Strange, but not gross flavor?

[pittbrewing]

Hey I am a new to home brewing and need some help figuring out what I am doing wrong.
I purchased extract kits from northern brewer, used Safale US05 each time, and used corn sugar and bottles to carbonate.

The first batch I made was a pale ale. It sat in primary for 10 days at ~70F, then was racked to secondary and dry hopped for 7 days. At bottling I tasted some and it tasted pretty good for a warm flat beer. After bottling, I waited a week and tried some and noticed a strange strawberry banana flavor(?). So I waited another week, tried another and the flavor was even stronger.

So now I brewed another pale ale, bottled it 5 days ago, and threw one in the fridge today to test. This beer has that strange flavor too, although it is not as strong.

I have tried to research this, but haven't really found anything definitive. The first batch I believe I pitched my yeast at too high of a temperature, but for the second batch I checked it with a thermometer and it was 70F. Also in both beers the FG was 1.010.

So what is causing this off flavor? Also, what yeasts tend to produce less fruity esters? I really enjoy the bitterness of pales and IPA's so the sweetness is definitely a let down.

 

[tarcrarc]

Hey I am a new to home brewing and need some help figuring out what I am doing wrong.
I purchased extract kits from northern brewer, used Safale US05 each time, and used corn sugar and bottles to carbonate.

The first batch I made was a pale ale. It sat in primary for 10 days at ~70F, then was racked to secondary and dry hopped for 7 days. At bottling I tasted some and it tasted pretty good for a warm flat beer. After bottling, I waited a week and tried some and noticed a strange strawberry banana flavor(?). So I waited another week, tried another and the flavor was even stronger.

So now I brewed another pale ale, bottled it 5 days ago, and threw one in the fridge today to test. This beer has that strange flavor too, although it is not as strong.

I have tried to research this, but haven't really found anything definitive. The first batch I believe I pitched my yeast at too high of a temperature, but for the second batch I checked it with a thermometer and it was 70F. Also in both beers the FG was 1.010.

So what is causing this off flavor? Also, what yeasts tend to produce less fruity esters? I really enjoy the bitterness of pales and IPA's so the sweetness is definitely a let down.

I’d start with getting that temp down to 65. With WLP001 it’ll ferment it just fine. How are you measuring the temp? Inside out outside of the wort? If outside, it has probably been higher than 70 internally.

 

[ba-brewer]

Us-05 is know to give a peach flavor at times. It only happen once for me and I actually like the flavor in a pale ale. Some say it usually only happens on the first pitch.

Banana flavor could be from a wild yeast, if your beers start gushing on opening something got in there. If that happens you need to be careful with those bottles and they could burst.

You can dry hop in the primary without going to secondary. Less transfers reduced the chances of contaminations.

US-05 fermented around 65 to 70 is pretty clean, WLP090 is a bit cleaner but is a liquid yeast and you need to make a starter.

 

[thehaze]

Strawberry/banana flavour could be a combination of hops and yeast esters, but I doubt it's yeast esters. Even when pushed warmer than 72F, 001 and especially US-05, don't get too estery and if they do, it's not banana. At least this is my experience. And if you are getting esters from a well-known clean yeast like US-05/001, you should not really notice them in a hop driven beer. The hops would take over, so you could try using a bit more hops.

If sweetness is a problem for you, you should mash low 147-149F for 90 minutes and replace 5-10% of your grain bill with plain beet/cane sugar ( the refined kind and not brown, etc. ). Add more hops and if the bitterness was not to your liking in previous batches, try to amp it up by 10-15 IBUs and add some gypsum to your water. ( if you dabble with your water that is )

Pacman yeast is also very clean, but as with US-05 and its liquid counterparts, it should be fermented cold, like 60-61F toi be really clean. But even at 70F, most yeast will be relatively clean in terms of esters and phenols, where the case.

 

[ba-brewer]

1010 is pretty good for an extract brew. Like the thehaze said adding some sugar should help dry it some more but 1010 by itself should not be too sweet, if you add too much sugar you could end up with too light of a body and watery feel. I would look at your hops additions. Did you do a full 60min boil full volume boil or do a lower volume than top off at the end? If you do the later you will get less bitterness if the recipe was designed for full volume because you get less from a higher gravity wort.

 

[pittbrewing]

Us-05 is know to give a peach flavor at times. It only happen once for me and I actually like the flavor in a pale ale. Some say it usually only happens on the first pitch.

