Stuck vorlauf

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kevy

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I can't figure out what went wrong with my first all Grain batch.
Most people talk about the occasional stuck sparge. I couldn't even get the vorlauf right.

The second I cracked open the valve to vorlauf... Nothing. I tried blowing back into the tube Opening and closing the valve No matter what I did it remained stuck. Blowing a little into the tube would allow it to flow for maybe 5 seconds then it would stick again I continued this for about an hour until I have up
The problem is when I dough in I'm apparently stirring grain underneath the false bottom.
Northern brew says to try a "mini" vorlauf as I'm doughing in. Wich I can't rap my head around doesn't seem to make sense to me
I check the bottom and it sits perfectly flat on the bottom of the cooler

Why am I stirring grain under the bottom? I stir softly

Thanks. Sorry so long
 
your false bottom sits perfectly flat on the bottom of the cooler?

makes it irrelevant then.

the false bottom should sit up a little off the bottom and you should have a dip tube from the drain valve to underneath the false bottom.

the purpose for that is for the dip tube to pick the wort, while the false bottom holds up the grain bed, preventing it from getting into the dip tube
 
Did you or northern Brewer crush the grain?

If not already dough in a little grain at a time and not all at once, and when doughing in be careful your not hitting the house that connects your false bottom as this can cause it to lift and grain to get under it.
 
Northern brewer crushed for me.
You know. I did hit the tubing a couple of time while stirring
You think it raised it enough to get a lot of grain under there?
I tried to stir softly
 
kevy said:
Northern brewer crushed for me.
You know. I did hit the tubing a couple of time while stirring
You think it raised it enough to get a lot of grain under there?
I tried to stir softly
Click to expand...

doesn't need "a lot" of grain to get stuck

but you didn't answer my question. YOU SAID in OP

kevy said:
I check the bottom and it sits perfectly flat on the bottom of the cooler
Click to expand...

IF it is sitting "perfectly flat" on the bottom of the cooler, with absolutely NO ROOM under it, it is doing absolutely nothing to prevent grain from getting into and blocking the dip tube
 
The only thing I can think is dough in more gently next time and don't hit the bottom or tube. If that doesn't work then I don't know. What yall think
 
The only thing I can say is be more carefull when doughing in not to hit the tube, What i assume happened was just enough grain got under the false bottom to keep it a little raised off the bottom and when you went to do the vorlauf it pulled more in and compacted to cause the clog.
 
I have the exact same one, and never have had that problem, and I stir vigorously, and hit the tube/bottom/etc all the time. Do you put water in first, then slowly mix in the grain? Maybe double check that things aren't crimped/clogged: if you put water in and drained it out (no grain) would it flow freely?
 
Durso81 said:
The only thing I can say is be more carefull when doughing in not to hit the tube, What i assume happened was just enough grain got under the false bottom to keep it a little raised off the bottom and when you went to do the vorlauf it pulled more in and compacted to cause the clog.
Click to expand...

I just can't see that happening. I've got the same one and have never come close to this problem and I'm not gentle doughing in. it's not like a vacuum sucking tons of grain under if theres a hint of it coming through...it would have to start with grain under it to have that big of a problem, and even then, I can't see it really clogging that much?
 
That's another frustration. Everyone that says they have this set up has said they don't have a problem at all.
 
It clogged every time for an hour. I could only get a flow for about 5 seconds before it clogged again. And I had to have the valve wide open. Valve cracked open 1/4 or 1/2 of the way I never got anything out
 
christyle said:
Do you put water in first, then slowly mix in the grain? Maybe double check that things aren't crimped/clogged: if you put water in and drained it out (no grain) would it flow freely?
Click to expand...

You want to get a good stir to ensure it all gets well mixed with no dry spots. I wouldn't stir less, if anything, I would stir more. Next time it happens, leave your valve open and try stirring the grain bed up to get the flow going. I've had to do it on some stuck sparges with lots of oats or too fine of a grind. Thats another thing...what is your grain bill on this? Maybe try adding rice hulls?
 
Why do you have a false bottom in a kettle and in the cooler? Which are you using to Mash?

You could have poured or siphoned everything into the boil kettle, reset the false bottom, then poured it back and tried again.

Try just water in the cooler and stir, is the false bottom moving? Does it lift because there is air in the tubing connecting it to the valve before you pour grain in?
 
I'm going out on a limb here however, did you wet test it first? I'm curious if there's something wrong with the valve or something stuck in the elbow or (as I have done before), inadvertently covered an opening when applying plumbers tape to the threads?
 
If you're super frustrated you can switch to a SS hose braid. That's what I have on my mash tun and works very well
 
Next time, rather than blow back into the tube, try just stirring the mash up until you get some flow going, i'm thinking maybe you are getting clumps that keep the mash from getting through, I can't see anything else. Then you'll just need to vorlauf a few more quarts or so, no big deal. If you still have that problem, dump it to your kettle and then check to see if anything is getting under your false bottom, then pour it all back into your mash tun.

Is your false bottom in a kettle? Cooler? How much space is there between edge of false bottom and your mash tun sides?

