Starting a Nano Brewery - Fermentation setup

[Schalk79]

We are seriously considering to upscale our brewing setup to a 400L nano brewery. The plan is to sell bottle conditioned, limited release beers (single hop Pales Ales, single hop IPAs), a standard American Pale Ale and a California Common.

Currently we are thinking of the following setup to use (3 brewing vessels very similar to the ones manufactured by Stout Tanks, Oregon):
Hot Liquor Tank (with RIMS coil) - Electric Heating
Mash Tun
Kettle - Electric Heating
Cold water storage tank - for cooling wort, housed in cold room
Warm water storage tank - water heated by cooling process & heat from cold room equipment, used for cleaning and following brew if necessary
2x pumps
Hop back
Plate chiller

Now my question is: How many fermenters and how many brite beer tanks will be necessary / ideal for such a setup?

 

[Nateo]

That sounds like a good question for probrewer.com.

There are some former and current pros on here, but there are a bunch of pros over there.

I'd get as many fermentors are you can afford. From what I understand, fermentation is where your supply will bottleneck. You really only need a day or two in a brite tank if you can chill it far enough, but you'll need a few days at least in the fermentor, maybe longer.

 

[pipapat]

i second probrewer.com i have been poking around on there as well for a similar idea.

 

[Schalk79]

Thanks guys... I'll head over to probrewer as well

 

[Nateo]

The best time to start a nano will be in about 2-3 years, when the first wave of nanos go under and there is a bunch of used nano-sized equipment for cheap.

 

[Schalk79]

The best time to start a nano will be in about 2-3 years, when the first wave of nanos go under and there is a bunch of used nano-sized equipment for cheap.

I agree, unfortunately here in Cape Town there really are none to offer that opportunity. We will be one of the first nano breweries to make it or to fail ;-)
Our plan is roughly based on www.thekernelbrewery.com in London....

Hope we can pull it off...

 

[LordUlrich]

While probrewer is rely the right place for this discussion i will give you a bit of guidance so you can answer the question. How much equipment you need is rely more of an economic\business decision than a beer question.
First you need to figure out how often you need to brew, (based on how much it costs you to stay in business, don't forget to pay yourself). Then based on how long each beer needs to sit in the fermenter you can figure out how many fermenters you NEED, more is better as you can brew more often. This might determine the types of beer you can brew, lagers require you have more fermenters as they take longer and cost more (in cooling costs) to brew.
Best of luck to you.

 

[Nateo]

First you need to figure out how often you need to brew, (based on how much it costs you to stay in business, don't forget to pay yourself). Then based on how long each beer needs to sit in the fermenter you can figure out how many fermenters you NEED, more is better as you can brew more often.

I think that is pretty good advice, but there are a couple other considerations. Most pro brewers will tell you to go as big as possible, because brewing is time/labor intensive, and you don't want to be brewing every single day if you have to go out and sell your product too. Unless you've got enough staff to have sales and distro too, in which case you'll need to make a lot of money to pay everyone, in which case you need to brew a lot of beer. So it's a sort of feedback loop.

What happens when you can't sell the 3 barrels of beer you're making every day (or week or whatever)? If you're overcapitalized with a bigger system than you need, and you're not selling enough beer, you'll go out of business (or just lose a lot of money) pretty quickly. You don't want to start so undercapitalized you're working yourself to death, but the lower your capital costs, the quicker you'll break even.

I'm rooting for you. Owning a business is great fun and terribly hard, all at the same time. I work 5am-11pm some days, and it really consumes my whole life, but I can take naps, or hang out on HBT talk whenever I feel like it, and no one can fire me.

 

[Nateo]

Also, there's a lot of info over here for nano brewers:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/groups/going-pro/

 

[B-Dub]

Most pro brewers will tell you to go as big as possible, because brewing is time/labor intensive, and you don't want to be brewing every single day if you have to go out and sell your product too.

With nano brewing the real money maker is selling $5 pints direct to the customer. If you plan on selling kegs to restaurants your price point goes way down and you will need to produce more beer.

Bottling beer is labor intensive as well. Your price line can be pushed up for special brews (IIPA, RIS, Barley Wines, SOURS), but if you are planning on selling IPAs, single hop beers or commons I think your price will have to be low enough to get the average guy to buy them. You will be competing with all the other breweries with those styles of beers.

