented at 65F vs 75F. The higher temp produced about 10x more acetaldehyde in the finished beer.

My experience it’s the growth phase of fermentation that is most important for controlling it. If it’s too warm or underpitched, the yeast are stressed and tend to produce more off flavors whether they be acetaldehyde, esters, or fusels.

I rarely ever used dry yeast, so I have little experience with US05. But I’ve never gotten it from pitching a healthy starter on the cold end of a yeasts range and ramping up the fermentation temp to where I want it over a couple days.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

https://www.homebrewsupply.com/learn/yeast-temperature.html

About 1/2 way down it talks about comparing WPL001 fermented at 65F vs 75F. The higher temp produced about 10x more acetaldehyde in the finished beer.

My experience it’s the growth phase of fermentation that is most important for controlling it. If it’s too warm or underpitched, the yeast are stressed and tend to produce more off flavors whether they be acetaldehyde, esters, or fusels.

I rarely ever used dry yeast, so I have little experience with US05. But I’ve never gotten it from pitching a healthy starter on the cold end of a yeasts range and ramping up the fermentation temp to where I want it over a couple days.

Interesting. I'd like to see them compare it with a colder temp as well. Based on my experience I'd guess that fermenting at 55F would produce more than 75F. Their study only shows that a high temp is bad compared to an ideal temp - it doesn't help at all with colder than ideal temps.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I just read through the relevant chapter of the 'Yeast' book referred to in the article above. It's quite common sense - at higher temperatures, yeast produce more stuff (including acetaldehyde). If temperatures are too low, they won't clean up what they've made (paraphrasing, of course). So at 61 to 62F, the heat generated from fermentation would have kept the yeast active at a good temperature. As the ferment slowed, the beer would cool and stop the yeast from cleaning up. They (White and Zainasheff) suggest raising the temperature a few degrees with one third to one quarter of the ferment left to help clean up off flavours (which many of us brewers already do). Once the yeast are asleep, they're hard to wake up again. My suggestion is to warm it up to 70F+ and add 3 to 6 ounces of sugar or dextrose or Malt extract (dissolve it in boiling water). The extra sugar should help get the yeast working again. Leave it for a couple of weeks, then chill again and taste it.

 

[Gameface]

I have heard that wlp001 (same as US05, but not 100%) is weird in that it produces some peachy flavors when fermented cool. Most ale yeasts taste fantastic if fermented cool so long as you pitch enough healthy yeast, oxygenate well and don't have significant temp variation. WLP001 is sort of an outlier from what I've read, in that it really shines best when fermented in the mid 60s. 70s = too hot, low low 60s = too cold. Forget what the packaging says. Read up on that yeast on HBT. Yooper, in particular has talked about that yeast several times.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

I have heard that wlp001 (same as US05, but not 100%) is weird in that it produces some peachy flavors when fermented cool. Most ale yeasts taste fantastic if fermented cool so long as you pitch enough healthy yeast, oxygenate well and don't have significant temp variation. WLP001 is sort of an outlier from what I've read, in that it really shines best when fermented in the mid 60s. 70s = too hot, low low 60s = too cold. Forget what the packaging says. Read up on that yeast on HBT. Yooper, in particular has talked about that yeast several times.

Indeed, when fermented too low most of the "chicos" don't taste that great. A friend of mine tried making a pseudo lager at 55F with Chico and it was NOT a good beer. No acetaldehyde, but more like a banana and rubbery character. I suppose latex paint would also be a little close.

 

[IslandLizard]

I made a starter for the wlp001 but didn't record what size. I had 150 million cells I made the starter from and my OG was 1.056 I believe.

How did you determine you had 150 million cells? Was that before the starter?