Still not enough hop aroma

[logdrum]

I'm on a quest to get that big juicy hop aroma so many great commercial IPAs have. Here's what I did on my last 5 gal batch:
7.5# 2row
7.5# pale
.75 Vienna
.75 40L
.25 wheat, and enough acid malt to get the pH to 5.4

1.25 Mosaic, 1 Cascade FWH
.75 Columbus 60
1 Mosaic 10
1 Mosaic, 1 Cascade whirlpool hop stand 30 minutes
1 oz each of Mosaic, Cascade, Columbus & Centennial DH for 7 days, in a cornie keg, at 68*F
(All pellet, all 2012, all stored in vacuum packs in freezer)
Appropriate starter of WLP007

It's a good tasting beer, but still not like some of the IPAs I've had on draft lately. Is 10 oz of hops still not enough? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[Ryfi]

I have been hopping my ipas as follows and have been getting great aroma. 60/15/5/30 min hop stand/dry hop. I usually go light on bittering 25%-50% of ibus coming from the 60 min. My last IPA had 10oz iirc.

 

[logdrum]

I have been hopping my ipas as follows and have been getting great aroma. 60/15/5/30 min hop stand/dry hop. I usually go light on bittering 25%-50% of ibus coming from the 60 min. My last IPA had 10oz iirc.

Do you recall how much for the dry hop?

 

[tagz]

If you have the ability to cold crash, try dryhopping loose in the primary, crash it out, transfer to keg, add dryhop to keg and keep at serving temps for duration. Loose vs bag and the keg hop addition might help. I've also ditched all late boil additions in favor of all whirlpool. So, you might move that 10 minute mosaic to the hopstand. Also, if you are tossing your whirlpool addition in at flameout you could try dropping to 180 or lower to minimize the loss of oils.

 

[Ryfi]

2.5oz hop stand and 2.5oz dry hop

 

[logdrum]

Thanks for the replies, I'm going to incorporate these into my next batch (IIPA). Tagz-are you using pellet or leaf in the serving keg?

 

[billl]

I know everyone want to FWH and hopstand everything, but.....

For me, a base recipe of 1oz bittering, 4 oz in the 15-0 range and 3-4 oz dry hopping (after the yeast starts to drop) exceeds 99% of commercial IPA's for hop flavor and aroma. I'd start there and see what you think before devoting a ton of expensive hops to subtle techniques.

Also, you might reconsider the grain bill and make sure you are mashing low (148ish). Simple is usually better than complex for IPA's. Base malt plus a touch of crystal or caramunich or munich will let the hops shine. 6 malts is about 4 too many in my book.

 

[heywatchthis]

Are you adjusting the SO4 and Cl amounts in your brewing water? I wasn't able to get that bright hoppy aroma/flavor until I started treating my water with gypsum and CaCl. I target somewhere around 170 ppm SO4 and around 70 ppm Cl. Since you're adjusting your water for pH, it seems like you're comfortable with water adjustment.

I would also recommend increasing the late addition hops. The dry hop amount looks good, but only 3 ounces after 15 seems low to me.

 

[EineProsit]

two things I can think of that may be causing your issues.
1 are your hops fresh and 2 are you bagging

 

[stevedasleeve]

Big hop aroma for me is somewhat separate from boil additions. I'll dry hop 2-3 oz pellets in primary for 5-7 days, then add 1-2 oz un bagged whole cones to the keg. Setting the keg aside at 36-42 f for a few weeks the aroma blossoms into wonderfulness!

That being said my favorite current recipes are all hopbursted, 20-15-5-0 additions of high alpha west coast hops, 1.060-65, 60-70 IBUs, usually 6 oz or so in the boil.

Steve da sleeve

 

[logdrum]

Are you adjusting the SO4 and Cl amounts in your brewing water? I wasn't able to get that bright hoppy aroma/flavor until I started treating my water with gypsum and CaCl. I target somewhere around 170 ppm SO4 and around 70 ppm Cl. Since you're adjusting your water for pH, it seems like you're comfortable with water adjustment. I would also recommend increasing the late addition hops. The dry hop amount looks good, but only 3 ounces after 15 seems low to me.

I do adjust the water using bru'n water spreadsheets. This one was 102 SO4 & 52 CL based on the Amber Bitter profile. The hop crispness is there, I could bump up my additions, what profile are you shooting for?

 

[logdrum]

two things I can think of that may be causing your issues. 1 are your hops fresh and 2 are you bagging

"(All pellet, all 2012, all stored in vacuum packs in freezer)"
I use a stainless cylindrical hop screen.

 

[jeremy0209]

I've heard and read that, if you can cold crash before dry hopping, you will get better aroma because the hop oils bind to suspended yeast cells which, when chilled, drop out of suspension taking your aroma with it. I have a Tasty's Session Pale Ale that's 9 days in primary and, starting tomorrow, I'm going to cold crash for a week to get as much yeast as possible to drop before I add the dry hops. I've also read that fining with gelatin before dry hopping works wonders also. The common theme seems to be "get as much yeast as possible out of the beer before you dry hop". Sounds like we're on a quest for the same thing...

 

[logdrum]

Looking forward to implementing these refinements.

 

[peterj]

That seems like a lot of bittering hops. I calculated somewhere around 140 IBU from your FWH and 60 minute additions. Seems like a waste to me. What's the OG on this? I would move some of those to the hop stand.

 

[logdrum]

That seems like a lot of bittering hops. I calculated somewhere around 140 IBU from your FWH and 60 minute additions. Seems like a waste to me. What's the OG on this? I would move some of those to the hop stand.

1.073, 81 IBUs using 20 min as FWH contribution. If anything it's not quite bitter enough, definitely not enough aroma either. I agree the FWH don't add enough, at least in this instance, too smooth.

 

[peterj]

1.073, 81 IBUs using 20 min as FWH contribution. If anything it's not quite bitter enough, definitely not enough aroma either. I agree the FWH don't add enough, at least in this instance, too smooth.

Oh yeah, I always calculate FWH as 60 minute additions because they contribute the same amount of IBUs as a bittering addition but it's supposed to be smoother and not as harsh. Also from what I've read they don't actually contribute aroma, they supposedly enhance your later aroma addtions. I never really do FWH anymore though because I never found these claims to be true (or at least very noticeable) in my beers.

So maybe you're just maxing out your IBUs (which happens around 80-100 IBU I think) and maybe the FWH is just making it too smooth like you said.

 

[tagz]

Thanks for the replies, I'm going to incorporate these into my next batch (IIPA). Tagz-are you using pellet or leaf in the serving keg?

I use pellets in a large stainless steel tea ball. You won't start tasting the keg hops for the first few days, but it will keep the flavor bright for the duration of the keg. Also, if you use a tea ball don't fill it more than half full, the pellets will expand too much and you won't get enough contact area. Good luck!