Stout Kettles/Electric Brewery

[Roadie]

Hey everyone. I recently ordered 20g Stout MT, HLT, BK for use in a system we're building to be hooked into one of Kal's control panels. Certainly someone else has done this before me.

I was looking at how everything would hook up tonight and just thought of something. My question for anyone else with this system is there a port for the temperature sensors in each of the kettles? The web site doesn't show electric kettles at all and the ports contained in them and a Google search wasn't much help with this either.

As I just ordered the kettles last week I'm thinking if they don't have a port already then I still have time to get them to add one if necessary.

Can anyone shed some light on this issue for me?

 

[Iansir]

Depends what you ordered...my stout boil kettle came with a thermowell, but not all do. Even if you don't have a thermowell you could possibly do some in line temp monitoring depending on your system.

 

[tjr3000]

Hey everyone. I recently ordered 20g Stout MT, HLT, BK for use in a system we're building to be hooked into one of Kal's control panels. Certainly someone else has done this before me.

I was looking at how everything would hook up tonight and just thought of something. My question for anyone else with this system is there a port for the temperature sensors in each of the kettles? The web site doesn't show electric kettles at all and the ports contained in them and a Google search wasn't much help with this either.

As I just ordered the kettles last week I'm thinking if they don't have a port already then I still have time to get them to add one if necessary.

Can anyone shed some light on this issue for me?

I think standard is a thermowell without a thermometer. They emailed me the answer pretty quickly when I asked them, but the basic ports are effectively the same.

 

[Babydom]

Stout kettles have thermowells which are welded in place and whatever probes you will use needs to be ½ NPT.

If you’re planning to copy Kal’s system, you will not using the thermowells on the HLT and MT. Instead you’ll need to take the temp reading from a tee. Read through Kal’s step by step and see what I’m talking about. I went tri-clover tee with tri-clover RTD sensors in the HLT and MT, and I have 2.5 inch NPT ½ RTD sensor for the BK. I’m sure a lot of different configurations can be built.

Bolts and Wroxbrew HBT members both have build threads with tons of information. All of the temp information above came from those threads.

 

[abarker8541]

Where in kansas are you??

 

[orangehero]

Just looking at the website, the thermowell is optional.

 

[Bensiff]

Roadie, it depends on what options you went with. I had mine highly customized and still overlooked a few things. Assuming you are going TC fittings I would highly recommend having a 1.5" TC ferrel added instead of a 1/2 npt thermowell and then use aubers probes that come with the TC fitting. Otherwise if you buy a temp probe it will come with a stainless sheath and that will be inserted into the thermowell which gives two layers of stainless and an air gap between the liquid and the RTD. As it stands, I'm going to have to take apart the auber probe, cut the stainless sheath, and insert the RTD with some thermal compound into the stout tanks thermowell.

Another option to consider is having the electric ports changed to the 2" TC to give you more room to wiggle elements in and out.

One of my favorite changes I made was having the HLT changed to a bottom outlet. I did this to make it easier to drain completely without dealing with a pickup tube. As well it is for aesthetics since doing this meant that kettle has to be skirted like the BK and MLT so it sits the same height of them and doesn't looks like the special ed kettle in the lineup.

Anyway if you just placed the order, email John and ask him if he can make the changes you want as he may not have put the order in to his supplier in china yet and even if he has, he was able to adjust my kettle from 1.5" element ports to 2" ports after he had sent the specs to China.

 

[Roadie]

Depends what you ordered...my stout boil kettle came with a thermowell, but not all do. Even if you don't have a thermowell you could possibly do some in line temp monitoring depending on your system.

I ordered with thermowell and sight glass but don't want probe going to front of kettle and would much prefer it go to the side or back.

 

[Roadie]

Stout kettles have thermowells which are welded in place and whatever probes you will use needs to be ½ NPT.

If you’re planning to copy Kal’s system, you will not using the thermowells on the HLT and MT. Instead you’ll need to take the temp reading from a tee. Read through Kal’s step by step and see what I’m talking about. I went tri-clover tee with tri-clover RTD sensors in the HLT and MT, and I have 2.5 inch NPT ½ RTD sensor for the BK. I’m sure a lot of different configurations can be built.

Bolts and Wroxbrew HBT members both have build threads with tons of information. All of the temp information above came from those threads.

Thanks. I'll have to look at those threads and see what they did. I just want the probes in the back where you don't necessarily see them and they are out of the way.

 

[Roadie]

Where in kansas are you??

Olathe.

