Sweetening and bottle conditioning questions

[Firestix]

So, I was happy to see a couple of recent similar questions in the forum but wanted to ask my question since I felt that this question was fully answered.

I’ve been brewing cider for about a year and have had some great results … and some pretty lousy results (Learning from both experience types). My method is to brew, bottle, and heat pasteurize when I get the preferred amount of carbonation. I now want to make things (sweetness and carbonation) more measured and reproducible while still bottle conditioning. I have a couple of options (that I know of) that can possibly give the results I am looking for. Please read this as an open invitation for advice on the best way to get the best sought after results by bottle conditioning. These results are:
1- 5%-8% ABV cider, cyser, or mead
2- Semi-sweet to sweet in taste
3- Carbonated
4- Pasteurized. (to avoid bottle bombs)

Right now I have done this in a couple of different methods.

Method 1- Brew the cider until fermentation has slowed considerably. Rack it off into a secondary bottling bucket, then (maybe a day or two later) bottle. Use a soda bottle as a carbonation indicator. Once carbonation has reached a satisfactory level, proceed to heat pasteurize the bottles. (I’m thinking of using the hydrometer to measure fermentation to a specific level of gravity/PABV/Brix and then bottle condition)

Method 2- Brew the cider until fermentation has stopped. Rack it over a measured amount of apple juice (back-sweeten for taste and carbonation) in a secondary bottling bucket. Then bottle and pasteurize using the same above method. (I’m thinking of back-sweetening to a specific Gravity/PABV/Brix level before bottling.)

My questions are:
Which of these methods would be better?

What Gravity/PABV level/Brix is the optimum to bottle at to reach the magical 5%-8%, Semi-sweet, carbonated drink that I am trying to obtain?
Is there a better way or something I am missing? (staying within the realm of bottle conditioning/pasteurizing)

Thanks in advance for your insight!

 

[timdillon36]

My preferred method is to sweeten at serving.

To expand on that, I ferment till finished which is for me about 3 weeks in primary and 3 months in secondary. Then use a measured amount of sugar at bottling to achieve the desired carbonation. I prefer my cider dry but my wife likes hers sweet. I just add some simple syrup or fresh juice to her glass.

 

[Firestix]

My preferred method is to sweeten at serving.

To expand on that, I ferment till finished which is for me about 3 weeks in primary and 3 months in secondary. Then use a measured amount of sugar at bottling to achieve the desired carbonation. I prefer my cider dry but my wife likes hers sweet. I just add some simple syrup or fresh juice to her glass.

What's the formula for carbonation? (amount of sugar per volume of cider = what percent of carbonation)
...and what's the formula for sweetness? (amount of sugar per volume of cider = what level of sweetness) I assume sweetness can be measured as brix, right?

 

[timdillon36]

What's the formula for carbonation? (amount of sugar per volume of cider = what percent of carbonation)

I use an online priming sugar calculator. You enter in the amount of cider or beer to be bottled and the desired carbonation and it will tell you how much sugar to use.

http://www.brewunited.com/priming_sugar_calculator.php

...and what's the formula for sweetness? (amount of sugar per volume of cider = what level of sweetness) I assume sweetness can be measured as brix, right?

Sugar content can be measured by brix or any other gravity reading. Different sugars will have a different perceived sweetness.
The only way to know if it is to your taste is to taste it.

As a general rule if comparing to tea 1 cup of sugar per gal is sweet. 1.5-2c/g is southern style extra sweet. 1/2c is kinda sweet

 

[Drewed]

I ferment until done, then back-sweeten to taste, then bottle with either carbonation drops. Yeah, I know that the drops are over kill as there is sugar with the backsweet, but I want that to stay after carbonation, so I over sweet with the carb drop. I also fill a 12oz soda bottle, but I have fitted the cap with a pressure gauge. Once the pressure reads about 22-30 ( room temp ) I pop a bottle to check. If all is good I pasteurize, if not I let it sit longer.

 

[Firestix]

Sugar content can be measured by brix or any other gravity reading. Different sugars will have a different perceived sweetness.
The only way to know if it is to your taste is to taste it.

