Step Mashing LME? (German Brown Ale)

[The Hansa]

While brewing a 4.5 gallon batch the other day, I step mashed 9lbs of Munich LME with an addition of 2 pounds of caramel specialty malt and 1/2 pound of black malt. I did this to do away with a decoction while still keeping somewhat true to the step mashing that was called for. However, after finishing the brew day, I realized that there is no information on this sort of thing and that I did not do my research beforehand. I am not that concerned about this because the Wort tasted good, the O.G. came out at 1.095 (Its most likely the specialty grain that created this) and it is fermenting rapidly with White Labs German Ale Yeast.

My question is whether or not this was a good idea and if on the off chance it increased both my efficiency and my O.G.

I am rather new to brewing and everything at this stage is even more of a learning experience. Any advice is welcome.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Step mashing is used to dial in a specific fermentability profile through activating or deactivating enzymes that break down starches into sugars during the mash. LME is already mashed and has no enzymatic (diastatic) power. Furthermore the caramel malt is already converted to sugar and has no enzymatic (diastatic) power so it will not convert anymore. Last, while the black malt is not converted it has been so roasted that it adds very little fermentables and only flavor.

That said, no harm done, just wasted a little time doing the steps. Efficiency would be about the same, so you would end up with similar OG all things being equal in the process.

A decoction is a special kind of step mash where the temperature changes are made by boiling thick portions (most of grains) of mash and adding them back to the thin portion (no grains). While this facilitates the temperature raises it also adds flavors the mash. A regular step mash is not a substitute for a decoction mash.

Going forward, if using LME, crystal malts, and roasted malts - there is no benefit to step mashing. Instead you just need to steep the malts to obtain their sugars and flavors.

Note, base malts (Pilsner, Pale and Munichs) need to be mashed and a step mash or single infusion would be appropriate.

 

[bracconiere]

what were your step temps?

 

[The Hansa]

what were your step temps?

125 F for an hour and a half
155 F for 45 mins
168 F for 45 mins

 

[bracconiere]

you would have needed to include like a pound of pale malt for the enzymes to work their magic.

(and i would do it in a tighter mash, then the full volume. then add water and the LME for the boil)

for the record that's a protein rest, a sacarification rest for a full body beer, and a mash out to stop enymatic activity. but during the proccess of making crystal, and black malt the enzymes aren't preserved for mashing...

 

[The Hansa]

you would have needed to include like a pound of pale malt for the enzymes to work their magic.

(and i would do it in a tighter mash, then the full volume. then add water and the LME for the boil)

for the record that's a protein rest, a sacarification rest for a full body beer, and a mash out to stop enymatic activity. but during the proccess of making crystal, and black malt the enzymes aren't preserved for mashing...

Thanks for the tips... Cutting down on time would have been a good move if i knew i could do so.

 

[bracconiere]

Thanks for the tips... Cutting down on time would have been a good move if i knew i could do so.

well i'm not good at brewing, but i'm thinking you'd better off taking the time with some pale malt. if you wanted a protein rest, and full body.

i've never been quite sure how effective the mashing in the kernel for making crystal actually was. so you could pull some more conversion from the unconverted starch with a steeping stage. but it would require malt with diastatic power, (ability to convert geletanized starch to simpiler sugars that can ferment)

 

[Kickass]

Yep, @Holden Caulfield pretty much nailed it in post #2.

Exception, I think their explanation of decoction was incorrect, I don’t think you boil the grains, rather you draw off liquid, boil that then add it back to the grains. I could be wrong though, I’ve never done a decoction mash so someone please correct me.

One last point of clarification, if using specifically malts with DME or LME (like your recipe called for), be sure you’re steeping those in water at about 155f for 15-30 minutes. Then remove them from the water, bring to a boil and finally add DME or LME.

 

[bracconiere]

please correct me.

