Temp controller with induction cooktop?

[iwouldtapthat]

Hey there homebrewers!

I have some questions about induction brewing and temp control. I went from stovetop BIAB to stovetop recirculation mash with a false bottom kettle and kinda a batch sparge system. I am thinking of going to induction and using a 110v induction cooktop for mashing. Is there a way to use a temp contoller with an induction cooker? I could probably just find a good setting to hold my mash temps after I get to the required temperature, but I would like to automate it a bit more. Then for the boil I was thinking about using a 110v induction cooktop and adding a heat stick to get to a good boil. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Rob2010SS]

In the kettle you have, do you have a thermometer port?

I don't know how well it would work, but if you do have a thermometer port, you could plug your induction cooktop into something like an Inkbird temp controller. Then take the temp probe on the Inkbird and have that in your thermometer port on your kettle.

Again, not sure how well that would work. I'm not familiar at all with induction cookers. However, this is the same way a lot of people control fermentation temperatures so my initial thought was you could try this.

 

[iwouldtapthat]

Yeah I do have a thermometer port in my kettle. Thanks for the thought, I may look into this and see if that is a posibility.

 

[golfindia]

It also depends on how the induction burner on off switch works. A temp controller (pid) just turns the heater on and off. If the induction burner has some sort of intergrated circuit pushbutton on/off switch you may also have to hack some internal wiring to bypass it.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

In the kettle you have, do you have a thermometer port?

I don't know how well it would work, but if you do have a thermometer port, you could plug your induction cooktop into something like an Inkbird temp controller. Then take the temp probe on the Inkbird and have that in your thermometer port on your kettle.

Again, not sure how well that would work. I'm not familiar at all with induction cookers. However, this is the same way a lot of people control fermentation temperatures so my initial thought was you could try this.

From what I've read, most induction cooktops, when first turned on, are in the heat off position. Since an inkbird works by cycling power, the first time it cycles off, then back on, the induction unit will be powered up, but not heating. At least that's what I saw when looking into induction a year or so ago.

There was one unit that I read about that had a manual temp setting knob so that as soon as you cycled power on, it was heating. The issue with it was that it was a strange voltage...like 208V or something. Some people were using it at 220, but there were questions about whether that was safe and if it shortened the life of the unit.

I'm still surprised nobody has come up with a 220V induction rig that is designed for a feedback control. The whole single vessel eBrewing approach just begs for it. The internal heating unit in typical ebrewing forces a significant amount of dead space at and below the element that reduces the ability, for any given kettle, to brew small batches or really high gravity batches (think 25 lbs grain in a 5 gallon batch). Brew Boss, for example, can't cover the entire grain bed with a grain bill like that as too much of the wort is below the basket where the heating element is.

With induction, you have the entire kettle space. You can go false bottom, SS basket, whatever. Step mashing would, of course, be easy. Cleanup is easier too since you don't have that element in your boil kettle.

 

[golfindia]

There was another thread that said these models are real manual control:

https://www.admiralcraft.com/equipm...ers/induction-cooker-manual-control-120v.html

Edit, holy crap they are $250.....

 

[iwouldtapthat]

Wow, yeah I am hoping to not have to spend more than 100$ on the cooktop. Also, I said 110V in my post but I meant 120v.

 

[rudylyon57]

First of all-welcome to Homebrewtalk! I recall seeing someone hack an induction cooktop to access the temp sensor in an attempt to override the control. Seemed like it was mounted on the center of the coil. Not sure if it was on this site or elsewhere. It may be of help if you do some searching. Maybe another member will chime in.

 

[brewman !]

IMHO, 120 VAC Induction units are under powered to get 5+ gallons to a good rolling boil.

 

[iwouldtapthat]

I was just planning to use it for mashing and then add a heat stick to the boil kettle for the extra power to get a good boil.... In theory atleast lol.

 

[brewman !]

I think that is an excellent approach. You can use a 5,500 - 6,000 watt 240vac element, run it on 120vac (separate breaker !) and get 1375-1500 watts from it and ultra, ultra, ultra low watt density.

 

[vtipsy]

I looked pretty hard at this (for what that’s worth) and the Adcraft was only one I found. And even then I wonder how durable it would be flashing on and off so frequently.

Also, you don’t want to mess around trying to hack an induction cooker unless you know what you are doing. It’s dangerous.

 

[brewman !]

Also, you don’t want to mess around trying to hack an induction cooker unless you know what you are doing. It’s dangerous.

Lol

No worse than propane, really, if you know something about electricity. I wonder how many people built Brutus 10s and piped the propane through the frame and had pinholes in the welds such that they leaked propane?