I would try for a 7 barrel system with a few fermentors and some ageing tanks (bright tanks). It is going to take you 8 hours to brew 50 gallons or 210, so you should try and make it worth your while. If you are undersized from the start you will be brewing all the time and making very little money.

Just my .02.
BW

 

[Crucial-BBQ]

We are seriously considering to upscale our brewing setup to a 400L nano brewery. The plan is to sell bottle conditioned, limited release beers (single hop Pales Ales, single hop IPAs), a standard American Pale Ale and a California Common.

Currently we are thinking of the following setup to use (3 brewing vessels very similar to the ones manufactured by Stout Tanks, Oregon):
Hot Liquor Tank (with RIMS coil) - Electric Heating
Mash Tun
Kettle - Electric Heating
Cold water storage tank - for cooling wort, housed in cold room
Warm water storage tank - water heated by cooling process & heat from cold room equipment, used for cleaning and following brew if necessary
2x pumps
Hop back
Plate chiller

Now my question is: How many fermenters and how many brite beer tanks will be necessary / ideal for such a setup?

As Nateo pointed out, how many fermentors you need/how much beer you are producing doesn't mean diddly squat if you are having a hard time moving it into consumers hands. I briefly entertained the idea myself a while ago, and after doing some research (Google nano brewery interviews) and the biggest obstacle you will find (as mentioned from those who do/did it) is getting your beer into restaurants, bars, and store shelves.

I would suggest doing some market research first. There could be a reason no one else attempted a nano in Cape Town.

 

[Schalk79]

With nano brewing the real money maker is selling $5 pints direct to the customer. If you plan on selling kegs to restaurants your price point goes way down and you will need to produce more beer.

Bottling beer is labor intensive as well. Your price line can be pushed up for special brews (IIPA, RIS, Barley Wines, SOURS), but if you are planning on selling IPAs, single hop beers or commons I think your price will have to be low enough to get the average guy to buy them. You will be competing with all the other breweries with those styles of beers.

I would try for a 7 barrel system with a few fermentors and some ageing tanks (bright tanks). It is going to take you 8 hours to brew 50 gallons or 210, so you should try and make it worth your while. If you are undersized from the start you will be brewing all the time and making very little money.

Just my .02.
BW

As Nateo pointed out, how many fermentors you need/how much beer you are producing doesn't mean diddly squat if you are having a hard time moving it into consumers hands. I briefly entertained the idea myself a while ago, and after doing some research (Google nano brewery interviews) and the biggest obstacle you will find (as mentioned from those who do/did it) is getting your beer into restaurants, bars, and store shelves.

I would suggest doing some market research first. There could be a reason no one else attempted a nano in Cape Town.

Thanks guys... Maybe a little bit of background on brewing in Cape Town and South Africa.
Up to about 2 years ago we really had less than a hand full of micro- or nano breweries. A couple in the Natal Midlands, Mitchels in Knysna & Cape Town and Boston Breweries in Cape Town.
The South African beer market is dominated by 3 players: SAB Miller, Windhoek Breweries from Namibia and imported beers. (Mainly lagers)

About 2 years ago the beer scene started to pick up....
Mitchels closed their Cape Town brewery. Everything is shipped in from Knysna 300mi down the coast. They are going through some restructuring and getting a new investor according to rumours.
Boston is contract brewing for two other "breweries" / labels - Jack Black & Darling Beer. The latter bought their main recipe from another small scale brewer.
Paulaner has a brew pub here and supply to a very select few venues. Most of them owned by related companies.
Brewers & Union / Collective Sao Gabriel. They are a bunch of marketing pro's and really driving the beer revival in Cape Town. Unfortunately they import all their beers. 3 lagers and a weiss from Germany, as well as two Belgian strong beers.
In the last year the first proper small breweries started up (and they are doing rather well). First it was Napier Beer (100mi from Cape Town), then two small breweries in Montagu & Robertson (100-120mi from Cape Town) and in the last couple of months - Triggerfish Brewing. Triggerfish has by far the best beer of the lot in my opinion.

I guess our beer market is where the US was 10 years ago.
Our restaurant, fresh produce market and support of local & artisanal produce is growing tremendously.