As a general rule if comparing to tea 1 cup of sugar per gal is sweet. 1.5-2c/g is southern style extra sweet. 1/2c is kinda sweet

I live in the south and 1 cup of sugar per gal is sweet ... 1.5-2 cups per gallon is diabetes.

BTW, We use the organic pure cane sugar.

 

[Firestix]

I ferment until done, then back-sweeten to taste, then bottle with either carbonation drops. Yeah, I know that the drops are over kill as there is sugar with the backsweet, but I want that to stay after carbonation, so I over sweet with the carb drop. I also fill a 12oz soda bottle, but I have fitted the cap with a pressure gauge. Once the pressure reads about 22-30 ( room temp ) I pop a bottle to check. If all is good I pasteurize, if not I let it sit longer.

Do you have the plans for that pressure gauge do-hicky? Or even a link to where I can purchase the gauge?

 

[Maylar]

Do you have the plans for that pressure gauge do-hicky? Or even a link to where I can purchase the gauge?

See this thread - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=591360

 

[ericbw]

I hate to be a bummer, but it's VERY hard to make a semi-sweet, carbonated cider that's bottle conditioned. It's definitely going to take some trial and error.

Your first method is sort of rustic, and the way it might have been attempted back in the day. But it would be very hard to be consistent because cider ferments quickly. You might get bottle bombs or you might get flat cider.

The second method works better because you can control it, but its still hard to really get it at the right moment.

(Force carbonation is the easiest way to success, and it can be done with a very small investment - paintball size CO2 tank, gauge, hose, ball lock disconnect, carbonator caps, soda bottles. You could do it for under $100).

 

[MarkKF]

Or sweeten with a non-fermentable to taste then add priming sugar or drops to bottle condition.

 

[timdillon36]

My preferred method is to sweeten at serving

I guess I can quote myself. Who knew?

It's like asking how do you like your coffee rather than what coffee. Cream or sugar? 1 or 2?

I understand this isn't traditional to blend or mix a beer or a cider at serving from a bottle but ask anybody that has more than 2 taps if they have mixed more than one.

I understand this doesnt work if you want to send a bottle to a comp but it works fine at home.

 

[Firestix]

I guess I can quote myself. Who knew?

It's like asking how do you like your coffee rather than what coffee. Cream or sugar? 1 or 2?

I understand this isn't traditional to blend or mix a beer or a cider at serving from a bottle but ask anybody that has more than 2 taps if they have mixed more than one.

I understand this doesnt work if you want to send a bottle to a comp but it works fine at home.

I wish I was good enough to send bottles to a comp!
I understand I can mix at serving ... but wouldn't that lack carbonation?

 

[Firestix]

Or sweeten with a non-fermentable to taste then add priming sugar or drops to bottle condition.

Thanks MarkKF, but unfortuantely I've yet to find a non-fermentable that did not cause my wife or myself any health reations.

...or even taste good.

 

[Firestix]

I think I will try both option 1 and option 2 while using the hydrometer to track fermentation. We'll see how it goes from there.:rockin:

 

[Drewed]

See this thread - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=591360

Yep that is it. But I nixed the adapter and found a nut that screws right on to the gauge. I also used a little food safe gasket in a tube

 

[MarkKF]

I have not bottle conditioned in years. I used to use 3/4 cup sugar per 5 gal. to get my desired carbonation. So how much priming sugar will get a higher carb. but not bottle bombs in 1 gal. of cider (to be divided into bombers)?

 

[Yooper]

I have not bottle conditioned in years. I used to use 3/4 cup sugar per 5 gal. to get my desired carbonation. So how much priming sugar will get a higher carb. but not bottle bombs in 1 gal. of cider (to be divided into bombers)?

I'd probably go with no more than 3 volumes of c02 if you're bottling in beer bottles. I'd use this calculator to determine the exact amount of sugar: https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

 

[MarkKF]

Thank you. 1.3 oz. corn sugar. for 1 gal. 3.0 vols.