Steeping grains adding gravity?

[mmonacel]

I'm looking to do an all-grain Janet's Brown from JZ's BCS book (page 143). Below is the grist. Everything but the 2-row and Wheat Malt are listed as "steeping grains". I plan to mash them like I always do. The books lists the OG as 1.066, but BeerSmith and my own calcs show 1.074. Now if I exclude the steeping grains from the gravity contribution calculation it comes to 61, which is closer, but still a bit off. All ppp/gal figures are from BeerSmith. Where am I going wrong here?

Grain                 ppp/gal      pounds      Gravity Contribution
2-row	                37            12             56.51
Wheat Malt        40             1               5.09
Cara-Pils            33             1.25          5.25
Caramel 40         34             1.25          5.41
Chocolate 420     35             0.5            2.23
			
gallons	5.5		
efficiency	0.7		
Total Gravity Points	74.49

 

[mmonacel]

sorry - above was the best table-like formatting I could do

 

[jdrowell15]

Does your efficiency in Beersmith match the recipe?

 

[mmonacel]

Yes - all the BCS recipes are set to 70% and BeerSmith is also set to 70%. Since my calcs and BeerSmith's calcs come out the same I think the entry is good.

 

[jdrowell15]

I remember BCS does extract first and then tells you what grains to replace the extract with. Maybe they give the gravity for if it was brewed extract and not all grain. When you brew extract you are not converting the specialty grains to sugar where as you are in all grain. That could account for the little difference you are seeing.

 

[jdrowell15]

Steeping grains and specialty grains are typically one in the same. Though not always.

 

[mmonacel]

I think I found it... It appears to be an issue with batch size.

My "batch size" figure in BeerSmith is set to 5.5 gallons. This is because BS defines "batch size" as what goes into the fermenter. You can see this in the Classic Recipe view where it shows "Batch Size (fermenter)" as well as the help files. In BCS all recipes are 6 gallon recipes and assumes .5 gal loss to trub and chiller (ie. 5.5 into fermenter for 6 gallon recipe) and .5 gal fermenter loss (which equates to 5 gallon bottling). This is also how my equipment profile is set up.

Unfortunately if you enter in a 5.5 gallon batch size for the recipe, all the volumes work out (volume into fermenter and bottling volume) but the gravity contributions do not. If I put 6 gallons in for a batch size, my gravity contributions work out (in this case they come to 68 which is almost spot on) but the fermenter and bottling volumes are .5 gallons off.

Hmmmm... is this a bug in BeerSmith or am I thinking about this the wrong way?

 

[mmonacel]

Maybe the "bug" is simply the display of "Batch Size (fermenter)" in the classic view not taking into account the chiller / trub loss...

 

[mmonacel]

it appears others have seen something similar:

http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,5124.0.html

 

[jdrowell15]

In Beersmith when you set up your equipment you enter in how much your particular system loses to trub/break, evap, etc... I would think that would take care of that issue.

 

[ingchr1]

There does appear to be something off in steeped grains in BS. I noticed it during my last brew, and I think its related to the type of brew selected. I was doing an extract brew and wanted the brew sheet to show a step for the steeped grains with the water quantity, strike temperature and time. When you have extract selected it will not give you this step since its in the mash profile, it just tells you to steep the grains. So I chose partial mash, and made a mash profile just for the steep. When i checked my original gravity against what BS said, my gravity was low. I don't remember the numbers off hand but I think BS was around 1.062 and I got 1.057. I then changed the brew type to extract and the OG from BS change to my actual gravity, 1.057.

 

[mmonacel]

In Beersmith when you set up your equipment you enter in how much your particular system loses to trub/break, evap, etc... I would think that would take care of that issue.

Yep - I mentioned that above.

"In BCS all recipes are 6 gallon recipes and assumes .5 gal loss to trub and chiller (ie. 5.5 into fermenter for 6 gallon recipe) and .5 gal fermenter loss (which equates to 5 gallon bottling). This is also how my equipment profile is set up."

Something else you think may need to be set up that would affect this?

 

[mmonacel]

There does appear to be something off in steeped grains in BS. I noticed it during my last brew, and I think its related to the type of brew selected. I was doing an extract brew and wanted the brew sheet to show a step for the steeped grains with the water quantity, strike temperature and time. When you have extract selected it will not give you this step since its in the mash profile, it just tells you to steep the grains. So I chose partial mash, and made a mash profile just for the steep. When i checked my original gravity against what BS said, my gravity was low. I don't remember the numbers off hand but I think BS was around 1.062 and I got 1.057. I then changed the brew type to extract and the OG from BS change to my actual gravity, 1.057.

Yes - there is a known issue with partial mashes and OG in BeerSmith. I forget why, but I believe it may have to do with the science behind it rather than a bug. FWIW, my recipe is set up as All Grain.

 

[mmonacel]

For those interested in the answer / reason, see these links. In short, BeerSmith treats trub / chiller losses different than some would expect.

Beer Forum • View topic - Brewing Classic Styles and Beersmith

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/janets-brown-beersmith-vs-classic-styles-258275/

I set the batch size to 6 gallons and my trub/chiller losses in my equipment to 0 and not only are the gravities correct, but the water/liquid volumes match up much closer to reality.