We plan to run the whole setup with our day jobs. Focus on producing some of the best & unique beers in town. Hopefully we can manage to break even and create a "cult" following

 

[Nateo]

It's better to have demand outstrip supply. Beer isn't some widget you can warehouse forever. I would be reading everything you can about microbiological stability.

There is a brewery not far from me that started on a 10gal system. Yes, for their first year they've been brewing 10 gallons at a time. They're currently upgrading to a 10 barrel system, but 10 gallons got them off the ground. I'd bet any "pro" brewer would laugh in your face if you thought about doing 10 gallon batches, but they made it work and are doing well now.

 

[Crucial-BBQ]

Ah, it sounds like you are in the right area to introduce something new, and that you know a little bit about the scene in Cape Town. Go for it!

I am curious as to why are planning on doing American-style beers in what seems to be a European-style market? While I have never (yet) to visit an African country, I have travelled abroad. What I found is that beer typically follows local preferences for taste and style. Brew what you want, and who knows, a Californian Common could be a big hit, but I would suggest designing your beer with the locals in mind first. Maybe do a Cape Town Common, perhaps?

Then again, I read an interview of a guy who started a nano in some rinky-dink Mid-Atlantic/Southern state. You know, the kind of place where if it isn't Bud, it isn't right. Turns out his small town of a few thousand people really took a liking to his beer and supported what he was doing.

So, you never know.

 

[LordUlrich]

The discussion of size reminds me of more than one discussion i have seen on the nano brewery topic. Nano breweries have 2 advantages,
The first is limited risk, bigger tanks cost LOTS more, if you spend less you risk less, yet profit is less. The minimal risks also is because many nano brewers keep there full time jobs until they can support themselves with the brewery, typically with larger equipment. And while there is some loss with equipment upgrade stainless hold value quite well (plus from my research kegs are the biggest investment for a nano anyway, and you keep those)
The second is the opportunity to to build a customer base/loyalty and slowly expand. By growing slowly you only have 3 barrels of a new product to sell, rather than 10 barrels of something new.

Are you going to get rich nano brewing? - NO
Are many nano breweries successful, and expand to be much larger breweries- Yes, this has been done by several people before.

 

[Schalk79]

It's better to have demand outstrip supply.....

There is a brewery not far from me that started on a 10gal system. Yes, for their first year they've been brewing 10 gallons. They're currently upgrading to a 10 barrel system, but 10 gallons got them off the ground. I'd bet any "pro" brewer would laugh in your face if you thought about doing 10 gallon batches, but they made it work and are doing well now.

Demand being bigger than supply is what all the small guys are facing here. Not too bad a situation to be in I reckon...

Ah, it sounds like you are in the right area to introduce something new, and that you know a little bit about the scene in Cape Town. Go for it!

I am curious as to why are planning on doing American-style beers in what seems to be a European-style market?

We have a well established wine industry. Lately the New World styles and small scale niche wines have been doing very well.
When the focus is on high quality, small scale production and in the upper price brackets the products have been doing rather well & have developed quite a loyal following.

The American approach to Pale & India Pale Ales are doing very well in the UK (http://thekernelbrewery.com/), Australia, New Zealand & Japan. The guys who are brewing beers leaning towards a more hoppy flavour are getting good attention & positive feedback. Consumers like new & "sofisticated", especially if they know what is in the product..... Will we ever know what really goes into Millers, Bud, or Castle Lager?
We had the same thing with olive oil here. 5-7yrs ago people thought we were crazy making single variety oils & tasting it neat from a small glass.... But now the tasting method is the norm and more single variety oils are available & selling well. Educating consumers on the products is the most important concept. We'll have to do the same with non-standard beers here.

The discussion of size reminds me of more than one discussion i have seen on the nano brewery topic. Nano breweries have 2 advantages,
The first is limited risk, bigger tanks cost LOTS more, if you spend less you risk less, yet profit is less. The minimal risks also is because many nano brewers keep there full time jobs until they can support themselves with the brewery, typically with larger equipment. And while there is some loss with equipment upgrade stainless hold value quite well (plus from my research kegs are the biggest investment for a nano anyway, and you keep those)
The second is the opportunity to to build a customer base/loyalty and slowly expand. By growing slowly you only have 3 barrels of a new product to sell, rather than 10 barrels of something new.

