Tank depot Inductor tanks?

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ak47clown

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I happened to click on an add i saw for tank depot at the top of the page last night and took a look at the plastic conicals they are offering. You could get a 15 gallon tank for 57.99 (+5% off discount their hbt) (stand is another 65 but i'd probably build something). Seems like a pretty good deal but i haven't seen anyone else saying much about these-there's Norwesco and Ace tanks. Unfortunately, the site is extremely vague on what the difference is between them...
 

Nurmey

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The vendor is a member here so you can shoot him an email with your questions. I've looked at them a few times but I have a moratorium on beer spending until April 15th. :(
 

LooyvilleLarry

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Yeah, if they made a double walled conical (read jacketed) with some connections, there would be a massive rush ( call me first).
 
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ak47clown

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cool-i'll look into it. If i can figure out a practical way of regulating the temp then i'll probably go for it
 
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ak47clown

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I'm almost thinking that with not too much effort, you can take a "keg bucket" (one of those plastic buckets you fill with ice and put a keg in) and cut a hole in the bottom, put the end part of the conical through it and then seal it with silicone. Then fill the bucket with water and use an aquarium heater to regulate temp like i do with my 5 gallon presently. Obviously, you'd need a custom stand but i'm thinking nothing more than a work bench with a hole in it.
 

LooyvilleLarry

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Yeah, I'm thinking that someone with a factory that makes conical tanks could make an outer shell of the main tank a hella lot easier :)
 

TankDepot

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Good morning all,
"the site is extremely vague on what the difference is between them"
AK - There is virtually no difference between the Ace manufactured and Norwesco manufactured inductor tanks. The only significant differences are the shipping points, best to pick one closest. I've carried the Ace tanks for almost a decade with virtually no disappointing feedback. I had added the Norwesco models more recently after reading that a member here at HBT felt that their lids closed more securely.
Irr81765 - You are correct, some manufacturers do make plastic shell stands for cone bottom tanks, however anyone who does only molds 15 degree sloping tanks ( Polyethylene Cone Bottom Tank with Poly Stand (Chem-Tainer) ). While it should be relatively easy to make and run a mold for a 60 degree tank, I would anticipate that the extra height and plastic could kill the cost-effectiveness.

I've seen several good DIY solutions for inductor stands.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/inductor-tank-conical-build-106602/
 

LooyvilleLarry

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Any chance we might see a "sleeve" that could be optionally added to a 15g fermenter? Something that would allow a liquid to surround the main tank (not necessarily the cone). ?
 

Hokie

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Any chance we might see a "sleeve" that could be optionally added to a 15g fermenter? Something that would allow a liquid to surround the main tank (not necessarily the cone). ?
Can you not buy a larger tank to place the smaller one inside? I imagine it might take some creative construction to remain solid, but as long as the dimensions allowed, I'd think the tanks are cheap enough to experiment with.
 

Cpt_Kirks

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As to chilling, for something this big, a dedicated CL fridge may be called for. I have seen several pics of full size fridges with big conicals inside.

Though, those designs with the tank wrapped in copper tubing are pretty cool, too.

One of those tanks is on my list, but it will be a while before I get that far.
 

TankDepot

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The sleeve is an interesting concept. I would have to see one to see how it could be accomplished.
These inductor tanks have been around for a long while. Inductor tanks were originally intended/engineered for mixing chemicals when filling a larger tank. It's called an inductor tank, because it is meant to introduce chemicals into a larger system. It just so happens the the material used and the 60 degree cone is also ideal for making wine, beer, and biodiesel. In short, the production of wine/beer/bio were unintended applications for the tank. The manufacturers of these tanks serve the chemical containment industry. I believe that their response to "why don't you make a sleeve or double wall" would be "it serves too narrow of a market for us to invest in the engineering/molding". Ideally, this is where a third party would step in and fill the void.

A double-walled cone bottom tank would be a bitch and a half to mold. In short, you're looking at a two piece mold (an inner closed head tank and a larger outer open top tank) which will cost twice the price of a standard inductor tank AND with a longer lead time.
Theoretically, you could place an inductor tank placed into an open top cone bottom tank (similiar to the ones w/ the poly stands I linked to earlier). The only drawback is trying to install an outlet from the inner tank and through the outer tank. I'm not sure how you would be able to tighten the connections securely enough to pervent the liquid of one tank from entering another.

It was RockfordWhite that stated "I have said this before on pages, I would look for a Norwesco distributer near you and order a induction tank (conical) from them...their lids seal significantly better and I have heard better results from them..."
 

LooyvilleLarry

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So, I'll throw this out there. First, it may not have to be rigid. Some way of securing a bladder might work quite well.

Maybe I'll TOFTT and try and wrap PEX around one of these.
 
