Temperature inquiry (lalvin D47)

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Lancelot3289

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This is my first batch of mead/melomel
I have two one gallon carboys going, recipes listed below.
I pitched my yeast 4 days ago and with all the attention i paid to sterilization, quantities of honey, fruit, aeration, etc. I just stumbled across the temp range of the lalvin D47 yeast that i pitched.
The ambient temp has been about 75° F. for the first 4 days of primary.
I have since seen that temps above 70°F can result in paint thinner like results with D47.
I have moved the carboys to a location that has a lower ambient temp. ( between 63 and 70° F.)
As i am greener than the 4 day mead and do not have a way to measure gravity yet i have no way of knowing where the sugar break is or how much fermentation has taken place.
I suppose my question is how important is it to keep D47 below 70°F?.
If kept at 75°F is there a high risk of drinking paint thinner?
Has anyone sucessfuly fermented d47 above 70° without adverse taste?

I live in the south and it is hotter than the devils undercarriage right now, running this a/c all day while I'm at work is a rich mans game.
Any input on my first foray is appreciated.


Recipes.

Blueberry melomel
3 1/4 lbs of honey harvested straight from my beehive.
1 1/2 pounds of fresh blueberries, frozen then pureed. (Planning to add more in secondary)
10 raisins
2.5 grams lalvin D47
Go ferm, dap, day 1. fermaid o day 4 (as directed on packaging)

Orange cinnamon
One large navel orange
25 raisins
One cinnamon stick
(Planning to add a small pinch of nutmeg)
3 1/4 pounds honey
Yeast/Nutrients same as above.
 

RPh_Guy

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Hey Lancelot, welcome to the forum!

Just wait and see. No point in worrying about it now!

Try to keep ambient under 65 if you can. Look into using a swamp cooler (pan, water, shirt, +/- fan), and probably a different yeast strain in the future.

Cheers
 

Maylar

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D47 gets a bad rap for creating fusels above 65°F. Never used it myself, so I can't confirm that. That being said, Groenfell Meadery uses it in their session meads at 1 packet per gallon and at about 80°F.
 

Shine0n

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To me it adds alot of fruity esters at elevated temps, not bad for my taste but someone with a more refined pallet may not care for it.
I've done switched to 71B for all my meads, it has a larger temp range and it works wonders with high OG and fruit.

You'll be fine
 
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Lancelot3289

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thank you all for the quick info.
I was born and raised in Louisiana and never heard of a swamp cooler lol ill try that.
I bought a bulk package of 10 packets of D47 because i read it was good for beginners and melomel.
Ill use it when fermenting some fall batches.
Recomendations for a good yeast to use with fruit during the summer months that can take from 70° to 80°?
 

Shine0n

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71B, does good with a high OG and really well with fruit.
 

RPh_Guy

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I don't know if it's the best, but Red Star Premier Cuvee is easy to handle and works fine up to 95°F supposedly. Neutral flavor.
 

TasunkaWitko

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Has anyone sucessfuly fermented d47 above 70° without adverse taste?
I have. The mead that was produced tasted great. It had a quality that I cannot put my finger on; it might have been the way that it is supposed to be, or it might have been as ShineOn says above...I do not know. But the results were very good, very drinkable, and quite popular with the folks I shared it with.
 
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Lancelot3289

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Awesome, thanks for the peace of mind and suggestions.
Separate question, how long before i rack off of these blueberries and oranges? in regard to them adding bitterness to the final product.
I have seen conflicting messages on this.
 
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Lancelot3289

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Also is there a way to tell ferment is done by looking at the sediment? I don't have a way to measure gravity yet
 

RPh_Guy

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in regard to them adding bitterness to the final product.
I have seen conflicting messages on this.
It's probably conflicting because of differences between the fruit people are using. Ripe fruit will give less bitterness.
I used fully ripe oranges in JAOM and have no perceptible bitterness.
Also is there a way to tell ferment is done by looking at the sediment? I don't have a way to measure gravity yet
Most people will tell you no, and they are correct. But honestly if you give it a couple months it will usually be done, and should be visibly clear.
It can be dangerous to bottle it if there is residual sugar (sweetness), so measuring gravity is considered a necessity.
 
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Lancelot3289

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Rph, when would you recommended rack off of the fruit into secondary? If i rack too soon will i lose fermentation? I was planning on adding more blueberries to the one for more fruit flavor in secondary. Then racking again when they were stripped of color.
I will be purchasing a hydrometer before my next batch
 
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RPh_Guy

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Rph, when would you recommended rack off of the fruit into secondary? If i rack too soon will i lose fermentation? I was planning on adding more blueberries to the one for more fruit flavor in secondary. Then racking again when they were stripped of color.
I will be purchasing a hydrometer before my next batch
Well, adding fruit in primary generally isn't advised. JAOM is sort of a novelty thing, so that's the one case where I've done it. It breaks all the rules.
I would just leave it in primary undisturbed until fermentation completes, per the usual JAOM process.

