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Beer Snob

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Hello all. My name is Michael and I am starting to brew again after many years... think its been about 7ish actually. Found all of my equipment minus a few things and bought some supplies today. The store I went to was very helpful, which I was thankful for. I did all kinds of research and thought I would go in knowing what I wanted, but when I got there and saw everything and all of the possibilities it was pretty overwhelming:)

So we started with the fact that although I have made many beers it's been a while.... so if I wanted to do sometihing a bit more complex then toss some extract in a pot I should still take it slow.... so we started with what I wanted to make. I said, a better Sam Adams Cherry Wheat. I love it and know I can make it better:)

So here is what I got (incidently this is from memory... its in the car now)

3.2 lb can of unhopped Wheat malt extract syrup
4.0 lb bag of Wheat dry malt (never used dry malt before...)
White labs Hefenwenzen Ale liquid yeast (I wanted the traditional yeast haze in wheats... he said this one would be good)
1.5 oz Perle Hops for boiling
0.5 oz Perle Hops for finishing
49 oz Oregon Cherry fruit puree
Cane sugar for bottling
8 oz of Malto-Dextrine (I wanted some mouthfeel a bit... nothing overwhelming, but I wanted something heavier then the Sam Adams)

Procedure I am thinking would make sense here... pls commend your hearts out:)
---------------------------------------------
1. Add water to pot with syrup extract
2. Add Dry extract.... I am guessing here that total contents of pot should not exceed 2 gallons correct??
I am also trying to remember how I did something.... I got a 6.5 Gal glass primarry (like to see the action)... I cant remember how kept the amount of water to 5 Gal... I know you have cold water in it before you dump the wort in it... but how much do you put in it....?

3. Add 1.5 oz Perle hops
4. In 40 min add .5 oz Perle hops

Ok... so far pretty simple... questions....

When do you add the Malto-Dextrine?
He suggested not to use the entire bag, but half of it... thoughts?

I had tried something similar to this before but used the little 4 oz bottle of cherry extract... it did not come out how I had wanted so that is why I wanted to try the puree this time around. What was suggested today is that I add it to the secondary... no the primarry... reading "The Bible", Papazian says that the addition of fruit should be after the boil while still in the pot to pasturize the fruit. Was this suggested from the person today because this pureeed cherry extract is in a can and is already pasturized?

Another question about the Cherry.... ok.... I'm going to ferment it out first and rack to secondary (a 5 Gal carboy)... then add the Cherry... my question is because of the addtion of sugars will it start active fermentation again... that is .... should I rack it off the yeast and then sanitize the 6.5 Gal carboy to rack it back into the 6.5 so the beer can ferment out more.

He had said that I would not need Irish moss because I am going to want the chery puree to ferment out first which should take several weeks. He had also said that I'll have enough unfurmentable sugars in the wort and secondary to not need yeast nutrient.

I am also just thinking of sanitation. I have One Step... but not fresh... (probably 7 years old) should I wait to get fresh stuff or am I fine with it this weekend.
 

DeRoux's Broux

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Michael_Schaap said:
Another question about the Cherry.... ok.... I'm going to ferment it out first and rack to secondary (a 5 Gal carboy)... then add the Cherry... my question is because of the addtion of sugars will it start active fermentation again... that is .... should I rack it off the yeast and then sanitize the 6.5 Gal carboy to rack it back into the 6.5 so the beer can ferment out more.

He had said that I would not need Irish moss because I am going to want the chery puree to ferment out first which should take several weeks. He had also said that I'll have enough unfurmentable sugars in the wort and secondary to not need yeast nutrient.

