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Stone Cali-Belgique clone

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bigbeergeek

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It's a decent Belgian IPA, I prefer the Raging Bitch. There's a whole Can You Brew It episode devoted to that beer.
 
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It's a decent Belgian IPA, I prefer the Raging Bitch. There's a whole Can You Brew It episode devoted to that beer.
I am a ag brewer but always learning, links to video? And truely I didnt know Belgi IPA was a catagory lol
 

chickypad

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It's the stone IPA recipe with a Belgian yeast strain. There are a bunch of threads debating which one, I believe consensus was it was one of WL strains that they used on another beer. Search and you should be able to find it.

Edit: actually, check out the similar threads at the bottom of this page
 
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Ostomo517

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It's the stone IPA recipe with a Belgian yeast strain. There are a bunch of threads debating which one, I believe consensus was it was one of WL strains that they used on another beer. Search and you should be able to find it.

Edit: actually, check out the similar threads at the bottom of this page
Sweeeeet! Thanks! Im itchin to get back home screw vacation I wanna brew!!!!!!!
 

daksin

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Hang on, I gotcha! It's EXACTLY the same grist as Stone IPA, fermented with WLP570.

You can read the whole story right from the horses's mouth (head brewer at stone) right here:

http://blog.stonebrew.com/index.php/cali-belgique-the-untold-story/

Where he says they made the first cali-belgique just to make up some yeast for vertical Epic 08.08.08, which uses WLP570 as you can see here:

http://www.stonebrew.com/epic/Wca256c660276b.htm

The first post also mentions that instead of centennial late hops (in the IPA) cali-belgique uses chinook. I've taken the best clone recipe and made the substitutions for you here:

Single infusion 60 minutes at 153 degrees.

10.5# Pale
1# Munich
1# Crystal 20L

1 oz. Warrior 60 minutes
1 oz. Chinook 15 minutes
1 oz. Chinook 5 minutes

WLP090 or WLP007

O.G. 1.066
F.G. 1.010

Dry Hop with 1 oz. Chinook

That should get you about as close as humanly possible. Good luck!
 
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Ostomo517

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Hang on, I gotcha! It's EXACTLY the same grist as Stone IPA, fermented with WLP570.

You can read the whole story right from the horses's mouth (head brewer at stone) right here:

http://blog.stonebrew.com/index.php/cali-belgique-the-untold-story/

Where he says they made the first cali-belgique just to make up some yeast for vertical Epic 08.08.08, which uses WLP570 as you can see here:

http://www.stonebrew.com/epic/Wca256c660276b.htm

The first post also mentions that instead of centennial late hops (in the IPA) cali-belgique uses chinook. I've taken the best clone recipe and made the substitutions for you here:

Single infusion 60 minutes at 153 degrees.

10.5# Pale
1# Munich
1# Crystal 20L

1 oz. Warrior 60 minutes
1 oz. Chinook 15 minutes
1 oz. Chinook 5 minutes

WLP090 or WLP007

O.G. 1.066
F.G. 1.010

Dry Hop with 1 oz. Chinook

That should get you about as close as humanly possible. Good luck!
Very nice! Thanks a ton!! Its awesome how most here are so eager to help a fellow brewer out figuring stuff out :mug:
 

chickypad

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This has the IPA recipe in 2008 addition of BYO direct from stone. Pretty close to the one above but no Munich and includes Centennial. They use Columbus to bitter now, so you could swap out the 90 minute additions for an equivalent edition of Columbus.

