Taps in the freezer of fridge

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m1k3

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Hi All-

Quick backstory: Keezer died, got a free fridge but only cools to 47-52F... wife won't approve purchase of new fridge/freezer and don't want to deal with any more old appliances (for now)... So I'm going to repurpose the Frem Chamber Fridge as new kegerator! The crappy fridge will have to do as a ferm chamber for now (seems to get cold enough... but won't cold crash or lager as well).

What I want to do: It gets hot in my California garage in the summer and the hot faucets pour foam on the first beer served (not an issue with tap lines, balancing etc.) So, I want to mount the five perlick faucets in the freezer (no not in the door... inside!)

The fermentation chamber has the freezer section open to the fridge from a previous hack (see photos)... so, I am thinking it won't get too cold in the freezer. Also, I plan to build a box for the tap lines and shanks and stuff it with a bunch of polyfill (think subwoofer box - 3/4" MDF, stuffed with poly fill). That should be pretty well insulated. The box can sit on 2x4s on their sides so that should give good airflow into the fridge.

So, this seems pretty well planned out (to me). Just running it by you HBT folks because this is ether a genius solution to my problems or I might be a complete idiot.

With my measurements, I should be able to use a standard pint glass and my "normal" height tap handles... no huge glassware or crazy tap handles.

The fridge can be temp controlled with one of my Johnson A419s or will probably work with the standard internal thermostat (37F has been a good temp for me in the past).

Questions:
1) Should the box be as small as possible to allow for airflow? Or pretty large for better insulation?
2) I have a bunch of polyfill and 3/4" MDF from speaker projects... any reason to go buy proper insulation or more moisture resistant wood? (maybe paint the box?) I live in low humidity area.
3) Do you expect the tap lines and perlick faucets to work without freezing up?

Photos in next post.
 
Just checked and the beer just got down to 40F.... The freezer was 19F.

Insulating the shanks and lines in a box probably won't be effective at stopping freezing, right?

Maybe a fan to pull in air from below.... Or temp controlling the box with a bulb heater?

I see why nobody does this.
 
While cooling the kegs to 37F... I saw freezer air temps of 19F (which partially froze a small cup of water). Once the the kegs got to 37F, the freezer air temp went up to 35F (at least when I checked it again in the morning).

I might need to pull warmer air up to the tap box with a fan, or maybe heat the tap box in the freezer with a small bulb or brew belt. I have another Johnson A419 controller that I could use to temp control (heat) the tap lines... but that seems like overkill.

Any other ideas to keep tap lines from freezing? I'd like to have carbonated water on one tap which is going to freeze even faster than beer.
 
Well, shoot, that was a 1AM "Posting Under The Influence" fail right there.
I totally missed that the freezer compartment floor was already holed :smack:

I bet if you had a 120mm fan installed at one end of that hole it'd keep the entire cabinet at one temperature...

Cheers!
 
Time to go flowcontrol faucets and do like 2ft lines so it's nice and clean!


I just went from 3 to 5 taps so it will be a bit before I add #6.

This fridge seems huge compared to the old keezer it replaced.

(Just checked and water is still pouring on the taps.... No frozen lines yet.)
 
5:30am - The keg temp was 38F and the air temp in the freezer was 38F. Tried two taps with water on them and no freezing!!!

So far so good! Something I hadn't considered is that freezing will be more likely in Summer time when the fridge has to run more. I may not see any issues for months...

On think I did notice is that the miss not having the drip tray!
With my design the drip try didn't really work anymore. To make space for a drip tray I'd have to push the taps back further into the freezer.
 
5:30am - The keg temp was 38F and the air temp in the freezer was 38F. Tried two taps with water on them and no freezing!!!

So far so good! Something I hadn't considered is that freezing will be more likely in Summer time when the fridge has to run more. I may not see any issues for months...

On think I did notice is that the miss not having the drip tray!
With my design the drip try didn't really work anymore. To make space for a drip tray I'd have to push the taps back further into the freezer.

I'm curious if any of the top-freezer fridges have wiring, coolant lines, etc., in the freezer floor dividing it from the lower fridge. With the huge number of available similar units, I've considered picking one up with the goal of combining the freezer and fridge into a single open compartment, and running the taps thru the freezer door up top. Seems this would be a good way to keep all the lines routed cleanly and allow easy keg access without disturbing the tap assembly.
 
I can't speak for all fridges but generally there might be electrical lines between the freezer and fridge but there should not be cooling coils.... That's not how fridges work, the coils must be on an outside surface to move the heat to be outside.

By the way, I got home today and tried the water and had a beer... And no freezing!

Another plus o noticed is that the tap lines can be a little shorter or else the pressure has to be a little higher due to the elevated faucets. (I guess it's a subtle difference.)
 
From a mechanical insulator's point of view, I'd take the teddy bear guts out of your box and put them back in your daughters toy. :) They won't offer any insulation value and if anything prevents the warmer fridge air from circulating in the box. If you want to insulate the box from the cooler freezer air, you could glue closed cell elastomeric sheet foam (Armaflex) to either inside or outside of the box. This will offer a thermal barrier and theoretically if you have sufficient fridge air circulating in and out of your box should prevent the lines from freezing up. Failing the Armaflex, 1/2" styrofoam could also work. Actually as I'm writing this, why no construct your box out of styrofoam? You could have a fan blowing from the fridge in and a hole for return air going back into the fridge if not a fan blowing out.
Has anyone looked into the possibility of just turning the freezer all the way down and/or disconnecting it? I'm not a refrigeration guy but I wonder if a trip to your local repair guy would the simplest method be if he could just turn it off?
 
The freezer is where all of the cold is made, the food compartment gets its cold from the freezer.
And it'd be pointless to relocate the evaporator in a fridge/freezer unit.

I still think less insulation and more fan is the way to go here...

Cheers!
 
The freezer is where all of the cold is made, the food compartment gets its cold from the freezer.
And it'd be pointless to relocate the evaporator in a fridge/freezer unit.

I still think less insulation and more fan is the way to go here...

Cheers!

Ah, well there you go. I just figured it might run independently since they have 2 separate controls. I disagree about the styrofoam box not being needed but you may be right. Only one way to tell and thats to try it out. Seems like more of a hassle than its worth but hey........the holes are drilled ecerything's set so fire that b!tch up and let us know what happens!
 
Quick update: Several days have passed... no freezing. Thanks to everyone for your input (which I will implement if I run into freezing issues this summer when the fridge has to run more).

The beer I drank last night was 38F.... and I was quite happy with that temp.

At this point the lack of a drip tray is the only minor issue.

When I insulate my garage door hopefully I have a couple feet of that 1.5" styrofoam stuff that I can put on the back of the box (again not an issue at this point).

Well, to sum this project up... it's more work than a simple kegerator tap in the door build (but way less work than some of the elaborate keezers on HBT!). It makes maintenance way more difficult (changing lines, tightening a shank, adding another faucet).

I kinked on of the lines in the box (and of course did not test the taps before installing it in the fridge). Don't do that.
 
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