 

[Roadie]

Roadie, it depends on what options you went with. I had mine highly customized and still overlooked a few things. Assuming you are going TC fittings I would highly recommend having a 1.5" TC ferrel added instead of a 1/2 npt thermowell and then use aubers probes that come with the TC fitting. Otherwise if you buy a temp probe it will come with a stainless sheath and that will be inserted into the thermowell which gives two layers of stainless and an air gap between the liquid and the RTD. As it stands, I'm going to have to take apart the auber probe, cut the stainless sheath, and insert the RTD with some thermal compound into the stout tanks thermowell.

Another option to consider is having the electric ports changed to the 2" TC to give you more room to wiggle elements in and out.

One of my favorite changes I made was having the HLT changed to a bottom outlet. I did this to make it easier to drain completely without dealing with a pickup tube. As well it is for aesthetics since doing this meant that kettle has to be skirted like the BK and MLT so it sits the same height of them and doesn't looks like the special ed kettle in the lineup.

Anyway if you just placed the order, email John and ask him if he can make the changes you want as he may not have put the order in to his supplier in china yet and even if he has, he was able to adjust my kettle from 1.5" element ports to 2" ports after he had sent the specs to China.

Even though I ordered the thermowell as it came with the sight glass I don't think I'll be really using it but will probably just ignore the thermometer in it. I'm thinking I need some sort of port in the back. Maybe a TC fitting is what we need toward the rear of the kettle.

How often do you take the elements out that the larger port would be a better option?

HLT rides the short bus? That cracked me up! I went with the bottom outlet.

I PM'd John on here and he responded that he will check my order. There is a local place that brews with the setup I'm looking at and I will have to get back there to look at it more closely this week while there is still time to add things. ETA of my stout order is November so think there is still time. Since I took over our basement fridge as a fermenter, Home Depot delivered my freezer yesterday for us to put 6-8 beers on tap in a keezer (only ordered parts for 6 taps right now) and we are getting parts for keezer delivered daily I didn't even tell SWMBO about my stout order and my probably pulling trigger on Kal's control panel stuff this week.

 

[Bensiff]

I ordered with thermowell and sight glass but don't want probe going to front of kettle and would much prefer it go to the side or back.

I had mine changed to the side. That was a mistake because now the thermowell is in the path of the tangential inlet on the BK. at the time of designing I originally wanted it in the back but figured having the thermowell immediately above the heating element may through off the readings. If I did it again I would place the thermowell on the left side of the kettles, not the right.

 

[Bensiff]

Even though I ordered the thermowell as it came with the sight glass I don't think I'll be really using it but will probably just ignore the thermometer in it. I'm thinking I need some sort of port in the back. Maybe a TC fitting is what we need toward the rear of the kettle.

How often do you take the elements out that the larger port would be a better option?

HLT rides the short bus? That cracked me up! I went with the bottom outlet.

I PM'd John on here and he responded that he will check my order. There is a local place that brews with the setup I'm looking at and I will have to get back there to look at it more closely this week while there is still time to add things. ETA of my stout order is November so think there is still time. Since I took over our basement fridge as a fermenter, Home Depot delivered my freezer yesterday for us to put 6-8 beers on tap in a keezer (only ordered parts for 6 taps right now) and we are getting parts for keezer delivered daily I didn't even tell SWMBO about my stout order and my probably pulling trigger on Kal's control panel stuff this week.

I'm still finishing up my stand build, I have a newborn at home home and my job is going to hell so we are now working on moving to facilitate the changes, so that said, progress on finishing my stand has been slow. Sad, the control panel is ready, the kettles have been sitting ready since June, I just have to get the finish work on the stand done. Until then I'm having to buy beer, it's expensive as hell.

You can ask John to remove the thermometer if you are using RTD probes and don't need it. He will credit you the cost of the item. Again, if you are going to use an RTD probe, I highly recommend you change the thermowell port to a TC fitting and then use aubers TC RTD probes.

As I haven't brewed on my kettles I can't tell you how often I will need to remove the elements. However many people scrub them down regularly. Elements open up some when they are fired so the wider port helps make it easier to get them out without damage and also works nicely with brewers hardware element attachment. It's expensive as hell, but its a sturdy part and nicer and safer than JB welding up a plastic box to protect the wiring.

Remember that John sends the specs to the manufacturer in China so if you need to make any changes he needs to contact them. If they have already begun making your kettles it's too late to change. Also it is a huge hassle for John I would imagine, so figure out what you want and get it to him ASAP, he was a good guy to work with so I'm sure he will do his best for you.

You didn't tell your wife? Wow! Take the cost of the kettles and triple it and that will be your final cost (all those stainless fittings add up like you wouldn't believe). My wife would have killed me had I dropped that much money without her knowledge.

 

[Roadie]

You didn't tell your wife? Wow! Take the cost of the kettles and triple it and that will be your final cost (all those stainless fittings add up like you wouldn't believe). My wife would have killed me had I dropped that much money without her knowledge.