Do you have clamps on that tubing from valve to the elbow on the false bottom? I think i keep pulling grain in through those connections until i put a couple good stainless clamps on there. Buy a pack of these for lots of brewing needs. They're real stainless and won't rust.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006IOZ3YU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bottom is in a cooler. I have no clamps on the tubing

I'm not frustrated. Just trying to figure out what went wrong to avoid it next time
 
Yes. You are correct. Take a look at the other picture
 
How heavy is the false bottom? There will be air trapped in the tubing connecting it to the valve unless bled out after the water is added. The false bottom isn't trying to float until it gets grain weight on it is it?
 
jddevinn said:
How heavy is the false bottom? There will be air trapped in the tubing connecting it to the valve unless bled out after the water is added. The false bottom isn't trying to float until it gets grain weight on it is it?
Click to expand...

I have it, it's plenty heavy. I have the exact same setup with no issues. Either way, the air trapped doesn't have a way to really make the thing float, it isn't any real significant volume and it can't apply leverage to that thing to lift it up like a balloon, it's too tightly constrained at it's 2 connection points.
 
I think I may just have to try it again and dissect it if it happens again. I'll just spoon everything out then see how much is under
 
Believe me, stir it until you can get something coming out, and make sure you are getting to the bottom and touching the false bottom. If you stir it plenty and STILL can't get it started, the only other thing would be a ton of grain under your false bottom, which I just can't understand, especially with that grain bill, unless it was dehusked, with a powder fine flour grind.

With the small flow that was coming out, did you get any chunks of grain?
 
If you ever get a stuck runoff you can always try underletting. I have done this when I have gotten a stuck runoff when I was making a oatmeal stout. I have a pump but as described below you can do it with using another bucket. Got this from a byo article. http://byo.com/hops/item/1529-troubleshooting-a-stuck-sparge

Another good way of dealing with jammed spigots is underletting. Underletting is the practice of introducing hot water from beneath the false bottom. It is also a good way to float the grain bed off of the perforated plates when they clog or stick.

Homebrewers can underlet using a bucket with a plastic spigot on the bottom. Secure a plastic hose so that it connects the spigots of the lauter tun and the plastic bucket. Pour hot water (168° F) into the plastic bucket and open the spigots. When you lift the plastic bucket above the mash tun, gravity will force the hot water under the plates in the lauter tun, clearing out any clogs and resuspending the grain bed.
 
Durso81 said:
Another good way of dealing with jammed spigots is underletting. Underletting is the practice of introducing hot water from beneath the false bottom. It is also a good way to float the grain bed off of the perforated plates when they clog or stick.

Homebrewers can underlet using a bucket with a plastic spigot on the bottom. Secure a plastic hose so that it connects the spigots of the lauter tun and the plastic bucket. Pour hot water (168° F) into the plastic bucket and open the spigots. When you lift the plastic bucket above the mash tun, gravity will force the hot water under the plates in the lauter tun, clearing out any clogs and resuspending the grain bed.
Click to expand...

What would be the benefits of this over just re-stirring the grain bed to get things in suspension? I understand the purpose, but seems like more work than just giving a little stir.
 
Another thing I had issues with at first was compacting the grain bed over the false bottom. When I was starting to vorlauf, I was just cranking the valve wide open and letting wort drain off as fast as it could. This was sucking the grain bed down against the false bottom and compacting it to the point where no liquid could filter through it. Now, I open it gently, about 1/4 - 1/2 way to vorlauf and sparge and haven't had any problems.
 
christyle said:
I just can't see that happening. I've got the same one and have never come close to this problem and I'm not gentle doughing in. it's not like a vacuum sucking tons of grain under if theres a hint of it coming through...it would have to start with grain under it to have that big of a problem, and even then, I can't see it really clogging that much?
Click to expand...


I agree it's not like a vacuum suck but if he got just enough under the false bottom it wouldn't take much to clog the opening under the false bottom or the barb on the false bottom there not very big openings. And since he added water first then grain the only way I see grain getting under to clog is the false bottom got raised a little by hitting the hose with what ever he uses to stir which would move the false bottom a little.
 
christyle said:
I just can't see that happening. I've got the same one and have never come close to this problem and I'm not gentle doughing in. it's not like a vacuum sucking tons of grain under if theres a hint of it coming through...it would have to start with grain under it to have that big of a problem, and even then, I can't see it really clogging that much?
Click to expand...


I agree it's not like a vacuum suck but if he got just enough under the false bottom it wouldn't take much to clog the opening under the false bottom or the barb on the false bottom there not very big openings. And since he added water first then grain the only way I see grain getting under to clog is the false bottom got raised a little by hitting the hose with what ever he uses to stir which would move the false bottom a little. Agree the chance of this is low but I can't think of how grain would get under another way.
 
Agreed, that's why it seems like it has to be something else...

How much water did you mash with @kevy?
 
Hey Kevy,

Have you checked your ball valve? Once I had a single grain lodge inside the ball valve. I could not drain well with it in there. I had to get a toothpick and poke it around until if came out.

Don't get discouraged. It happens. I am sure you will get it next time.

Cheers.
 
Yes I would open the valve slowly and only 1/4 at first

I use a stainless steel spoon to stir.
Possibly a freak accident when hitting the tubing lifting the bottom a little?
 

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