I am also just thinking of sanitation. I have One Step... but not fresh... (probably 7 years old) should I wait to get fresh stuff or am I fine with it this weekend.
hey michael, and welcome back to the dark side!:D

with the fruit, i'd add it to the secondary, then rack on top of it. you'll see some more activity, but you'll be fine in the 5 g carboy. maybe not much, but you'll see some. i did w/ my blueberry wheat. some say they didnt get too much.

i wouldn't use the irish moss for a hefe. it'll lose some of it's character.

and if your not making a yeast starter, i'd use the yeast nutrient. every little bit helps for a good, healthy fermentation w/ the shortest lag time possible.

i'd get some new sanitizer. it's cheap, and can make or break your brew. but, that's just me.

good luck and keep us posted!
 

usmcruz

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I agree, the secondary is better, because the alcohol content at that point extracts more flavor to get that fresh cherry taste, cheers
 
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Hmm.... I've never made a starter before... When I brewed before liquid yeast was just starting to come out. Our staple was dry. If after a pitch you got nothing you just pitched again:) I have plenty of DME though so I think I'll try making a starter:)
 

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Michael_Schaap said:
Hmm.... I've never made a starter before... When I brewed before liquid yeast was just starting to come out. Our staple was dry. If after a pitch you got nothing you just pitched again:) I have plenty of DME though so I think I'll try making a starter:)
your beer will love u for it!:)
 

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ORRELSE said:
How do you figure that? :confused:
When you buy real extracts in the store do you notice that its mainly alcohol. Well real extracts are extracted in a alcohol solution, because the alcohol not only extracts the flavors from whatever it was combined with but also acts as a preservative. Thats why real extracts in the store cost so much. Same principle in the secondary. At that point the alcohol content, well not at extract strength but enough to take the flavors from what was soaked in it. Also if you put the fruit in your secondary instead of your primary your less prone to infection because again the alcohol acts as a preservative. Hope your not so confused now
 

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if the fruit is added to the primary, a lot of the fruit aroma and characteristics will be carried off with the co2 through the air lock....
 

usmcruz

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I agree, thats happened to me with a rasberry wheat i made. I had to add extract at bottling time.
 
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Extends PLAYTIME!:cross:

Ok. It's done.

1. Sanitized everything I could think of with One Step
2. Filled growler with 1/3 water
3. Dumped in pot with about 3/4 C DME
4. Let boil 15 min... stir stir stir
5. Filled sink with cold water and put pot in it to cool to about 80ish degrees
6. Swish funnel with One Step... dump mini wort in growler
7. After mixing Yeast, One Step top before taking it off and dump in growler
8. Shake like crazy to get all airiated before putting airlock on.

Now its sitting in the corner of my office so I can stare at it and stomp around muttering things like... "When it is gong to start making noises?" and all other kinds of things like that all while I'm typing to you guys.
 
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I think I am set to what I am going to do tomorrow. Only thought is now what to do with the Malto-Dextrine ? Do I add it to the wort with the grains? What I had believed this was used for is mouthfeel. How much of the bag do you think would be good... store person said like... half of it.... sound about right to folks?
 

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Michael_Schaap said:
I think I am set to what I am going to do tomorrow. Only thought is now what to do with the Malto-Dextrine ? Do I add it to the wort with the grains? What I had believed this was used for is mouthfeel. How much of the bag do you think would be good... store person said like... half of it.... sound about right to folks?
Do not boil it, you will be more accurate at gaging this at bottling time. As for how much, thats a matter of personal taste. Thats why i say add it at bottling time so that you dont over do it. You can add it slowly so that you get the perfect ratio. Hope this helps, later
 

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Michael_Schaap said:
I think I am set to what I am going to do tomorrow. Only thought is now what to do with the Malto-Dextrine ? Do I add it to the wort with the grains? What I had believed this was used for is mouthfeel. How much of the bag do you think would be good... store person said like... half of it.... sound about right to folks?
Every time I've used MD, I've added it to the boil along with the extract (this according to the instructions in the recipes in Clone Brews and Beer Captured. For a Wee Heavy Scotch Ale I used 12 oz., while a Hefe recipe calls for 2 oz. and a cream stout call for 1 lb. The 12 oz in the Wee Heavy seems just right to me...yields a very silky smooth mouthfeel.
 

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El Pistolero said:
Every time I've used MD, I've added it to the boil along with the extract (this according to the instructions in the recipes in Clone Brews and Beer Captured. For a Wee Heavy Scotch Ale I used 12 oz., while a Hefe recipe calls for 2 oz. and a cream stout call for 1 lb. The 12 oz in the Wee Heavy seems just right to me...yields a very silky smooth mouthfeel.
In brewing the good thing is that there is no one way to do things. What i was getting at is that he was confused on how much to add, meaning he really didnt know that if he added so and so it would give him a particular taste. Towards bottling time gives more control over the finished product.
 
