Step mash or no step mash?!? Brewing today

[sablesurfer]

Hello,
I thought I had done all the research I needed for my first ever czech pilsner, but now I have two data points that are outside the 'accepted' instructions.

The original decoction mashing with a protein rest seems to be due to under/poorly modified malts.

Every current recipe says that you could do single infusion, but triple gets you more of the original style. (Or not, some suggest there is no difference.)

Then, in two places, I have read that if you do a protein rest on our modern highly modified malts you actually get too thin a beer and no head retention.

Soooo....anyone know for reals?

The reason I want to do the three steps is because there is a HUGE difference between American pilsners (even craft ones) and the stuff I get fresh at this local German restaurant in town. That stuff, is AMAZING, and I want to replicate that.

I have the German pilzner malts, I have the czech Saaz hops, I am ready for my tmave pivo, but this last question has me hung up on brew day.

 

[Spartan1979]

What temperatures are your steps at?

 

[sablesurfer]

Right now I am planning...128-15m, 146-20m, 156-20m, and then 165.

 

[stpug]

Purely anecdotal: I am very happy with the resulting lagers I've been brewing using the Hochkurz step mash. It's basically what you listed above without the lower protein rest. The beers dry out quite a bit but don't taste as dry as they test. Plus, it's really easy to do. I use longer beta and alpha rests though.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Infusion_Mashing#Hochkurz_Mash

 

[brewshki]

Do both. Start with the single infusion because it's easier. If it's not what you want, do the decoctions next time. Decoctions really are for under modified malts, but I am sure you can do it to modified malts and see a difference. Go easy and then adjust. Experiment!

 

[biestie]

The reason I want to do the three steps is because there is a HUGE difference between American pilsners (even craft ones) and the stuff I get fresh at this local German restaurant in town. That stuff, is AMAZING, and I want to replicate that.

I might suggest that the reason that German Lagers are so good, and American ones are so.... not, is ingredients/recipe, and not whether do a step or decoction mash.

A good recipe, with fresh ingredients, and a good fermentation will make an excellent German Lager with a single infusion mash.

 

[Spartan1979]

It's too late now but I'd skip the 128 step. Mash in at 146, pull a decoction to raise it to 156. Then if you want to do a mash out, pull a decoction for that.

 

[RM-MN]

Mill your grains a little coarser than normal. That will make your conversion take longer to complete which will give you more control over the fermentability as you will be able to denature the beta amylase before it dries out the beer too much and will allow the alpha amylase to give your beer more body. (note: this is only conjecture based on how conversion proceeds with the very finely milled grains in BIAB systems)

 

[DoD_Ales]

Maybe you've already considered water, but one of the biggest distinctions between Czech pilsners and the more common Bohemian pilsners is mashing with very soft water.

 

[whovous]

I have the German pilzner malts, I have the czech Saaz hops, I am ready for my tmave pivo, but this last question has me hung up on brew day.

Most likely I am just being my old pedantic self here, but the highlighted sentence makes me wonder if you are asking a different question than the one being answered.

A tmave pivo is a dark beer, like the Czech Kozel. If you want something closer to the original Urquell, then the Czech term is svetly lezak.

I thought I'd offer this tiny language lesson on the off chance you really are trying to make a dark Czech beer. If not, then I apologize for showing off three of the roughly fifty Czech words in my vocabulary.

 

[specharka]

Purely anecdotal: I am very happy with the resulting lagers I've been brewing using the Hochkurz step mash. It's basically what you listed above without the lower protein rest. The beers dry out quite a bit but don't taste as dry as they test. Plus, it's really easy to do. I use longer beta and alpha rests though.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Infusion_Mashing#Hochkurz_Mash

I never realized that's what it's called...I use this mash schedule for 50% of my beers and they always finish well. Incredible body and complexity for a beer that finishes around 1.010.

 

[sablesurfer]

Most likely I am just being my old pedantic self here, but the highlighted sentence makes me wonder if you are asking a different question than the one being answered.

A tmave pivo is a dark beer, like the Czech Kozel. If you want something closer to the original Urquell, then the Czech term is svetly lezak.

I thought I'd offer this tiny language lesson on the off chance you really are trying to make a dark Czech beer. If not, then I apologize for showing off three of the roughly fifty Czech words in my vocabulary.

Yep, I am shooting for a dark lager. Once I started looking up recipes, these ones intrigued me more. Pivo = beer, and hat is about the only word I have learned so far... I think it is czech because the used in a documentary from Munchies that sent me in this direction. One place had all the 6*, 12*, 16* labels and I had to go look that up too. So I am shooting for a dark lager in the 12* range from what I read oh madfermentationist....or one of the many articles I came across.

 

[whovous]

Yep, I am shooting for a dark lager. Once I started looking up recipes, these ones intrigued me more. Pivo = beer, and hat is about the only word I have learned so far... I think it is czech because the used in a documentary from Munchies that sent me in this direction. One place had all the 6*, 12*, 16* labels and I had to go look that up too. So I am shooting for a dark lager in the 12* range from what I read oh madfermentationist....or one of the many articles I came across.

Tmave means dark and czerny means black. The terms are largely interchangeable, though the former is more formally correct when it comes to beer. From what I've read, its the decoction mash that distinguishes Czech tmaves from German dunkels.

You might take a look at the Fuggled blog. The guy appears to be both a pro and home brewer and he gives tips on a couple different tmaves. One is based on a brew from Kout na Sumave. Many regard Kout as the best brewery in the Czech Republic. The brewery has a fascinating back story, but that is getting way off topic here.