Kettles are a little over $1,800 so you're saying fittings are another $3,600?? That's news to me and I wasn't expecting that.

 

[Bensiff]

Kettles are a little over $1,800 so you're saying fittings are another $3,600?? That's news to me and I wasn't expecting that.

The added stainless doesn't triple the cost, it is the box and the rest of the build combined.

I suppose it ultimately gets down to exactly what you want with your system. I decided to build the system as I wanted it (within reason) instead of putting something together that I would be annoyed with and start making changes that would waste a lot of money down the road. For me that meant two things, I wanted continuity and for things to be easy to take apart. That meant everything is TC. So, the water filter and Chuggers got NPT to TC fittings so I don't ever have to deal with threading connections as I switch hoses out while brewing. I have seven (IIRC) hoses that have to be built and since I hate the standard hose clamp I am using Oetiker clamps. I have bought no shortage of 90 degree and straight TC hose barbs, along with ball valves, TC clamps, hose, gaskets, and a few other things to build an inline oxygen/CO2 injection system. I went with stainless Chuggers with the 3/4" inlets, a new stainless CF from Williams (that I need to find a welder to make it TC). Than there is the cost of steel to build the brewstand, I have a mig but I needed to get shielding gas as flux core is a pain to work with for my skill level, plus all the consumables in grinding the welds and prepping the stand for paint. Further, all the nuts, bolts, washers, and hinges on the stand are stainless.

So, long story short, by the time I add the cost of everything that wasn't the kettles or the control box, I would say $1500-1800 is realistic.

As far as the control box internals, the elements, Aubur RTDs, 30 amp GE GFCI, and using automotive paint, that project has easily cost $1500...and the shipping costs of all the parts adds up. The box could be done cheaper; but, I don't like the industrial buttons and lights so I used metal DC illuminated ring lights which required me modifying the Kal design so all switches are DC...which meant a lot of SSRs. As well, auto paint is expensive...so, I figure if one went on the cheap, they could build a box for around $1k. But, if you are dropping a $1000 on a build, why make it ugly and settle for a $5 rattle can finish?

Sorry to be lengthy; but, I figure you would appreciate some some reality. The incidentals of building a brewery are huge, don't let anyone tell you differently. Figure on this costing you $5K+ by the time you brew your first batch and accept that you will no longer ever be able to tell your wife that homebrewing is actually saving you money .

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I'm in the middle of a very similar build, 20g Stout tanks with a kal like panel, though not identical. I would say I'm in it for 3200 by the end, but I already had a few components and both pumps.

kettles get delivered in a few weeks. ..

 

[Roadie]

The added stainless doesn't triple the cost, it is the box and the rest of the build combined.

That makes more sense to me. I don't have a brew stand per se and will be getting a SS food prep type table with a shelf underneath. Also getting a SS sink, same pumps as you, dubba diesel plate chiller, kal control panel and of course nice hoses/misc fittings and other misc "stuff". Bought a new RO system yesterday w/20 gallon holding tank. I figure I'll be into everything approximately $6k -7k so 3x the kettle cost is about right.

I had Stout remove the front thermowell/thermometer and put a port for temp probe at about the 10 o'clock position in all 3 kettles which will be TC to kettle. That pushed the ETA of kettles to December... Christmas present!

Also, all of my keezer parts have now been delivered so there was another $1.7k or so. It all adds up quickly!

 

[Roadie]

I'm in the middle of a very similar build, 20g Stout tanks with a kal like panel, though not identical. I would say I'm in it for 3200 by the end, but I already had a few components and both pumps.

kettles get delivered in a few weeks. ..

$3.2k is a bargain, well done. Unfortunately I'll be in for twice that. You must have ordered those kettles a while ago to be getting them in 3 weeks. Exciting!

 

[Roadie]

My kettles came in last month as did my Kal control panel. Though we have some final things to do before the brewery is finished, my costs have skyrocketed though we went with nice stuff all the way around.

For anyone looking at Stout kettles looking for some advice here is what I did and the one thing I wish I could have done differently.

On my Stout order I went with 20 gallon kettles with a thermowell in the BK and HLT for the electric elements. They put that in the back at the 12 o'clock position which was fine with me. However, the tri-clamp coupling they weld to the outside of the kettle sticks out about an inch so when inserting your element in that port the base of the element is NOT flush with the inside of the kettle. This results in two things, one, there is a tunnel where hop matter can hide out and two, on my ripple elements the end of the element where it folds back toward the base comes within a short hair of touching the kettle wall. I'm not a fan of either of these and had I known in advance about that would have asked that a shorter coupling be utilized if possible so the element would be further inside the kettle.