Edit: ah, I see from daksin's post that they don't use centennial in the cali-belgie
 

fosaisu

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Any thoughts on fermentation temp? The BYO article with the Stone IPA clone suggests 68° F, but would the Belgian yeast dictate different fermentation temps?
 

fosaisu

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I brewed an extract version based on the Stone BYO article recipe plus the notes daksin posted here (mainly for changes to hop schedule that Stone has evidently made over time). It's delicious, nice hop bitterness with fruity overtones from the yeast. This is one I'll definitely brew again. Here's the recipe I used:

STONE CALI BELGIQUE CLONE - PARTIAL MASH - 5 GALLONS

Malt (add 3/4 at flameout for lighter color):
7.9 lb Pilsner LME

Partial Mash Grains (45 mins in 2.5 quarts water @ 149° F):
1 lb 2-row Pale Malt
14 oz Crystal Malt (15 °L)

Hops:
Warrior 1 oz @ 60 min
Chinook 1 oz @ 15 min
Chinook 1 oz @ 5 min
Chinook 1 oz dry hop

Yeast: Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale [alt. is WLP570, both are evidently from same Duvel strain]

Ferment at 68° F. Dry hop for 3-5 days.
 

tims5377

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STONE CALI BELGIQUE CLONE - EXTRACT - 5 GALLONS

Malt (add 3/4 at flameout for lighter color):
7.9 lb Pilsner LME

Steeping Grains (45 mins in 2.5 quarts water @ 149° F):
1 lb 2-row Pale Malt
14 oz Crystal Malt (15 °L)

Hops:
Warrior 1 oz @ 60 min
Chinook 1 oz @ 15 min
Chinook 1 oz @ 5 min
Chinook 1 oz dry hop

Yeast: WLP570 / Wyeast 1388 (both Duvel strain)

Ferment at 68° F. Dry hop for 3-5 days.
Can you break this down a wee bit more for me? I would really like to make this but am a bit of a newb.
 

fosaisu

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Can you break this down a wee bit more for me? I would really like to make this but am a bit of a newb.
Sure, are there specific questions you've got? Happy to answer them.

One change I'd make is that I describe "steeping" grains, but what I did was really a "mash" (which is a good thing, as I'll explain). I've since learned more about the difference b/w "steeping" and "mashing" -- they're very similar, "mashing" is just "steeping" with lower temps and a lower grain/water ratios than you would generally use with "steeping". Mashing is necessary with certain types of grains (2 Row Pale Malt among them) to extract the sugars you want for brewing. I've fixed the heading in my earlier post.

You want the temp to be 149° F after you add your grains. To hit that, you'd actually need to heat the 2.5 qts water up a bit higher (to 164° F) so that when you add your room-temp grains, the temp drops to ~ 149° F. I figured that out using this awesome mash calculator (it's a bit technical but bookmark it, you'll use it later).

Sorry if the above sounds intimidating -- if you've ever brewed using "steeping" grains this is really the same thing, just using less water and at a lower temp. And you can say you did a "partial mash brew", which sounds much more sophisticated than an "extract brew"!
 

tims5377

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Wow, after spending lots of time on car forums recently the helpfulness is astounding! Usually I would be chastised for an ambiguous question like that and not cheerfully answered!

Anyways, thanks!

What do you mean by "add 3/4 at flameout for lighter color"? Is this necessary for the flavor of the beer or just the color?
 

fosaisu

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Wow, after spending lots of time on car forums recently the helpfulness is astounding! Usually I would be chastised for an ambiguous question like that and not cheerfully answered!

Anyways, thanks!

What do you mean by "add 3/4 at flameout for lighter color"? Is this necessary for the flavor of the beer or just the color?
Sounds like you've made the wise transition to beer forums!

As for the "flameout addition", that really is just a technique to get lighter colored extract beers. Basically, you add a portion (I usually do 1/4) at the start of your boil, and then the rest either late in the boil or after you turn off the heat ("flameout"). Word is the wort's still hot enough then to pasteurize the extract, and in my experience it definitely makes for much lighter colored beer. But I haven't heard any theories that it radically changes the flavor, so if you don't care about the color you can just toss all of the extract in up front.

One more thought re: mashing the grains, you'll also want to "sparge" (essentially a hot rinse to extract remaining sugars/flavor) them after your done with the 45 minute mash. Assuming you're mashing in a different pot from your brew pot, the easiest way I think is to fill your brew pot to your usual boil volume (minus two quarts that you'll get from the mash), bring it to ~170F, kill the heat and then just dunk the grain bag in the brew kettle for a few mins after you remove it from the mash (I also wring it out to extract maximum goodies, though there are a variety of opinions on that like everything else). After that, you just add the mash water to the brew kettle and carry on with your brew as usual.

