Stuck fermentation.......Saison

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I have a Saison that has been in primary for 11 days. My OG was 1.076 and my final gravity is supposed to be around 1.018, don't have directions right in front of me. I took a reading today and it was at 1.065? I was thinking I might have gotten the yeast too cold as I used a Wyeast Belgium strain and at one point it got down to 63 degrees in my fermentation cabinet as I was fermenting a Vanilla Cream Ale. I took the Saison out several days ago, probably 3 or 4, and had some activity in the airlock. So I took my reading today and was baffled that it was still this high?! I moved my primary upstairs so it would warm up and gave the bucket a swirl, might've splashed just a little just once. I still only have minimal activity. Any suggestions??? I double pitched this batch due to it's high OG by-the-way.

 

[jheld00]

Your gonna want to get that puppy warm if your using the strain I think you are get it in the 80s and just wait it will finish and more than likely finish way lower than 1.018. Its a great yeast but a PITA I now only use the French strain(3711) it's a beast!!!

 

[BBL_Brewer]

Was this an all grain batch? If so, did you do a conversion check? Maybe your mash got messed up. Hard to believe that the gravity is that high 11 days later. Especially since you observed activity in the fermenter. If you've warmed it up and roused the yeast and still nothing, I would consider shooting it with oxygen and pitching more yeast. The gravity is so high, I don't think adding more O2 will hurt anything. While you're in there, pull a sample and see if tastes ok.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

No it was an extract batch, I used 3 lbs of light DME. I'm going to give it a few days and then maybe repitch from there. If I do that I need to reaerate again then correct?

 

[twigboy2000]

Warm it up and wait it out. That strain is a notorious slow fermenter. Some speculate that it's a wine yeast derivative. I love the flavors it produces but usually allocate 6 weeks for fermentation to complete when using it.

-chuck

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Okay, thanks for the info. I moved it to the garage last night to warm it up and it's starting to bubble again, 2 or 3 bubbles every 2 seconds or so. I'm going to have to move it back inside though as the temps are supposed to be in the 100's with the heat index. It was about 80 when I moved it out there last night. Evidently I'm going to have to rig up a heating element next for strains like this. I have cooling chamber but nothing for heat......wasn't on my radar frankly. I never thought I'd need to ferment above 70 or so.

 

[TopherM]

The Wyeast site states that the optimum fermenting temps for your Wyeast Belgian Saison is 70-95 F, so your original ferm temp was definitely the issue. Put this one at room temp, give the bottom of your solution a few slight swirls to re-suspend the yeast, and everything should pick back up.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Yep, looks like everything is back on track. Does anyone know where I can get a chart for specific yeast strains and what temps they like? Obviously, that would be handy!

 

[TopherM]

Yep, looks like everything is back on track. Does anyone know where I can get a chart for specific yeast strains and what temps they like? Obviously, that would be handy!

It's usually on the yeast packaging. You can also find the yeast stats on the manufacturers Web sites.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

It's usually on the yeast packaging. You can also find the yeast stats on the manufacturers Web sites.

Hmmm, I didn't notice it on any of the yeasts I just used recently. From now on I'll go to their websites. Appreciate the information, it'll help me from having to guess so much.

 

[beerandloathinginaustin]

Hmmm, I didn't notice it on any of the yeasts I just used recently. From now on I'll go to their websites. Appreciate the information, it'll help me from having to guess so much.

Sounds like you used the trickiest Saison strain. It's notorious for stalling. I've read heating and rousing a little can help. Apparently at high temps it'll finish out in 3 weeks if you have patience. 3711 will finish it up nicely (Wyeast actually recommends finishing it with 3711). 3711 is incidentally not nearly as spicy but it's a beast of a yeast. It actually took my virginity and turned it into alcohol.

I've only used WLP565 aka the yeast you're using once. I blended it with WL001 Cali ale from the start cause I needed the beer ready in 2 weeks. That did well and tasted great. Blending that yeast may be the way to go.

 

[jheld00]

I ended up getting a Wyeast poster from my LHBS(for free) that has all their strains with descriptions, temp range, floc rates, and attenuation percentages. It really comes in handy when choosing a yeast(plus you can wow your friends with how yeast strains there are). You might ask your LHBS if they could get you one.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I'll try that jheld00, thanks for the info.

beerandloatinginaustin, So you're suggesting I finish with the 3711? How would I go about this and how would I know when to add it? If it helps the beer finish properly I'm all for the suggestion.

 

[beerandloathinginaustin]

Yes, I am! I'm not sure if you would make a starter with the smack pack or just pitch it straight out of the pack. I suspect either would work. I'd think you could just throw it in whenever you feel like speeding the process up. Might be worth a little searching and researching though.

 

[boostsr20]

Trinity brewing in co springs uses a blend of 3711/3724 for most of their saisons. I just did a batch pitching both together and at 78 degrees it reached fg in about 3 days.

 

[beerandloathinginaustin]

At that temp and it going that quickly I'd expect the 3711 to have been pretty dominant. Still get pretty pronounced spicyness?

 

[statseeker]

I'm probably going to underpitch on my next saison to try and stress the 3724 yeast into giving me some fruitiness. Then I'll finish it out with champagne yeast or 3711 if my LHBS has it. Hell I might even go as far as to use some brett dregs to input some complexity.

 

[boostsr20]

At that temp and it going that quickly I'd expect the 3711 to have been pretty dominant. Still get pretty pronounced spicyness?

I didn't have a real good way of doing what they do (25/75 I believe) so I just pitched together. Thought about giving the 3724 a couple day head start but didn't because its a Farmhouse ipa so I just wanted a subtle spiciness. Haven't sampled yet but I'll let you know how it ends up.

 

[Spartan1979]

I brewed with that yeast earlier in the summer. I had it fermenting at 85° and it would only drop about 10 points a week. I finally bumped it up to 90° and it finally finished.

I had to use a space heater in a downstairs bath. My family was not thrilled about tying up a bathroom that long. I now have a fridge for fermenting so I can just use that next time.

 

[beerloaf]

I personally love the 565 however I see a lot of people not use it properly. Same applies to the Wyeast. My last Saison I went from 1.052 to 1.004 so this yeast does work well. However there are 2 points a lot of folks seem to miss. 1. Make a large starter. For my last batch I ended up with an 1800 ml starter. 2. Keep it warm while fermenting. 78*F + I kept mine in the low 80s and that worked out great. Belgian strains have a tendency to crap out on you if you "shock" them with low temps. Some strains will not start up again.

beerloaf

 

[statseeker]

I was thinking about underpitching. Will making a large starter and fermenting high bring out the esters or underpitching and fermenting high? Or both? I did mine in the low 70s last time and it came out funky tasting. Not in a brett way, but in a weird sort of way. Not bad, but just funky. I dunno how to describe it. But with age it tasted pretty good.

 

[boostsr20]

I prefer a big pitch and high temps. Underpitching and ferment high can lead to fusel alcohols. Underpitching can lead to stuck fermentations too, the yeast will wear themselves out if they eat too quickly.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

The good thing is mine is still bubbling away every 10 seconds or so, but it is slowing down. I'll wait until the bubbling stops before I mess with it again. Might finish it with the 3711 mentioned earlier.