Starter and Overpitching question

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Bigsnake

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Been looking around for some information about this but couldn't seem to find it as it seems underpitching is the main concern and cons from overpitching are minimal or not even guaranteed. How much sediment from a starter would you have to pitch to be overpitching?

I'm in the process of building up a good sized starter for a big beer I'm brewing this weekend. Been doubling it up this week and about to take it to a gallon. This will be the most I've pitched (usually do 2 quarts) and am positive I'll be fine. I also decant the beer off the top and just pitch sediment), but I was wondering, in the future, how much sediment would I have to get to overpitch? What if I took a starter up to 2 gallons and pitched that sediment? And I know it depends on the gravity of the beer too so let's just do this for an average beer below 1060. Well, most of my beers are above that :eek:
 

ohiobrewtus

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It depends on the gravity of the beer that you're going to pitch it into as well as some other factors. I'd recommend using this calculator to find the proper starter size for your beer.
 
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Bigsnake

Bigsnake

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It depends on the gravity of the beer that you're going to pitch it into as well as some other factors. I'd recommend using this calculator to find the proper starter size for your beer.
I've seen it before but I am usually unaware of what to put yeast viability at. The Liquid/Dry yeast usually just give volume of starter but I'm sure there is a lot more that goes into it.

I played around with the Repitching from Slurry side and it seems to be around 8 to 10oz of slurry for the size of beer I'll be doing. Those numbers are close to what Papazian's book recommends as far as pitching slurry.
 
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Bigsnake

Bigsnake

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Well, I think I'm going to give this a shot. My starter is rolling again and it's up to a gallon.

Think I'll up it to 2 gallons tonight, let it goes through tomorrow, and chill it Saturday before I brew like I normally do to my starters. Decant and see how much sediment I get out. This is kind of fun building up a giant starter and seeing what happens come brew day.
 

Bob

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I've seen it before but I am usually unaware of what to put yeast viability at. The Liquid/Dry yeast usually just give volume of starter but I'm sure there is a lot more that goes into it.
Starting from slant (manufacturer's packaging) assumes 100% viability, modified by the production date of the slant. That viability will never be 100%; I just opened it up, it's using today's date, and it's telling me 97% viability. ;)

I'm wondering about your specific concern with viability. What's not to be aware of? If you're building a starter from a smack-pack, and the starter is active, your viability is damn near 100% - the yeasties are already off and running, and you're about to pour them into your beer. The best metaphor is the wort is gasoline and your starter is a match. Viability doesn't enter into it.

Or am I misunderstanding you?

Bob
 
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Bigsnake

Bigsnake

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...

I'm wondering about your specific concern with viability. What's not to be aware of? If you're building a starter from a smack-pack, and the starter is active, your viability is damn near 100% - the yeasties are already off and running, and you're about to pour them into your beer. The best metaphor is the wort is gasoline and your starter is a match. Viability doesn't enter into it.

Or am I misunderstanding you?

Bob
What if I harvested yeast from a primary and it's been sitting in my fridge for awhile? What would I put viability at for those yeast?
 

climateboy

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Now, I have a question about starters that relates to this...how do you factor in the volume of the starter to your overall batch? If you're an extract brewer like me, and you're topping up the wort to 5 gallons, and you make a 2 liter (or larger starter), is that considered part of the overall batch volume?
 

Bob

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What if I harvested yeast from a primary and it's been sitting in my fridge for awhile? What would I put viability at for those yeast?
A relatively safe Rule of Thumb is a 25% loss of viability for every seven days stored.

Best bet? Like eirktlupus wrote: Make a starter.

Now, I have a question about starters that relates to this...how do you factor in the volume of the starter to your overall batch? If you're an extract brewer like me, and you're topping up the wort to 5 gallons, and you make a 2 liter (or larger starter), is that considered part of the overall batch volume?
I don't pitch the entire starter. I wait until the starter has stopped "working" and let the slurry settle. I decant the "beer" and pitch the slurry according to Mr Malty's calculator. That way volumes don't go all wonky.

Cheers!

Bob
 

climateboy

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Ah, well, I guess I'll just have to RDWHAHB with the batch I just made with my first starter. Pitched 2 liters of starter along with the 5.25 gallons of wort. As you might imagine, took off like a rocket and blew out threw the airlock and all over the bucket lid. I don't think I should be concerned about diluted beer, do you?
 
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Bigsnake

Bigsnake

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Ah, well, I guess I'll just have to RDWHAHB with the batch I just made with my first starter. Pitched 2 liters of starter along with the 5.25 gallons of wort. As you might imagine, took off like a rocket and blew out threw the airlock and all over the bucket lid. I don't think I should be concerned about diluted beer, do you?
Not if you pitched 2 liters, I wouldn't worry. Now, I definitely will not be pitching my entire starter.

 
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Bigsnake

Bigsnake

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A relatively safe Rule of Thumb is a 25% loss of viability for every seven days stored.

Best bet? Like eirktlupus wrote: Make a starter.
I'm guessing as you double up the volume in your starter (because each thing of yeast I harvested is probably like 1oz of yeast so I definitely would want to build that up) and the yeast grow in population, then the viability would change? Would a good starter bring viability up into say the 90% area?

I always try to make a starter now. Last time I didn't make a starter I had a 60 hour lag time on my brew. Pitched one wyeast activator into a 1065 OG brew. The longest I had before that was about 30 hours lag in a 1090 OG Belgian.
 

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