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ak47clown

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Thanks for the info, Tank. It wasn't meant as a criticism, only an observation. The other question(s) I had were:

-What's the difference between a side mount tank and a normal one?
-What's the difference between one listed as full drain and one that isn't? From the drawings, it looks like both of them have drains but one has a hose clamp along the base...

Thanks for your help
 

p4ck37p1mp

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I have two 35g Norwesco tanks, I can tell you the top lids do not seal very well. By no means are they air tight without some work. I'm going to make a gasket for mine to get them closer to air tight. It doesn't matter so much for clean fermentation, but I had a RIS make a mess as the krausen was let out the lid rather than through the blow off tube. Check pics below to see the tanks as well as the RIS blowoff. Overall I am happy with the Norwesco tanks, they're very solid and were easy to convert into fermenters, having said that the other makes are probably fine as well.

[Insert Name Here] Brew Club › Forums › General › Chit-Chat › Inductor Tank as Conical Build
 

TankDepot

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Mornin' AK
I hadn't taken your earlier question as a criticism and hope my response didn't come off as defensive. I had meant to give a simple "history" of the tank and why the manufacturers haven't done much to improve its functionality for brewing applications.

-What's the difference between a side mount tank and a normal one?
The side mount tanks have 2 vertical flat spots on opposite sides of the tank. This allows the tank to be mounted to a wall or piece of machinery. A normal inductor tank is completely round and requires some sort of frame to keep it upright.

-What's the difference between one listed as full drain and one that isn't? From the drawings, it looks like both of them have drains but one has a hose clamp along the base...
The inductor tanks not listed as "full drain" use a bulkhead fitting as an outlet. ( http://www.tank-depot.com/productimages/ace-fitting-180.jpg ) Liquids will get stuck between the outside of fitting and the remaining flat spot of the tank. I mean we're talking about 2 oz here, but it's important to note.
The "full drain" tanks have a molded in fitting or a half coupling welded to the bottom of the tank. The fitting is flush with the bottom of the tank (inside) and there is nothing to trap any liquid inside the tank.

I'm pretty sure neither the Ace or Norwesco brand tanks are completely air-tight...now, this is just an educated guess but; since the tanks were engineered to operate at atmospheric pressure, my assumption is that the lids are not "non-vented gasketed" to allow for the release of excess pressure. Thankfully, none of us are dealing with toxic fumes...

Good luck!
 

CollinsBrew

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I know this is an older thread but I just realized that there's a Tank Depot in Jacksonville. This just became much more affordable to me since I won't have to pay shipping. Hopefully, I'll be able to get over there during the week since they're aren't open at all on the weekends.
 

ubermick

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A word of warning to people looking to buy tanks from these guys - they are absolutely gouging you on shipping.

Ricand and myself were planning on ordering up two of the 15 gallon full drain conicals, and checked out Tank Depot. Tanks were $55.99 each, which was fair enough, but they wanted a RIDICULOUS $56.13 PER TANK to ship them to me in California.

Despite their claims of "Best Freight Rates Every Time", I thought this was outrageous - the tanks fit in a 2' cubed box, and weigh all of 15lbs, and I've taken boxes bigger than that down to UPS and shipped them for a hell of a lot less. So I shopped around. Found a company called SpraySmarter who carried Ace Tanks. Added two to my cart. Calculated shipping on two of them. $23.71 to ship BOTH tanks.

What?

Called spraysmarter.com to confirm. Surely there can't be THAT much of a difference, even though, like I said, I've shipped packages at the UPS store for a lot less than what tank-depot.com wanted. Spoke to an awesome guy, Landry, who confirmed, yes indeed, that was the shipping rate.

Unfortunately, this wasnt the full drain model, which wasn't on the Spray Smarter site. I did contact Landry and he was able to get the full drain tanks from Ace, and they will be adding to them to their site in the coming few days.

But I still wanted to contact tank-depot.com's customer service department and have a word about this "Best Freight Rates Everytime". The upshot of the week-long email exchange can be summed up like this:

me: How come shipping on these tanks is this high?
them: Because it is.
me: But another company is charging 75% less for shipping?
them: Really? Prove it.
me: Okay, here you go. (Forwarded email from competitor)
them: Fair enough, shipping for two of those exact tanks would be $25 instead of $104
me: What? Then why are you charging so much on the site?
them: That's what shipping costs.
me: Um, okay... how about shipping on the full drain model?
them: $55 each. Says it on the website.
me: WHAT? But they're more or less the same as the tanks you told me you could ship for a quarter of that!
them: Nope, it’s $110 for two
me: Okay, I just called your competitor, and they can get me the full drain version and ship me both of them for $36.43
them: No they can't.
me: But here’s proof! (forwarded email from competitor)
them: Oh. Okay, shipping would be $35.