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usmcruz said:
In brewing the good thing is that there is no one way to do things. What i was getting at is that he was confused on how much to add, meaning he really didnt know that if he added so and so it would give him a particular taste. Towards bottling time gives more control over the finished product.
Makes perfect sense to me. This is why I have tried to take notes in the past. I don't have the notes of this cherry wheat that I tried before, but I know I used that small bottle of cherry extract. I know I was not crazy about it, which is why I'm trying the puree.
 
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Couldn't have done that bad of a job with the starter. Woke up to a lot of action here:) Can't wait to wake up a bit hahahahahaha.
 

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Just remember like you said take notes, and when it comes time to sweeten with the md, if you sanitized a pot, just note of how much water you use as well to mix with the md. Dont add the md straight to the fermenter it will just settle to the bottom. Just like when your getting ready to add the priming sugar to the fermenter right before bottling. Drink one for me
 
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Well. I have to say that being that I have done this before many a times... I actually did think it was gonig to go smooter then it did. But.... "Don't worry, have a homebrew..."...

Few ramblings....

I almost had a boil over. Caught it just in time! Then 20 minutes later I did have one:) Not a big one, but hops were kinda all over the place. Everywhere but in the wort it had seemed. Total boil time was 60 minutes with the finishing hops getting about 5 in the boil and then was seeped till the wort cooled enough to dump in the primary. I had cold water in the sink and stired the wort for about 10 minutes to cool off a bit.

I think I have a big enough funnel but the strainer I have seemes small. The Hops kept clogging it out and I had to keep rinishing it out. It is certainly hoped enough though. I used 1.5 oz Perl (9.01 alpha) for boiling and 0.5 for finishing. I had tasted it after I found the SG and it was REALLY HOPPED... I am hoping it calms down a bit, but then again I have the cherry purree to add to the secondary after it ferments so that should help a bit.

The SG says 1.45 but I dont know.... I have always had problems figuring out what it is really. Need more practice with it I guess.

I had 1 1/2 gal of water in the primary initially and before I started had found where the 5 gal mark is on the carboy so I can mark it. So after I put the wort in the carboy I just added water to the 5 gal mark.

I had tried to airiate it as much as I could and I think I did a good job, but there is a lot of foam in the carboy. It is 6.5 gal so I am thinking I'll have plenty of room for fermentation. I actually wanted to put it in the office, but when push came to shove I realized this thing is heavy... just moved it in the living room besides the kitchen. Next time I'll have my wheeled cart from the car:) I have a carboy handle on the thing but when I tried to move the carboy the handle snaped off the top.... I was like... wow.... ok... think this will just go right over here...

At any rate.... just a few things I noticed:) I'm not worried exactly, probably just tired...I actually did not think it would tax me as physically as it did. I'm beat:drunk:
 

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Michael_Schaap said:
Well. I have to say that being that I have done this before many a times... I actually did think it was gonig to go smooter then it did. But.... "Don't worry, have a homebrew..."...

Few ramblings....

I almost had a boil over. Caught it just in time! Then 20 minutes later I did have one:) Not a big one, but hops were kinda all over the place. Everywhere but in the wort it had seemed. Total boil time was 60 minutes with the finishing hops getting about 5 in the boil and then was seeped till the wort cooled enough to dump in the primary. I had cold water in the sink and stired the wort for about 10 minutes to cool off a bit.

I think I have a big enough funnel but the strainer I have seemes small. The Hops kept clogging it out and I had to keep rinishing it out. It is certainly hoped enough though. I used 1.5 oz Perl (9.01 alpha) for boiling and 0.5 for finishing. I had tasted it after I found the SG and it was REALLY HOPPED... I am hoping it calms down a bit, but then again I have the cherry purree to add to the secondary after it ferments so that should help a bit.

The SG says 1.45 but I dont know.... I have always had problems figuring out what it is really. Need more practice with it I guess.

I had 1 1/2 gal of water in the primary initially and before I started had found where the 5 gal mark is on the carboy so I can mark it. So after I put the wort in the carboy I just added water to the 5 gal mark.

