steeping carapils malt

[newfie]

So I was into the LHBS Brewing Centers, fantastic place by the way, and saw a cream ale recipe with just light LME and some "dextrin malt". I think thats the same as carapils. It was 3kg(6.6 lb) LME and about 300 g (10~11 oz) of dextrin. After some light digging around I have found two opinions on the effectiveness of steeping just the carapils without a base malt. Some are saying that steeping carapils alone will add unconverted starch to the beer. Others say that carapils has been converted by some stewing process and the starches are already converted to provide the unfermentables. So what gives ....
Or are both these ideas wrong??

also, if the starches weren't already converted, and the carapils was mashed with a base malt, wouldn't that lead to fementable sugars? Which sort of defeats the purpose of using carapils as a malt to add mouthfeel and body to light beers?

 

[Lil' Sparky]

I think you'd be better off just adding some malto dextrin. I haven't used it, but I think it's the powder form of carapils malt. All it does is add some body to the beer. See here: http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter20-1.html

 

[Dr Malt]

Newfie:

First, you should be able to steep the dextrin malt without a base malt. And as Lil' Sparky says, if you want dextrins, you can just buy and add maltodextrins. And no, maltodextrins are not powdered CaraPils. Maltodextrins are usually a corn based starch hydrolysate used in the food industry. Maltodextrins have a lot of interesting properties useful in various food items and personal care items. If you use straight maltodextrins, you want to use 1-2 oz.

The addition of dextrins or dextrin malts to beers to enhance the body or mouthfeel of beer is under study in the commercial brewing industry. It is questionable whether dextrins malts actually contain much dextrin or if dextrins really are the enhancers of body and mouthfeel in beer. I suspect it is a combination of things. However, to follow your recipe, feel free to do whatever you prefer.

Dr Malt

 

[FlyGuy]

Newfie:

First, you should be able to steep the dextrin malt without a base malt.

Given that Carapils malt has no diastatic power, it can't convert itself, so won't steeping Carapils malt lead to chill haze?

 

[newfie]

just when i think i understand this hobby-nay, obsession- this happens. so the thought is:

• 
  carapils may contain dextrins....maybe not

• 
  dextrins may contribute to mouthfeel, body etc. ... maybe not

so what about the conversion of starches in carapils? are the starches converted? if the sugars from the starches are not converted to dextrins then what? if the sugars are not dextrins then won't the enzymes chew them up during a mash?

so many questions and so little time ....

thanks for the insight
brewfie

 

[david_42]

A possible source of confusion, modified vs. converted. Fully modified means the starches have been broken up during the malting process into small grains, but it is still starch. Conversion is the process of breaking starches into sugars.

So, carapils can be fully modified or under modified, but it still needs mashing with 2-row to be fully converted. In small amounts, the starches aren't a big deal. [But I brew on the Dark Side]

 

[boo boo]

They certainly give great service over there. I get a lot of my special malts there when I can't get them locally and all my pils malt come from there.

Acording to Alans site http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Grains they don't really need to be mashed, but if you want to reduce the chance of haze, then I say mash it. If you only need it for the dextrins (for body) then Malto Dextrine works just as well.

In How to Brew, John says if steeped it will contribute a lot of unconverted starch and cause starch haze.

 

[newfie]

hey boo boo, yeah they are great over there. it is an extract/steep recipe ... with only dextrin as the grain. i brewed it anyway...but it will be interesting to see if there is starch haze. i steeped them for 30 mins at 155F. wait and see.
by the way ...
hows trinity bay these days?
right on
brewfie

 

[boo boo]

Heading out this weekend if the weather co-operates.

I met up with one of my club members last night and he brought down from Ottawa some Mill St. coffee porter and some St. Ambroise oatmeal stout for me to try. Man what great beers. Full of the mouthfeel you are trying for in your creame ale.
Too bad these aren't available here.