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy this beer as much as I have!
 

Lumpyyyyy

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I followed this recipe:

Single infusion 60 minutes at 153 degrees.

10.5# Pale
1# Munich
1# Crystal 20L

1 oz. Warrior 60 minutes
1 oz. Chinook 15 minutes
1 oz. Chinook 5 minutes

O.G. 1.066
F.G. 1.010

Dry Hop with 1 oz. Chinook

The only tweak I made was using the Trappist High Gravity Yeast from Wyeast because it was the only near replacement my LHBS had. It probably came out as the 2nd best beer I've ever made.
 

rightcheek86

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I brewed an extract version based on the Stone BYO article recipe plus the notes daksin posted here (mainly for changes to hop schedule that Stone has evidently made over time). It's delicious, nice hop bitterness with fruity overtones from the yeast. This is one I'll definitely brew again. Here's the recipe I used:

STONE CALI BELGIQUE CLONE - PARTIAL MASH - 5 GALLONS

Malt (add 3/4 at flameout for lighter color):
7.9 lb Pilsner LME

Partial Mash Grains (45 mins in 2.5 quarts water @ 149° F):
1 lb 2-row Pale Malt
14 oz Crystal Malt (15 °L)

Hops:
Warrior 1 oz @ 60 min
Chinook 1 oz @ 15 min
Chinook 1 oz @ 5 min
Chinook 1 oz dry hop

Yeast: Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale [alt. is WLP570, both are evidently from same Duvel strain]

Ferment at 68° F. Dry hop for 3-5 days.

Really interesting stuff in this thread. Thank you for your help in trying to hone in this awesome beer.

I have a question as a beginning brewer as well. If I only have one 5 gallon brew pot is it even worth me attempting this recipe considering the partial mash itself would require a second pot or mash tun? From the little I know I believe using 2-row and others are pretty pointless unless you are doing a partial mash.

I would love to make this beer, but think I need to get more equipment to do it.

If I simply steeped the grains in a sock at 149degrees for 45 minutes and then discarded the grains and add the malt and bring to boil will it arrive at similar results? Or should I wait to start making more complex beer for when I have more complex equipment?
 

fosaisu

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rightcheek86 said:
Really interesting stuff in this thread. Thank you for your help in trying to hone in this awesome beer. I have a question as a beginning brewer as well. If I only have one 5 gallon brew pot is it even worth me attempting this recipe considering the partial mash itself would require a second pot or mash tun? From the little I know I believe using 2-row and others are pretty pointless unless you are doing a partial mash. I would love to make this beer, but think I need to get more equipment to do it. If I simply steeped the grains in a sock at 149degrees for 45 minutes and then discarded the grains and add the malt and bring to boil will it arrive at similar results? Or should I wait to start making more complex beer for when I have more complex equipment?
You can definitely do this without a second large pot. But you don't want to just steep the grains in your full boil volume. Instead:

Option 1: if you have a 1.5 or 2 gallon pot in your kitchen (like one you'd cook spaghetti in) use that to do the partial mash. You only need 2.5 qts water so the pot doesn't need to be huge. That's how I did mine, and I think you're probably better off mashing in a smaller pot for heat retention purposes (throw a blanket or towel over the pot to help it retain heat). Once you're done mashing you just add the wort to your brew pot, top off to your normal boil volume, and carry on (of course if you want to save time while you are mashing you could bring water in your brew pot up to a boil, another benefit of using two vessels).

Option 2: if all you've got to work with is the 5 gallon pot, just do the partial mash in that (still using only the 2.5 qts water). When done mashing you can top off to your normal boil volume and carry on.