To top it off, I got an email from them saying that:

It has come to our attention that our Customer Service email address contact list has been recently compromised.
Spammers have been sending emails that appear to be from us, but are not.

If you do receive one of these messages, Please do not click on any links. The email subject mentions a new Tank Depot Site or Project, and a website link that is not to our website.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.
So there you go. Unless you demand (and prove) that you can get a better price on shipping elsewhere, these guys are asses (at least the customer service person I dealt with was) and will cheerfully mark the shipping charges WAAAAY up.
 

Boy

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I just tried pricing one of the 15 gal from tank depot and came out with $20.22 shipping to Mt Hood oregon. Maybe over the last day they decided to fix the issue and quit missing out on business. Thanks for the spraymaster link.
 

BrewBeemer

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Stout Tanks wanted $130 shipping from Portland Oregon to the S.F. bay area for their 23 gallon fermenter. I had free shipping halfway across the country with a 22 gallon Brewhemoth fermenter that had UPS 44# shipping on it.
Go figure 5 month special order 70% cash down at $839 for the Stout Tanks unit or $459 with added custom options on a heavy with 14 gauge material Brewhemoth that can hold pressure. For $79 more I can own two Brewhemoth fermenters, that's my future plan.
 

ubermick

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I just tried pricing one of the 15 gal from tank depot and came out with $20.22 shipping to Mt Hood oregon. Maybe over the last day they decided to fix the issue and quit missing out on business. Thanks for the spraymaster link.
Really? I just tried it for the full drain version: http://www.tank-depot.com/productdetails.aspx?part=A-INFD15-19

And am still being charged with $56.13 to San Rafael, CA. And when I used Mt. Hood in there, it came out to $47.37?
 

JuanMoore

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The full drain only ship from Iowa, so shipping goes up the further you live from there. The standard drain tanks ship from several facilities all over the country, so shipping is usually cheaper. For the 15 gal tanks, shipping for me is $45 for full drain and only $18 for standard drain.

I looked at their 35 gal tanks, but shipping for anything larger than 15 gal is ~$160!!!
 

Boy

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Sorry I see that I was looking at a different one. But yes the shipping from the other suppliers is far cheaper if those models can be made to work the same for less than offset of the shipping. Not sure about this though
 

ubermick

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Yep, the full drain one is more desirable, given that it's... well, full drain! (No annoying lip around the dump port for trub to sit undisturbed).

And yep, those Ace tanks ship from one destination, Roto-Mold's plant in Iowa. But it certainly seems that tank-depot is marking up Roto-Mold's shipping charges to a ridiculous degree, unless they're called on it. (The Norwesco tanks, which would be shipping from a place about a two hour's drive from my house, is $23 and change)

Again, I'd recommend spraysmarter.com - their initial prices are a little higher than tank depot, but at least they're charging actual shipping.
 
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Depending on tank-depot's distribution chain and shipping arrangements they may be legitimately charging you the least available to them. It looks like they charge freight based upon where it is coming from and where it is going.

Although they may or may not be charging a premium on the manufacturer's shipping costs, that premium may be part of their processing expense for arranging shipment. Additionally, their costs may be a function of an agreement between them, the manufacturer and the carrier. Other sellers may have different agreements or may eat some of the shipping costs by building in some of the expenses elsewhere, such as the cost of the goods. I don't know what of all of that is true but there may be legitimate reasons beyond just trying to screw their customers.

Additionally, I don't see why you are upset that they are asking you to prove you found a better deal. If they are going to eat half the shipping costs to make you a deal, I can see why they wouldn't just accept somebody over the internet said it is so. If you go into retail stores and try to get them to price match they often will want to see an advertisement with the price or call the other store.
 

ubermick

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I'm not bothered at all by the fact that they asked for proof of a lower price. Any time I've used a company's price match feature, be it for brewing equipment, mountain biking stuff, or anything else, that's always the case.

As to there being legitimate reasons for their shipping charges being that high, I don't buy it. Given that no matter where you buy them from, the Ace tanks are all shipped from the exact same location - via Roto-Weld/DenHartog themselves - I find it suspicious to say the least that one company is charging three times more than anyone else for the exact same thing. (I just contacted another Ace tank supplier for a shipping quote, and it came out to $27, half of what tank-depot is charging)

If they weren't marking it up to high heaven, then reducing the shipping from $112.26 for two tanks down to $35 would mean that they're now losing money on the transaction, at which point a company would say "We're sorry, we can't match that."
 

Aquaholic

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Here's a super easy way to find out if you're being overcharged...just go to UPS.com!
Here's what I get when looking at the shipping charges based on weight, dimensions, and shipping points.