Are you going to get rich nano brewing? - NO
Are many nano breweries successful, and expand to be much larger breweries- Yes, this has been done by several people before.

This is exactly the approach we want to try. Depending on the numbers we may very well upsize our 11gal system to 20gal, see how it goes, determine what beers work here and then upgrade to a bigger & appropriately sized system for our needs based on the market & brewing knowledge gained while running the frankenstein system

 

[luke2080]

While probrewer is rely the right place for this discussion i will give you a bit of guidance so you can answer the question. How much equipment you need is rely more of an economic\business decision than a beer question.
First you need to figure out how often you need to brew, (based on how much it costs you to stay in business, don't forget to pay yourself). Then based on how long each beer needs to sit in the fermenter you can figure out how many fermenters you NEED, more is better as you can brew more often. This might determine the types of beer you can brew, lagers require you have more fermenters as they take longer and cost more (in cooling costs) to brew.
Best of luck to you.

This is the mindset to take. I've read your other posts here, and you've done some of your market research. At the end of the day though, you still need to forecast - how many beers (pints/bottles, etc) do I plan to sell per week? What type of growth rate do I expect to see with good beer, good marketing, and good word of mouth?

This is the harder part with brewing. Your beer will probably take 6-8 weeks from brew day to ready for sale. Which means you need to build a pipeline for the public. Lets make a pretend model here (not sure what your process is) but lets say you let the beer sit in a primary tank for 2 weeks, then a brite tank for 6 weeks. (and lets pretend one tank holds your 1 BBL batch - if you were making 1 BBL at a time)

If you assume you will sell one brite tank worth of beer per week, and you want to run a "zero inventory" model, you would need 6 brite tanks for storage, and 2 fermenters, while brewing once per week. (Technically you could brew every day for a week, fill up all of your tanks, then worry about selling, distributing, and then brew once per week)

So it just becomes a math problem. Really your question is - how much beer do I think I can actually sell per week? Then it is - how much beer do I need to brew to fulfill that demand?

Maybe you get a deal/discount, and buy another tank to give you a bit more capacity. Or expand as you grow. But thats all you really need to know. None of us here, or at ProBrewer, can tell you specifically how many tanks you need. It depends on your process and your sales. (and how much room you have to hold inventory - for example, you could hold 1 month of inventory...this would change your equation a bit)

Good luck to you.

 

[Nateo]

The timeline for pro brewers is a lot shorter than for homebrewers, assuming you go with pro-type equipment and process.

With solid fermentation temp control and the ability to cold-crash, you can have regular-strength beers done in under a week. 4-5 days to ferment, 1-2 days in the bright tank. If you're force carbing it would be done then, but since you're bottle conditioning I'd plan on another week to carb it up. 6-8 weeks is how long a lot of Trappist breweries plan for their highest gravity beers. For what you're talking about making, you could crank them out pretty quickly.

 

[B-Dub]

If I ever get over to SA to surf J Bay; I will look forward to some great beer!!

BW

 

[davefleck]

On the timeline from brew to glass, white labs just released WLP090, fast fermenting, clean taste. I look forward to giving it a try

 

[B-Dub]

With solid fermentation temp control and the ability to cold-crash, you can have regular-strength beers done in under a week.

I would plan on 10 to 14 days per brew. In the past 10 days was the fastest turn I have done; with 14 days being a good time line for fermenting, cooling and transferring.

BW

 

[Pivzavod]

The American approach to Pale & India Pale Ales are doing very well in the UK (http://thekernelbrewery.com/), Australia, New Zealand & Japan. The guys who are brewing beers leaning towards a more hoppy flavour are getting good attention & positive feedback. Consumers like new & "sofisticated", especially if they know what is in the product..... Will we ever know what really goes into Millers, Bud, or Castle Lager?
We had the same thing with olive oil here. 5-7yrs ago people thought we were crazy making single variety oils & tasting it neat from a small glass.... But now the tasting method is the norm and more single variety oils are available & selling well. Educating consumers on the products is the most important concept. We'll have to do the same with non-standard beers here.


I agree with that. Seems you are trying to target people interested in GOOD beers, not people interested in JUST beers. Since its a lager dominated scene showing new products will be very beneficial to you. You should also consider making Cream Ale which is an American style. For some of the beers that you make you can certainly can claim to be the only place that sells them in all of Africa.