I also had the thermowell at the 6 o'clock position (directly in front) where the dial thermometer would normally go deleted so there is nothing there for a hose to get hung up on, especially when I would not have paid attention to that thermometer since I have temperature probes in all kettles that hook into Kal's panel and also a Therma-K-Plus device (from the makers of thermapen) to check the accuracy of the probes. A port for the temperature probes was put into each kettle at the 10 o'clock position. It is higher in the kettle than the element and does not interfere with it at all.

I went with the Stout Herms coil whose diameter is kind of small compared to others that I have read about. If I were ordering again I would probably do more research on the larger diameter Herms coils and then make a decision which way to go on that.

The fit and finish of the Stout kettles is very good and the welds look great to my eye. If will probably be another few weeks until we are able to water test them but I don't anticipate a problem. The customizability of the kettles and willingness to work with you on exactly what you want makes this the company to go with and I never regret having them build these for me.

 

[Docbruw]

We need some eye candy, you know brew porn. Lets see these shiny kettles!

 

[Roadie]

We need some eye candy, you know brew porn. Lets see these shiny kettles!

Well you seen one...

 

[iijakii]

hnnnnnggg

 

[Docbruw]

I see what you mean. Those tri-clovers do seem to stick out kind of far.

 

[Roadie]

I see what you mean. Those tri-clovers do seem to stick out kind of far.

This is the element port.

 

[Ttownbrewer]

Roadie- I read on your other page that you went with Bobby's element TC adapters. How long are those?

I got the adapters from ebrewsupply and they stick out 6" to the cord grip from the kettle wall.


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[Roadie]

With the 1" couplings on the kettles I'm at 5.5".



Here is a shot if inside the boil kettle. You can see the element folds all the way back and is ever so close to touching the kettle wall.

 

[Woodbrews]

N n.n


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[sandyeggoxj]

Looking good. I just got word from Stout that my 30 gallon kettles are getting set to ship here shortly. I am hoping to see them by the end of the month! Realistically it will be early march.

How long did it take to get your kettles once they shipped? Did they come truck freight or ups/fedex ground?

 

[Roadie]

Looking good. I just got word from Stout that my 30 gallon kettles are getting set to ship here shortly. I am hoping to see them by the end of the month! Realistically it will be early march.

How long did it take to get your kettles once they shipped? Did they come truck freight or ups/fedex ground?

I think 4 days here to KC from when they said they shipped. Funny but I forget how they shipped since I've gotten so many shipments lately but "think" it was FedEx. Going to do my first leak test this weekend.


Almost Famous Brewing Company

 

[Bensiff]

Looking good. I just got word from Stout that my 30 gallon kettles are getting set to ship here shortly. I am hoping to see them by the end of the month! Realistically it will be early march.

How long did it take to get your kettles once they shipped? Did they come truck freight or ups/fedex ground?

2 hour drive in my buddies Subaru wrx because for some strange reason my larger cars trunk had too small an I opening to fit the kettle. Then a day spent brew pub hopping around Portland followed by a 2 hour drive back north. That's how long it took .


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[BadWolfBrewing]

Mine came FedEx freight. First time I've ever had a pallet delivered to me, which was awesome. The next hour was a flurry of cardboard and bubble wrap...

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[BadWolfBrewing]

Mine came FedEx freight. First time I've ever had a pallet delivered to me, which was awesome. The next hour was a flurry of cardboard and bubble wrap...

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[November]

I placed an order with Stout last night. I ended up customizing it, so it looks like I have a nerve wracking four months to wait. I went with the bk thermowell changed to TC and put on the left side, a bottom drain HLT like the MLT, and HERMS ports but no coil. I will have a longer/larger diameter coil frabicated for it.

I guess the wait gives me time to build the stand and panel.

 

[Roadie]

I placed an order with Stout last night. I ended up customizing it, so it looks like I have a nerve wracking four months to wait. I went with the bk thermowell changed to TC and put on the left side, a bottom drain HLT like the MLT, and HERMS ports but no coil. I will have a longer/larger diameter coil frabicated for it.



I guess the wait gives me time to build the stand and panel.

Yep at least 4 months. If I did it over would probably go with a larger HERMS coil so good move. I'd also have tried to get shorter TC connectors for heating element.


Almost Famous Brewing Company

 

[Bensiff]

Looking good. I just got word from Stout that my 30 gallon kettles are getting set to ship here shortly. I am hoping to see them by the end of the month! Realistically it will be early march.

How long did it take to get your kettles once they shipped? Did they come truck freight or ups/fedex ground?

2 hour drive in my buddies Subaru wrx because for some strange reason my larger cars trunk had too small an I opening to fit the kettle. Then a day spent brew pub hopping around Portland followed by a 2 hour drive back north. That's how long it took .


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