Check out my custom 5 Kw induction all in one. I engineered and built the coil myself.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...5kw-induction-all-in-one.661665/#post-8503061

Fyi, almost all induction units operaoperate on an on/off duty cycle basis. Im guessing there are probably separate boards for the power and gui/control functions. There should be one wire that controls whether the power unit is on or off. If you could find that wire or trace it would be easy to control the unit externally.

 

[iwouldtapthat]

Man, I looked at your settup brewman... It looks awesome! I need to look into the craftbeerpi. I mostly want to just automate mashing. I wonder if I could just install a heating element under my false bottom and use a PID. Would there be a way use craftbeerpi in a setup like that? I know nothing about python or any programming language really btw.

 

[brewman !]

Man, I looked at your settup brewman... It looks awesome!

Thanks.

I need to look into the craftbeerpi. I mostly want to just automate mashing.

You are probably lying to yourself.

I wonder if I could just install a heating element under my false bottom and use a PID. Would there be a way use craftbeerpi in a setup like that?

Yes, that is super simple to set up.

1) Buy an RPi, install Raspian on an SD card, boot it, install CraftBeerPi3 from the install file.
2) Wire an SSR up to the RPi (2 wires + power wires)
3) Wire an 18DS20 temp sensor up to the RPi. (3 wires + 4.7K resistor across 2 of them)
4) Fire up the RPi, select your UI elements (temp sensor, heater and kettle) Set the pin numbers. Select a PID type.
Enjoy !

I know nothing about python or any programming language really btw.

No programming required unless you need something that CBPi doesn't provide. It is all plug and play except the bit of wiring. But you would have that with a stand alone PID anyway.

You'll probably want a case of some sort for the RPi. And it needs a power supply. You can power it via USB if the USB supply is 2.5A or more. (For the RPI3.)

I'll help you through every step if you need it.

PS: get a good quality SD card or the RPi will run slow. Beware of fake SD cards. I use 32MB Sandisk Extreme cards.

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

Most induction hot plates will not work without modifying the wiring, because if it goes off (from trying to control using a temperature probe) it will not remember your settings from before. The induction heater I use with my BCS-482 to regulate my mashtun & HLT works without modifying the wiring. I use the Adcraft 120V model but they also have a 208v model as well. They are built like a tank. I've been using it for over 3 years.

 

[brewman !]

I suspect that the induction power supply boards used in plates are similar to the board I used in Thing1. 240VAC is permanently connected to the board. To actually send power to the coil you have to connect 2 low voltage pins together from a control port. I do this with a relay. This causes the drive circuit to start up. Start up time is about 2 seconds.

There is no easy way to modulate power in a induction circuit. Generally the circuit is just turned on and off.

$1300 for the 120vac model ?

 

[vtipsy]

Lol

No worse than propane, really, if you know something about electricity. I wonder how many people built Brutus 10s and piped the propane through the frame and had pinholes in the welds such that they leaked propane?

Check out my custom 5 Kw induction all in one. I engineered and built the coil myself.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...5kw-induction-all-in-one.661665/#post-8503061

Fyi, almost all induction units operaoperate on an on/off duty cycle basis. Im guessing there are probably separate boards for the power and gui/control functions. There should be one wire that controls whether the power unit is on or off. If you could find that wire or trace it would be easy to control the unit externally.

Can't find my notes on this but I recall there being an issue with grounding. Sorry, that's not very helpful.

@Lmiller1708 ran into this over here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...induction-burner-hacked-by-an-arduino.643805/ .

 

[brewman !]

You need three things to get this board running under manual control.

To apply +5V to the “K” line in order to enable the device.
To apply an adjustable voltage (about 0-3V) to the PWM line to control the power output.
To strike the device into oscillation using the PAN line.

So let’s take a step back and show you this dangerous piece of pwnership from start to finish. All the control can be achieved through the ribbon cable – no splicing into the circuitry is needed! In our case, we just chopped the ribbon cable off at the controller board, and threw the controller board away.

Source: http://openschemes.com/2011/04/28/manual-control-of-the-1-8kw-induction-cooktop/

Just as I figured. The control board is totally separate from the power board.

Would take me less than day to write a driver for this in CBPi. The interface would be 3 wires, maybe relays depending on the voltages and the port characteristics.

 

[brewman !]

Apparently it has already been done. See this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/dual-induction-brutus-20.598424/

 

[iwouldtapthat]

That is an interesting setup. I am thinking I may have better luck using induction and also adding a heat stick. Has anyone cut a 1/2 hole in a kettle and added a heatstick before? And attached the heat stick to PID for temp control?