Banana flavor could be from a wild yeast, if your beers start gushing on opening something got in there. If that happens you need to be careful with those bottles and they could burst.

You can dry hop in the primary without going to secondary. Less transfers reduced the chances of contaminations.

US-05 fermented around 65 to 70 is pretty clean, WLP090 is a bit cleaner but is a liquid yeast and you need to make a starter.

I have not had any gushers thankfully, and actually peach is a good way to describe it also. Its just this strange fruity taste.

So your saying if I save some yeast and repitch in my next batch this flavor goes away?

 

[pittbrewing]

I’d start with getting that temp down to 65. With WLP001 it’ll ferment it just fine. How are you measuring the temp? Inside out outside of the wort? If outside, it has probably been higher than 70 internally.

Pitching temps were taken inside wort. After that I go by outside temp. For the second batch I would say the outside temp was ~68.

 

[RPh_Guy]

FYI wild yeast contamination doesn't automatically mean bottles gush.
Contamination is possible.

What hops were used?

Skip the secondary and try to keep temp at the low end of the range for your yeast.

 

[eetu]

What is your pitching practice? Do you bring the yeast package to room temperature at least 30min before pitching or wake the yeast in warm water? Also, keep in mind that ambient temperature is not your fermentation temperature. At ambient temperature of 70F the actual fermentation temperature is probably something between 75-77F. Might get some estery/fruity notes especially on the nose at those temperatures.

I don't think it has anything to do with the gravity, 1.010 is perfectly fine.

As mentioned by tarcrarc, try to get your ambient temperature below 65 to avoid fruitiness. US-05 is quite neutral when fermentation temperature stays below 73F. Never had any banana flavor using that yeast.

5 days after bottling is too soon to make any real judgment. Wait a week more and refridgerate at least a day before sampling.

In the first batch, has the off-flavor gotten worse over time or settled to a certain degree after 2-3 weeks?

I'm guessing it's the fermentation temperature, possibly combined with bad pitching practice. Both can create that fruity off flavor. Chill your wort a bit more if possible. Wake the yeast in warm water or at least, don't pitch it straight from the fridge. Control your fermentation temperature. If you can't drop your ambient temp, then try using a water bath. Put a temperature sticker on the side of your fermentation bucket.

P.S. Personally, I wouldn't rack to secondary after 10 days. You are just introducing oxygen to your beer and you have a bigger risk of contaminating your beer. Just dry hop in the primary. Three days or less is enough in most cases. You can also dry hop while fermentation is still active, at about day 4, to drive off the oxygen. Then wait a week or so and bottle. Most ales are perfectly ready to be bottled after 10 days.

 

[pittbrewing]

FYI wild yeast contamination doesn't automatically mean bottles gush.
Contamination is possible.

What hops were used?

Skip the secondary and try to keep temp at the low end of the range for your yeast.

Secondary was used in first batch but not in the second batch. Also They were bottled in 2 different states (as far as wild yeast from contamination goes) in vastly different environments, but regardless I was extremely careful and believed I sanitized things effectively.

The first was all Chinook hops. 2 oz during the boil and an oz dry hopped.

The second was Perle, Chinook, and Cascade. No dry hopping. It sat in primary for 11 days and then was bottled.

Thanks for you help

 

[pittbrewing]

What is your pitching practice? Do you bring the yeast package to room temperature at least 30min before pitching or wake the yeast in warm water? Also, keep in mind that ambient temperature is not your fermentation temperature. At ambient temperature of 70F the actual fermentation temperature is probably something between 75-77F. Might get some estery/fruity notes especially on the nose at those temperatures.

I don't think it has anything to do with the gravity, 1.010 is perfectly fine.

As mentioned by tarcrarc, try to get your ambient temperature below 65 to avoid fruitiness. US-05 is quite neutral when fermentation temperature stays below 73F. Never had any banana flavor using that yeast.

5 days after bottling is too soon to make any real judgment. Wait a week more and refridgerate at least a day before sampling.

In the first batch, has the off-flavor gotten worse over time or settled to a certain degree after 2-3 weeks?

I'm guessing it's the fermentation temperature, possibly combined with bad pitching practice. Both can create that fruity off flavor. Chill your wort a bit more if possible. Wake the yeast in warm water or at least, don't pitch it straight from the fridge. Control your fermentation temperature. If you can't drop your ambient temp, then try using a water bath. Put a temperature sticker on the side of your fermentation bucket.