I had tried to airiate it as much as I could and I think I did a good job, but there is a lot of foam in the carboy. It is 6.5 gal so I am thinking I'll have plenty of room for fermentation. I actually wanted to put it in the office, but when push came to shove I realized this thing is heavy... just moved it in the living room besides the kitchen. Next time I'll have my wheeled cart from the car:) I have a carboy handle on the thing but when I tried to move the carboy the handle snaped off the top.... I was like... wow.... ok... think this will just go right over here...

At any rate.... just a few things I noticed:) I'm not worried exactly, probably just tired...I actually did not think it would tax me as physically as it did. I'm beat:drunk:
First off as for you trying to cool it down in the sink, make a mixture of water salt and ice to soak the brewing kettle in, the salt will lower temperature to freezing. As for your hoppiness, it will calm down, and if it doesnt and youve already added the cherry puree and its still very hoppy add the zest of 2 oranges to the secondary and the citrus causes a chemical reaction that smoothes out beer's that are really hoppy. You will barely taste the citrus though. Gives a nice touch to beers. If allot of foam is caused by fermentation, then take a 1 inch hose an stick it in the top of the carboy in place of the airlock and stopper and set the other end of the hose into some water with a little sanitizer (called a thumper) so that your vigorous fermentation wont cause your airlock to blow off and hit the cieling following the wort hitting the cieling. Other than that, it sounds like a good beer. Hope this helps
 
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Pitched at 3, left the house at 5 and came back at 9. Already have very active fermentation! Never started that fast for me, but then again Ive never made a starter either. Foam is nowhere near the top though. Think I'm safe:)

Right now I'm playing with same label ideas getting the hint from another thread to start sooner rather then later. I've never actually bothered. Another fun way to extend this project:)
 
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Woke up to a foamed out airlock. The air lock was still on but the cap was ossing foam(probably happened wihtin 30 min or so). So took off air lock and replaced with larger air tube I found. One end in the caboy and one end is in a growler half with water. That' s how I recall I did it last time. Wow. That yeast starter is something!
 

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I told you to put a thumper on there. Lucky you didnt blow the airlock and wort to the cieling. Put a pan under the growler, because that may not be large enough, but then maybe it will be large enough. Put a pan under it anyway so you dont have any overflo onto the floor. Sounds like you got a healthy fermentation going and this one I will bet will go to finish. Good job!!!
 
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Thanks:) Usually what I do is I wrap a towel around the carboy to keep the light out. This works double in case something like this happens. I'm glad I remembered to do it here. Although my wif'es facial expressions seems pricelss:) My very first one where I did not want to use the bucket, my friend and I did not think and we used a 5 gal..... ahh.....hmmm.... boy what a mess:)
 

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Michael_Schaap said:
Thanks:) Usually what I do is I wrap a towel around the carboy to keep the light out. This works double in case something like this happens. I'm glad I remembered to do it here. Although my wif'es facial expressions seems pricelss:) My very first one where I did not want to use the bucket, my friend and I did not think and we used a 5 gal..... ahh.....hmmm.... boy what a mess:)

I live on base housing in guam right now and we have fleurescent lights everywhere and so i shut them off at bottling time because in as little as 3 minutes exposed can cause a skunky flavor to arise. Dont have to worry about the fermenter, i have that stainless steel fermenator. Saved up and dropped the bones on one, but i wouldnt trade it for the world. no racking, no sanitizing equipment to rack, sample valve and dump valve, but all the time i save not doing that, Is the time i have to spend rubbing my wifes feet because she let me get it. The things a married brewer has to endure to get good equipment. I wont tell you what i had to do to get this milwaukee refractometer i just ordered. Cheers
 

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Well then I apologize If it was meant sarcastic. Us marine's have sort of an anger management issue.
 

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NTIAOMB - Not That It's Any Of My Business, but I took it as a sarcastic joke. Note the "sarcasm smilie"?:rolleyes:

You were the one that alluded that you may have done something naughty to "earn" the refractor. We are always throwing something out there to enhance the fun. For some, me included, providing sarcasm is a way of endearing you to the fold...it's expected to come back.:D

Of course, I could be totally wrong.