JAOM is not the normal way to make mead -- OK for beginners as an easy introduction but not for teaching best practices. Generally the best practice is staggered nutrient additions (SNA or TOSNA) with aeration, degassing, and gravity monitoring. If using whole fruit, that'd be done in secondary (more space/less lees, less concern for autolysis, less concern for contamination).

I love this quote:
JAOM counter-intuitively makes use of everything we know about mead making but does so in the same way an illusionist plays with a deck of cards.
Cheers
 

TasunkaWitko

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RPh said everything better than I could. :mug:

I'm pretty non-scientific about my methods; I give it a primary for a month or two, rack it to a secondary for a month or two, rack it once more for an extended period of time (usually until I remember that it has been sitting for an extended period of time), then "cold crash" and bottle. I have not had any troubles, and have had great results - but RPh's suggestions are much more correct, and probably a better way to do it.

As for JAOM, it breaks all the rules, but it works. The important thing is to do it pretty much exactly as described, because following the instructions compensates very well for the fact that it breaks all the rules. It is best to not try to improve it or mess with it. When I made it, I thought I would "improve" it and use the zest and fruit only, rather than the entire orange. I personally liked the results, but they were admittedly a little sweeter than intended by the original method. The pith of the orange peel would have balanced that out to something that is more "correct," if I would have followed the instructions.
 
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Lancelot3289

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Ok the orange i will leave alone even though im a little nervous because i didn't follow those joam instructions for it exactly. (No clove, D47 instead of fleishmans) the blueberry is the one i am questioning racking off of fruit. I'm thinking 3 weeks in primary then racking to secondary adding a little more whole fruit then racking again when color is stripped. Would you all recommend this?
 

Leon Nguyen

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Sorry for interrupt, i know this is not my thread, however, talking about temperature, may i ask something??
I know that the temperature does a critical role during fermentation. I read somewhere that the higher temperature (within the yeast can sustain) the fermentation will be faster, but it will cause the mead some problem such as off flavors or taste bad and hard to preservation. Is that correct? And i'd love to learn more about how temperature affect the fermentation further. Thanks for your time, looking forward to hear from all you.
 

James0816

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Orange cinnamon
One large navel orange
25 raisins
One cinnamon stick
(Planning to add a small pinch of nutmeg)
3 1/4 pounds honey
Yeast/Nutrients same as above.
Making my first two batches of mead as well.

I'm using this same recipe except...i forgot to add the raisins. DOH!. I hope that doesn't make too much of a difference.

My second is just straight mead.

Also using D47 and so far it has been doing great. I pitched above 70. I would guesstimate 73ish at that's what we keep the house set at. Almost two weeks in and both are bubbling at a rate of ~ 1 every 5 seconds. I keep my carboys in the basement. not sure what the temp is down there but nice and cool.
 

TasunkaWitko

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Sorry for interrupt, i know this is not my thread, however, talking about temperature, may i ask something??
I know that the temperature does a critical role during fermentation. I read somewhere that the higher temperature (within the yeast can sustain) the fermentation will be faster, but it will cause the mead some problem such as off flavors or taste bad and hard to preservation. Is that correct? And i'd love to learn more about how temperature affect the fermentation further. Thanks for your time, looking forward to hear from all you.
Hello, Leon -

Unfortunately, I do not have any specific, concrete answers for you, just anecdotes; however, I can say that temperature is indeed important during fermentation, because the wrong temperatures can produce off-flavours.

I am bringing this thread up to the top in case anyone else might be able to provide a good, useful answer.
 

TasunkaWitko

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Making my first two batches of mead as well.

I'm using this same recipe except...i forgot to add the raisins. DOH!. I hope that doesn't make too much of a difference.

My second is just straight mead.

Also using D47 and so far it has been doing great. I pitched above 70. I would guesstimate 73ish at that's what we keep the house set at. Almost two weeks in and both are bubbling at a rate of ~ 1 every 5 seconds. I keep my carboys in the basement. not sure what the temp is down there but nice and cool.
James - you probably want to get those raisins in there; as I recall, they act as nutrient or energizer for the yeast.
 

RPh_Guy

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And i'd love to learn more about how temperature affect the fermentation further.
Temperature affects the activity level of the yeast. Each commercial strain has a particular window in which it produces good flavor. If the temperature is too low, the yeast might go dormant or produce off-flavors. If the temperature is too high, off-flavors are common.
get those raisins in there; as I recall, they act as nutrient or energizer for the yeast.
Raisins are for tannins to provide more body/structure.
 
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Lancelot3289

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Should i add my nutmeg in primary or secondary? Any other suggestions on spices?
 

RPh_Guy

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If you're using ground nutmeg I don't think it'll matter.
 

Maylar

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I recommend whole spices rather than ground. Powder doesn't mix well and tends to just float on the surface. I use spices in primary and usually remove them after 3 weeks.
 

James0816

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James - you probably want to get those raisins in there; as I recall, they act as nutrient or energizer for the yeast.
Is it too late to add them now? I'm one week and two days into fermentation. Will it bother anything if I pull the lock off to add them?
 
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