@Yooper corrected me, so you get my handy me downs. i was boiling runnings from my mash. thinking boiling grains would give me tannins, but she told me as long as the SG and ph is good, boil them grains. i went from 88% effec, to 92% thanks Yoop!

there's not much point in a 155f steep with crystal malt. it doesn't have any enzymatic power left. and according to the above you could just put it in a bag and boil it along with the hops if you add the LME, whatever first...correct me if i'm wrong?

but if you wanted a protein rest, it'd need a base malt added with the steeping grains.

 

[Kickass]

@bracconiere, thank you for the correction.

The 155f is just a ballpark temp to pull flavor and color. You’re correct in that there’s no enzymatic conversion happening. Might be tradition, or likely fear of tannins, but I don’t think most extract brewers are boiling their steeping grains. Who knows, maybe this is an evolution in extract + steeping grain that’s happening or just a different method from when I brewed extract.

 

[bracconiere]

@bracconiere, thank you for the correction.

The 155f is just a ballpark temp to pull flavor and color. You’re correct in that there’s no enzymatic conversion happening. Might be tradition, or likely fear of tannins, but I don’t think most extract brewers are boiling their steeping grains. Who knows, maybe this is an evolution in extract + steeping grain that’s happening or just a different method from when I brewed extract.

well i just had it beat into my head, temperature is like damn near insignificant, compared to ph or specific gravity. i'm surprised i have teeth left, lol

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I don’t think you boil the grains, rather you draw off liquid, boil that then add it back to the grains. I could be wrong though, I’ve never done a decoction mash so someone please correct me.

First a clarification. The thin mash can be thought of as just the liquid. The thick mash is made up of mostly grain with enough liquid to allow for boiling without scorching. Per John Palmer the mash thickness of a thick decoction mash is .6-.9 quarts/pound. When I do a thick mash decoction nearly all the grain is removed during the decoction with most of the liquid left behind. By boiling the thick mash, Maillard and caramelization occurs, adding flavors to your wort. Tannin extraction is not a concern if the PH of your mash is in the correct range.

For the most part, boiling the thin mash (liquid portion) is very much incorrect unless it is done for mash out. In fact, it would be very detrimental to the mashing process.

During mashing, most of the enzymes that break down the starches into fermentable sugars end up in the liquid. These enzymes needs to be left behind in order to continue to convert starches throughout the mashing process. Typically, the only time the thin mash is boiled is during the last decoction of a double or triple decoction to raise the mash to mash out temperature. As the mash has already been fully converted by then, denaturing the enzymes just locks in the fermentability profile and prepares the mash for lautering.

Here is a video from Northern Brewer that demonstrates the process in a very relax, don't worry, have a homebrew way.

 

[Barbarossa]

First a clarification. The thin mash can be thought of as just the liquid. The thick mash is made up of mostly grain with enough liquid to allow for boiling without scorching. Per John Palmer the mash thickness of a thick decoction mash is .6-.9 quarts/pound. When I do a thick mash decoction nearly all the grain is removed during the decoction with most of the liquid left behind. By boiling the thick mash, Maillard and caramelization occurs, adding flavors to your wort. Tannin extraction is not a concern if the PH of your mash is in the correct range.

For the most part, boiling the thin mash (liquid portion) is very much incorrect unless it is done for mash out. In fact, it would be very detrimental to the mashing process.

During mashing, most of the enzymes that break down the starches into fermentable sugars end up in the liquid. These enzymes needs to be left behind in order to continue to convert starches throughout the mashing process. Typically, the only time the thin mash is boiled is during the last decoction of a double or triple decoction to raise the mash to mash out temperature. As the mash has already been fully converted by then, denaturing the enzymes just locks in the fermentability profile and prepares the mash for lautering.

Here is a video from Northern Brewer that demonstrates the process in a very relax, don't worry, have a homebrew way.

Wow this is real great info(and video).

After reading a few books about lagers, I was on the fence between continuing step mashes for my Vienna lagers and starting decoctions. I will definitely do it with decoctions this weekend. Cheers!

 

[Kickass]

@Holden Caulfield thanks for clarifying.