Either way you'll want to shoot for a 149 degree mash temp after the grains are added, which means the water needs to be a bit hotter than 149 before you add the grains. Here's a link to a calc. to show you want temp you'll want to use (in this case it recommends 164 degree water assuming your grains are at 70 degrees): http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml
 

rightcheek86

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You can definitely do this without a second large pot. But you don't want to just steep the grains in your full boil volume. Instead:

Option 1: if you have a 1.5 or 2 gallon pot in your kitchen (like one you'd cook spaghetti in) use that to do the partial mash. You only need 2.5 qts water so the pot doesn't need to be huge. That's how I did mine, and I think you're probably better off mashing in a smaller pot for heat retention purposes (throw a blanket or towel over the pot to help it retain heat). Once you're done mashing you just add the wort to your brew pot, top off to your normal boil volume, and carry on (of course if you want to save time while you are mashing you could bring water in your brew pot up to a boil, another be fit of using two vessels).

Option 2: if all you've got to work with is the 5 gallon pot, just do the partial mash in that (still using only the 2.5 qts water). When done mashing to. Can top off to your normal boil volume and carry on.

Either way you'll want to shoot for a 149 degree mash temp after the grains are added, which means the water needs to be a bit hotter than 149 before you add the grains. I'll try to gag a link to a temp calculator later today.
Awesome. I look forward to dipping my toes a bit into the partial mash. Thanks for the pointers :mug:
 

fosaisu

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dbals

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I know I'm reviving a dead thread but one I've been interested in for sometime. Was at Stone two weeks ago and asked specifically which yeast for Cali-. The tour guide stepped into the lab, came out and said "WYeast French Saison 3711" also was told it is there IPA recipe.

Dan
 

NewJersey

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my local store doesnt carry wyeast. for wl would everyone still agree on 570 or would 530 produce similar results?
this beer has been on my mind again!!
 

Shenanigans

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I've never had a Cali Belgique but want to brew one anyway :p

Been looking around the internet for a thread where someone wanted to try the 3711. Has anyone here brewed it with this or the Belle Saison?
I reckon you would have to lower the pounds of malt to keep it under 7% because the 2 times I have used Bell Saison the beer finished at 1.002 and 1.004 and both had a decent amout of crystal in it.

Also on their website it says they use magnum, centennial and chinook.
77 IBUs and 6.9% or is this old information?

So Wlp570 or Belle Saison? I have both here.
 

Shenanigans

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Belle Saison is closer to what they use Wyeast 3711
Thanks. :mug:

As I wrote above I have used this yeast a few times before and it would be impossible to get it to finish above 1.005 with this grain bill.
So I'll have to shoot for the 1.055 to 1.060 range to keep it under 7%.
I also need to decide on the hops. I heard they now use Columbus for bittering and I agree on Chinook for dry hopping. So I'll start there. I just need to decide if all the aroma/flavour additions are indeed Chinook or if there is some Centennial somewhere in there.

:drunk:
 

Shenanigans

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Still haven't brewed this.
Anyone with something to add?
Already brewed it with Bell Saison or 3711?

What OG did you go for?

I brewed for the 3rd time with Bell Saison and a grain bill not any less complicated than this and still got an FG 1.000 so I would need to go lower than the other recipes posted on here to get it to finish under 7%.
Should I be mashing really high?
Also what temperature for fermentation?

Thanks!

:tank:
 

Shenanigans

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Still haven't brewed this.
Anyone with something to add?
Already brewed it with Bell Saison or 3711?

What OG did you go for?

I brewed for the 3rd time with Bell Saison and a grain bill not any less complicated than this and still got an FG 1.000 so I would need to go lower than the other recipes posted on here to get it to finish under 7%.
Should I be mashing really high?
Also what temperature for fermentation?

Thanks!

:tank:
No replies so I'm going to have to try this myself :)

Here's what I put in Beersmith
It's in metric because it's what we use here and I'm too lazy to convert.