Guaranteed By: By End of Day
Monday January 17, 2011

Package 1 Package 2
UPS Ground
60.40 USD 60.40 USD
Fuel Surcharge 3.32 USD 3.32 USD
Charges Per Package 63.72 USD 63.72 USD
Shipment Total: 127.44 USD

Ship To: san rafael, 94901, UNITED STATES Ship From: hospers, 51238, UNITED STATES Shipment Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 Total Shipment Weight: 30 lbs.

15 lbs. 28 x 19 x 19 in. /
My Packaging Not Entered Dimensional Weight applies
(Billable Weight: 61.0 LBS.)

I must assume that these guys have accounts with discounts if one quotes $53 per tank. Should be interesting to see how your tanks arrive; FedEx/UPS/USPS. I can't see how that was an accurate freight quote; yeaterday I had to ship a package to Texas with similiar measurements; USPS was the cheapest at $31.03. Please let us know how they arrive!! I'm wondering if I should be ordering a few extra tanks before spraysmarter realized they're undercharging...
 

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A bit off topic December issue Popular Mechanics has an article where they installed data-logging into a package sent across the US thru different carriers, USPS, FedEx and USPS. Temp swings, G-forces, position changes.
Spikes over 6-g's, .5 USPS, 2.0 UPS, FedEx 3.1, yo takes your chances.
I find UPS cheaper than FedEx, USPS the most expensive.
 

TankDepot

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Thank you for contributing your experience with Tank Depot and for utilizing our Total Price Guarantee ( http://www.tank-depot.com/total-price-guarantee.aspx ).
I looked into shipping methods for the 15 Gallon Full Drain Inductor Tank. Our cost to ship via UPS Ground (with discount) is $48.13 per tank. There is an additional $8 "not encased in cardboard" fee per package not encased in cardboard.
USPS could deliver these tanks via Parcel Post at $22.52 each package. Unfortunately, Ace does not offer USPS shipping and Parcel Post requires that the sender bring their packages to the Post Office.
I do not know how Spray Smarter is shipping the tanks for they rate they are quoting. I too would be interested to know the delivery service used, if possible.

"If they weren't marking it up to high heaven, then reducing the shipping from $112.26 for two tanks down to $35 would mean that they're now losing money on the transaction, at which point a company would say "We're sorry, we can't match that.""
You are correct; we were going to lose money on the transaction by matching the delivered price of another vendor. Our Total Price Guarantee promises to match or beat lower prices. We take integrity seriously and stand behind what we say. Additionally, the guarantee allows us to monitor and improve our pricing, service, and shipping methods.

I thank you for allowing us to honor our guarantee. Please let me know what freight carrier delivers these tanks. Hopefully we can find more economical carriers for our customers.

Cheers!
 

insnekamkze86

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Thank you for that find ubermick sounds like a better deal because you only have to pay the shipping charges of ups instead of a freight carrier which will cost more because of the fuel truck and shipping costs to get it to ur door. Unlike ups theres only one flat rate charge to factor in instead of several.

I am looking at more like the 35 to 60 gallon tanks which are like 120 to 150 so shipping would be a pain if gone through tank depot bc its like a additional 150 to 200 bucks in shipping, of course they wont match the competition bc they would lose money and every business needs to make money off of the their customers. Even though its insane for the shipping prices its understandable for tank depot but still i will go else were because i want to get the equipment and supplies to brew not just the equipment.

So thank you again for that discovery because i have never heard of that company, but i didnt do alot of research either to find it.
 

ElevenBrewCo

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no offense to tank depot, but spray smarter without a doubt is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper. I just ordered 3 15 gallon tanks from spraysmarter for 189 shipped!!

Spraysmarter.com-

Tanks-$52x3=156
Shipping-$22.55(indiana)
Tax-$10.92

Total=$189.47!!

Tankdepot-

Tanks-59x3-$176
Shipping- $91.86!!!!!!
Tax-?

total(without tax)-$267

difference is damn near 100 bucks in savings if you add tankdepot tax.......


can i get some lube for that shipping rape?
 

TankDepot

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Take those deals while you can! We had looked into this earlier this year. Their calculator is based on weight only. When the dimensions of the packages are factored in, the shipping costs rise considerably. If/when they review their freight bills, they'll find that these orders are costing them all their profit and then some and the issue will need to be addressed.
Get while the gettin's good!
Cheers
 

insnekamkze86

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Maybe so but I don't see it happening anytime soon I guess there's a reason why there is always more than one company that makes a product u need bc one company is cheaper than the other yes the old saying is u get what u pay for but that's not always the case tank depot may.be a good company if not great but most people.r not.going to pay those overpriced freight charges unless its out the country that's why we buy from the competitor no offensei
 
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