Back to the MD subject, I've always put my MD in the boil. Do you have a reference book/site I can go to that says add MD at bottling time? Maybe I've been doing it wrong. I am curious.

Mike: I know a lot of recipes call for 4-8 oz of MD, but I've found the magic number (for me) with Hefe's to be 1 oz. I've used 4, 3, and 2, but I get a gel effect in my glass. If you pour the yeast from the bottle in it and don't shake it good enough you'll have floaters that just seem to be suspended in gel. My description on it anyway. So I just use 1 oz, if any.
 

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My wife says i need anger management, because of the corp. Really im a good guy, but with a firecracker temper sometimes. I guess thats why I was so good in the corp, and not really good with my people skills. Ill work on it, no promises. I retracted that statement i made in the post before this one.
 

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homebrewer_99 said:
Good, let's get back to the sarcasm....

Actually, how about the info on when to use malto dextrin?

Do not boil it, you will be more accurate at gaging this at bottling time. As for how much, thats a matter of personal taste. Thats why i say add it at bottling time so that you dont over do it. You can add it slowly so that you get the perfect ratio. When you add it to your beer at bottling time remember to take notes on how much you added as well as how much water you mixed with it with in order to put it into the brew. Hope this helps, later
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usmcruz said:
Well then I apologize If it was meant sarcastic. Us marine's have sort of an anger management issue.
Nice save. :rolleyes: :p I did read your initial reply to this.

Keep your temper out of this forum and I'm saying this for your own good--your know-it-all attitude too.

If you have a problem with me or anyone else in this forum--use the PM feature and we'll fix whatever that way. I've already had several PMs about your posts, so if you think I was on your case from the beginning, myself and some others obviously noticed something about the "tone" of your posts.

This is a really good place and if you stick around and observe that even though not everyone here is a brewmaster, they are still knowledgeable and willing to help out the nOObs. I think your intentions are good but please, tone it down.
 

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ORRELSE said:
Nice save. :rolleyes: :p I did read your initial reply to this.

Keep your temper out of this forum and I'm saying this for your own good--your know-it-all attitude too.

If you have a problem with me or anyone else in this forum--use the PM feature and we'll fix whatever that way. I've already had several PMs about your posts, so if you think I was on your case from the beginning, myself and some others obviously noticed something about the "tone" of your posts.

This is a really good place and if you stick around and observe that even though not everyone here is a brewmaster, they are still knowledgeable and willing to help out the nOObs. I think your intentions are good but please, tone it down.
yep, we're just here to learn, exchange ideas, and have fun. we have a good group of people with lot's to share.

let's keep it fun and open minded....BREW ON!
 
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I do very much appreciate the input. All of it:)

Like was said before the important thing is that we are all having a blast and learning from each other. 5 people will have 40 correct ways of doing something, but like has been shown time and time again. It all works out in the end for this hobby, which is the beuty of the saying "Don't worry, Have a homebrew".

Ok... well... 8pm came around. Hose looks pretty dried up inside so I put a cleaned air lock on it. Wife was like... well look at it... you sure its not going to explode (hahahahaha). Oy...
 

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ORRELSE said:
Nice save. :rolleyes: :p I did read your initial reply to this.

Keep your temper out of this forum and I'm saying this for your own good--your know-it-all attitude too.

If you have a problem with me or anyone else in this forum--use the PM feature and we'll fix whatever that way. I've already had several PMs about your posts, so if you think I was on your case from the beginning, myself and some others obviously noticed something about the "tone" of your posts.

This is a really good place and if you stick around and observe that even though not everyone here is a brewmaster, they are still knowledgeable and willing to help out the nOObs. I think your intentions are good but please, tone it down.

If people had a problem after all my posts then they wouldnt say thank you. I dont know it all but from the looks of your replies to people, I definately know a hell of allot more then you. Im not scared to get kicked out of your little forum, doesnt matter to me. Im sure you will wine enough to do it though i could care less. I like it when people sincerely challenge my ways of fixing homebrewing problems, but dont challenge me, and try to make me look stupid on some elementary question of brewing when you know what i wrote is the only possible answer. I think we need to incorporate sensitivity training into these forums.
 