P.S. Personally, I wouldn't rack to secondary after 10 days. You are just introducing oxygen to your beer and you have a bigger risk of contaminating your beer. Just dry hop in the primary. Three days or less is enough in most cases. You can also dry hop while fermentation is still active, at about day 4, to drive off the oxygen. Then wait a week or so and bottle. Most ales are perfectly ready to be bottled after 10 days.

For pitching, I pull the packet out before I start the boil and let it sit out (probably for 2 hours total) and then soak in sanitizer, tear open, and sprinkle in fermentor.

And for the first batch, it didnt last 3 weeks. I had a combination of 12 oz and 22 oz bottles. After the first week, some buddies and I tried it out and most of the 12 oz bottles were gone. The next week we had the larger bottles. The fruity smell was much stronger, and so was the taste, but as I said above, the beer still tasted good, it was just not what I expected. It really masked the hops.

To chill I have done the ice bath method, as I do not have a chiller. I am pretty generous with the ice and am able to grab the sides the kettle and leave my hands there after about 20 minutes. I add about 2.5 gallons of cold water, say 35F, to the fermentor and then pour my wort in and then top it off.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I was extremely careful and believed I sanitized things effectively.

You literally dumped flowers into the beer a week before packaging. There may have been some yeast on the hop flowers...
Yeast floats around in the air, so no brews are 100% free of contaminants.
Did you use an alkaline cleaner soak between brews, disassembling and soaking all the cold-side parts? It's possible some wild yeast carried over from the first beer to the second if some cells stayed on your equipment (especially plastic).

I'm not saying contamination is likely, but it is possible.

 

[eetu]

Could be a combination of things. Muted hops could be a result of oxidation or contamination, fruitiness fermentation temps. You might get gushers after a month or so if it's contamination. Hard to say for sure. If the off flavor keeps getting stronger, i'd say it's contamination. If not, maybe just oxidation.

 

[ba-brewer]

I have not had any gushers thankfully, and actually peach is a good way to describe it also. Its just this strange fruity taste.

So your saying if I save some yeast and repitch in my next batch this flavor goes away?

That is what I read that peach esters from US-05 is a first pitch thing. I don't recall if I repitched the yeast from when I got the esters but I probably did as that is my normal practice. I use that yeast often and it is pretty clean for me. I do have temperature control now, but the time I got the esters I did not have temp control.

1oz of dry hops will not provide a lot of impact to a beer but it will give some. For a 5gal batch 1 to 2 oz of hops in the boil is what I use for a blonde ale with no dry hops, 2 or 3 oz in the boil with 2 or 3 oz dry hops for a pale ale, at least 4 oz in the boil and another 4 to 6 oz dry hop for an IPA. The couple NEIPAs I have made used 12oz total and I know other people use more than that.

 

[ba-brewer]

The first was all Chinook hops. 2 oz during the boil and an oz dry hopped.
Thanks for you help

Was this the chinook IPA kit?
https://www.northernbrewer.com/collections/extract-ale-recipe-kits/products/chinook-ipa-extract-kit

If you followed the directions in the recipe/instructions you will end with a beer with IBUs around 30, maybe a little higher.

If you have a pot big enough to do a full volume you can get up to around 50IBUs with the same amount of hops. If you can not do full volume boils you could just add the DME at 60min then add the LME at last 10min and that will booster the IBU.

 

[pittbrewing]

Was this the chinook IPA kit?
https://www.northernbrewer.com/collections/extract-ale-recipe-kits/products/chinook-ipa-extract-kit

If you followed the directions in the recipe/instructions you will end with a beer with IBUs around 30, maybe a little higher.

If you have a pot big enough to do a full volume you can get up to around 50IBUs with the same amount of hops. If you can not do full volume boils you could just add the DME at 60min then add the LME at last 10min and that will booster the IBU.

Yes that was the kit. By full volume you mean what, 7-8 gallons? Unfortunately, I do not have a pot that large, or a way to boil that volume of water.

I am curious though, How does a full boil raise the IBUs like that?

 

[ba-brewer]

You get better utilization of hops with lower gravity wort. Some sugar works better than no sugar so you cant use straight water for boiling the hops.

Adding most of your extract at the end of boil will help getting more from your hops, but also give a slightly lighter color.

You should looking into getting beersmith or using one of the online recipe programs, it helps to play around with ingredients and see how they effect the end beer. Even if you still buy kits you can double check their recipe.

Looking at the chinook kit it appears it was calculated for a full volume boil but the instruction are for a top up approach.