67% efficiency

5.30 kg Pale Ale (6.5 EBC) Grain 1 91.4 %
0.50 kg Carabelge (32.5 EBC) Grain 2 8.6 %
30.00 g Hallertau Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 49.3 IBUs
30.00 g Centennial [9.70 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 4 17.0 IBUs
30.00 g Chinook [11.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 5 7.9 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belle Saison (Lallemand/Danstar #-) Yeast 6 -
35.00 g Chinook [11.20 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 7 0.0 IBUs

Est Original Gravity: 1.057 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.003 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.0 %
Bitterness: 74.2 IBUs
Est Color: 14.3 EBC

Sounds like a hoppy Saison actually.
Will probably brew it at the end of June so hopefully it will be ready for late Summer/Early Autumn.

Will report back when it's ready.

:mug:
 

55x11

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I am surprised at WY 3711 because I thought stone gets most of their yeasts from White labs.
 

Shenanigans

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I still didn't brew this as I've been put off by the mixed reviews of this beer. Even tough it has 97% on rate beer the first few pages of reviews are not that positive. Anyway I have a pack of Belle Saison that is almost out of date so I'm going to brew this on the weekend. In about a month I should have something to report back :tank:
 

Shenanigans

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Malt is milled and hops are weighed. Everything ready for brewing tomorrow :D
Let's see how it turns out ;)
 

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Well the brew day went very good. Did a BIAB with a new system and just had to add an extra litre of water than calculated during the boil to hit my numbers perfectly. The Belle Saison had already taken off when I checked it early the next morning. Started at about 20oC and ramped it up to 26oC over the first 3 days. I will leave it there for the rest of the fermentation. I will add the Chinook dry hops on Sunday (day 7) and hopefully find time to bottle it a week later. I'll report back on Sunday with the current SG and taste.
Looking forward to drinking the final beer in 3 weeks or so.
:)
 

Shenanigans

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So I added the dry hops yesterday. The gravity reading was 1.003 and I could taste the yeast a lot more than the hops. However that's ok as that generally changes when it's cold crashed and carbed. So, so far so good. ;)
Plus if it is now finished at 1.003 it's exactly what I calculated to get it to about 7% Alc. like the original.
 

ColbyJack

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Awesome work! Cali-Belgique is the beer I chose to fill a growler at Stone brewery after trying everything they had on tap. Love this beer. Wish it were more commonly found. Let us know your thoughts. What temp did you mash at? Mash out?
 

Shenanigans

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Awesome work! Cali-Belgique is the beer I chose to fill a growler at Stone brewery after trying everything they had on tap. Love this beer. Wish it were more commonly found. Let us know your thoughts. What temp did you mash at? Mash out?
I mashed high at 155 not that it makes much different to this yeast :)
I do BIAB so I didn't exactly do a mash out just took the bag out of the kettle and started the boil when I rinsed the grain bag in another bucket with water at about 170. Then added this to the kettle too.

I never had Cali-Belgique as it's not readily available over here in Europe yet even though Stone have started brewing out of Berlin now. I just tried the Arrogant Bastard and IPA until now. The IPA was good but the AB wasn't anything special for me.

Hopefully soon I'll find a Cali-Belgique somewhere to compare to this brew. It was actually just a beer I came across when looking for a Belgian IPA recipe. So thought I'd give it a try. :fro:
 

Shenanigans

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So it finished at 1.002 which is 7.2 instead of 7% but I can live with that.
I will bottle it tomorrow but was wondering how many volumes of CO2 I should aim for.

Is the original highly carbed like a strong Belgain ale or just a normal 2.3 to 2.5 for an IPA?

I'm going to aim for 2.4 hopefully that is correct.
 

catdaddy66

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So it finished at 1.002 which is 7.2 instead of 7% but I can live with that.
I will bottle it tomorrow but was wondering how many volumes of CO2 I should aim for.

Is the original highly carbed like a strong Belgain ale or just a normal 2.3 to 2.5 for an IPA?

I'm going to aim for 2.4 hopefully that is correct.
I actually undercarb my beers slightly so I can pour down the center of my glass as they want you to do. You should be good with that much.
 

ColbyJack

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As a point of reference, I do not recall this beer being over carbed at the brewery. Fingers crossed your brew is delicious!!!
 

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