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Michael_Schaap said:
I do very much appreciate the input. All of it:)

Like was said before the important thing is that we are all having a blast and learning from each other. 5 people will have 40 correct ways of doing something, but like has been shown time and time again. It all works out in the end for this hobby, which is the beuty of the saying "Don't worry, Have a homebrew".

Ok... well... 8pm came around. Hose looks pretty dried up inside so I put a cleaned air lock on it. Wife was like... well look at it... you sure its not going to explode (hahahahaha). Oy...
Well if its going to explode then make sure its not near her stuff in the house otherwise they hold it against you. Mine blew up near her couch, and gave it a nice shade of amber, but she didnt think so. I had to eat the cleaning bill. hahaha
 

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usmcruz said:
Do not boil it, you will be more accurate at gaging this at bottling time. As for how much, thats a matter of personal taste. Thats why i say add it at bottling time so that you dont over do it. You can add it slowly so that you get the perfect ratio. When you add it to your beer at bottling time remember to take notes on how much you added as well as how much water you mixed with it with in order to put it into the brew. Hope this helps, later
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Basically, what you're saying it to spoon it into individual bottles? Not that I don't believe you, but I think I'll do more research before I go that route. You are the first person I ever heard saying not to add to the boil. If I find something on the subject I'll be sure to let everyone know.:D
 

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homebrewer_99 said:
Basically, what you're saying it to spoon it into individual bottles? Not that I don't believe you, but I think I'll do more research before I go that route. You are the first person I ever heard saying not to add to the boil. If I find something on the subject I'll be sure to let everyone know.:D
That would be a long bottling session, no, you add it to your brew like you add your priming sugar right before you bottle. gives more control over the taste by adjusting and adding little by little while you take notes to get it just right. Just take the md and combine it with a premeasured amount of boiling water, cool, then add to your finished beer and mix it in slowly. You could add this to your boil if you wanted too, but do you know what an ounce or pound of md will do to your finished product, and if you did add too much and make your beer too sweet then you would probably have to add more water to water it down and then add more fermentable's to raise the alcohol again. Once you get expierienced on how much too add, then i would say add it to your boil, but to err on the side of caution after you spent so long concocting this brew. Research is always good, tell me what you find. Cheers
 

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usmcruz said:
That would be a long bottling session, no, you add it to your brew like you add your priming sugar right before you bottle. gives more control over the taste by adjusting and adding little by little while you take notes to get it just right. Just take the md and combine it with a premeasured amount of boiling water, cool, then add to your finished beer and mix it in slowly. You could add this to your boil if you wanted too, but do you know what an ounce or pound of md will do to your finished product, and if you did add too much and make your beer too sweet then you would probably have to add more water to water it down and then add more fermentable's to raise the alcohol again. Once you get expierienced on how much too add, then i would say add it to your boil, but to err on the side of caution after you spent so long concocting this brew. Research is always good, tell me what you find. Cheers
HB99...this information is full of holes. Maltodextrin will NOT add extra sweetness to a beer, like he said. If you want body and extra sweetness that won't ferment out, obviously use lactose instead of MD.
FWIW, Maltodextrin is the same thing (essentially) as using carapils in an AG recipe. Everyone knows carapils adds some fermentables but no sweetness or flavor. MD is the same thing but in powder form.

I'd use a half pound and not much more than that.
 

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ORRELSE said:
HB99...this information is full of holes. Maltodextrin will NOT add extra sweetness to a beer, like he said. If you want body and extra sweetness that won't ferment out, obviously use lactose instead of MD.
FWIW, Maltodextrin is the same thing (essentially) as using carapils in an AG recipe. Everyone knows carapils adds some fermentables but no sweetness or flavor. MD is the same thing but in powder form.

I'd use a half pound and not much more than that.
Just one hole to fill in. Your right about the sweetness, i was thinking of all-grain dextrine malts or lactose. One of them. My procedure of adding the md to the final beer is correct. How the heck did I fumble on that play.
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i never use more than a .5 lb of carapils in a brew either. sometimes never. just depends on the brew.
 

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