Stout: Black Patent vs unmalted Black barley

[stevedasleeve]

Tired of reading the differences and not getting it - just like hop descriptions which invariably seem to have no basis in reality for me - so I brewed my best American Stout recipe with Roasted Black barley (Muntons) yesterday and with Black Patent (Simpsons) today! In three or four weeks I'll have a definitive answer to the never ending "what's the difference between Black barley and Black Patent (in a stout?)" question...

Steve da Sleeve

 

[JRems]

The difference is one is malted the other is not. Muntons roasted barley is made from unmalted barley. Plack patent is made from malted barley.

 

[stevedasleeve]

Uh.. yea I got that. Thanks man!

 

[BigEd]

Tired of reading the differences and not getting it - just like hop descriptions which invariably seem to have no basis in reality for me - so I brewed my best American Stout recipe with Roasted Black barley (Muntons) yesterday and with Black Patent (Simpsons) today! In three or four weeks I'll have a definitive answer to the never ending "what's the difference between Black barley and Black Patent (in a stout?)" question...

Steve da Sleeve

Well some would say that the beer with black patent would be a porter, not a stout. The use of roasted unmalted barley as the dark grain is one of the things that defines a stout although the dividing line between the two styles is not a sharply distinct one. As black patent malt has a pretty acrid, almost ashen flavor it is often used in smaller quantities than you might use roasted barley typically in combination with other roasted grains as a color booster.

 

[TNGabe]

Well some would say that the beer with black patent would be a porter, not a stout. The use of roasted unmalted barley as the dark grain is one of the things that defines a stout although the dividing line between the two styles is not a sharply distinct one.

I used to believe this, but it turns out not to be true. Check out shut up about barclay perkins for great research on historical beer styles.

OP - there's a lot of difference in both roasted barley and black malt from different maltsters as well.

 

[kingwood-kid]

Black Patent was used historically in England after 1819 to comply with laws that forbade any non-malted grains. Once the laws were changed in 1880, brewers began to switch to roasted barley, which was cheaper. I'm sure they taste different, but the idea that Porters use one and Stouts use the other is pretty silly to me, especially given that "Stout" was originally a marketing term used to describe Porter.

 

[BigEd]

Black Patent was used historically in England after 1819 to comply with laws that forbade any non-malted grains. Once the laws were changed in 1880, brewers began to switch to roasted barley, which was cheaper. I'm sure they taste different, but the idea that Porters use one and Stouts use the other is pretty silly to me, especially given that "Stout" was originally a marketing term used to describe Porter.

Yes, the term stout was originally used as an adjective describing porter. As I posted above "some would say" that the use of the two grains may determine the label of the beer and the distinction between them is blurred not sharp.

 

[stevedasleeve]

I used Muntons black unmalted barley in one and Simpsons black (patent) malt in the other. Just kegged the black patent one and flat it does indeed have more of a porter taste. Once carbonated I'll report again. I am more of a stout fan, not so much a porter fan so I'll likely go back to unmalted black roasted barley but this might be pretty good.

I'll post the recipe if anyone is interested.

Steve da sleeve

 

[stevedasleeve]

Tastes good! More porter than stout - smooth roast without a bite. I'm brewing this again as a less stoutly stout for the beer gatherings I do every couple of months where inevitably I get folks who prefer malt to hops and don't like stout so much...!

My preference is a dry American stout with unmalted black barley but this is rather a nice change, maybe a cross between an American stout and a robust porter.

Fwiw and ymmv etc and wtf

Steve da sleeve

 

[14thstreet]

Thanks for sharing Steve. I'd like to see your recipe as well as a tasting in a few weeks if it lasts that long. I'm brewing an old ale and I've used 4oz of Black Patent in 5 gallons and am wondering if a switch to roasted barley is what I want. Right now at 5 weeks from brewday the black patent is a tad bit ashy/burnt. I think it accentuates the dryness of the beer. Not excessive but I was hoping it would bring out the dark fruit aspects in the rest of my ingredients. That might happen as she ages thought. I've heard roasted barley can be sweet in addition to the roast but that's yet to be decided.

 

[stevedasleeve]

Here you go:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/117551/120-heve-s-black-ale

Steve