Star Sans Dishwasher

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

otownpyle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
Location
Smyrna, GA
I was wanting to sanitize in my dish washer potentially. Anybody ever found a correct concentration for a dishwasher? I just washed my bottles in the washer and they're cleaner than they were when I got them... Thought it might be cool to sanitize in there too.. Didn't see any threads on this... Bad Idea?
 

danger831

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Messages
58
Reaction score
6
Location
Texas
they may already be sanitized how hot does your dish washer get ?
 

northernlad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
1,625
Reaction score
31
Location
NW
Dish machines are tempting for the convenience factor, but are a huge waste of energy and imperfect at thoughly reaching the inside of the bottle as the peg takes up a good part of the opening.
The best thing I ever did was get a Vinator. It takes less time, sanitizer and water than any other method.
 

Rick500

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
2,599
Reaction score
21
Location
KY
If your dishwasher gets hot enough for long enough, you won't need a cleaning agent.
 
OP
otownpyle

otownpyle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
Location
Smyrna, GA
My dishwasher gets hotter than a mofo. I keep the hot water heater pretty hot. Definitely gets hot enough where I cannot stick my hand under the faucet. I washed some bottles that were already delabeled b/c they had a residue on them from the oxygen based cleaner, I believe.

I don't have a peg to stick the bottles on. To clean i had to stick the bottles in between the humps ... It's a new washer and there aren't the traditional pegs sticking up that resemble "| | | |" but humps that are bigger than the neck of the bottles "^ ^ ^ ^"

I meant to get a vinator at the home brew shop when I was in Memphis this weekend. But being that I live in Mississippi 2 1/2 hrs away & homebrew is illegal here, I am out of luck getting one here this weekend w/o paying astronomical shipping.

If you guys think washing w/ hot ass water is good enough I might just go w/ that... Cause it's some hot ass water. Funny thing is that the price of the bill definitely does not reflect the temp. Moved from Memphis about 6 months ago and my bill is right at the same price as it was there. FTW

Thanks Guys!
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
33,775
Reaction score
12,825
Location
☀️ Clearwater, FL ☀️
I have been using my dishwasher for years without problem. My dishwasher has a "Hi-Temp Scrub" mode where it preheats the water to very hot temps. I read that someone on this forum with a similar dishwasher measured the temp of the water and I believe it was over 160. That will kill everything.

I've tried Starsan in the dishwasher. Foam was not an issue. However, after using the starsan I had fine white powder on everything in the dishwasher. I believe the starsan removed mineral deposits, or etched the plastic parts of the machine. I would not use starsan in the dishwhasher.
 
OP
otownpyle

otownpyle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
Location
Smyrna, GA
Exactly. Here is what you want to shoot for:

Ok cool. Next step is to get a thermometer some water from the faucet and see how hot it is... Been soaking bottles in oxyclean to delabel. I'll let you guys know in a few...
 
OP
otownpyle

otownpyle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
Location
Smyrna, GA
Just did the thermometer test and it's right at 141 degrees Fahrenheit which is right at 60.5 degrees Celsius... So by this chart sanitized in 5 minutes... So they're good to go after 30 minutes in the dishwasher... COOL thanks guys!
 

rcrabb22

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
717
Reaction score
25
Location
Illinois
...I meant to get a vinator at the home brew shop when I was in Memphis this weekend. But being that I live in Mississippi 2 1/2 hrs away & homebrew is illegal here, I am out of luck getting one here this weekend w/o paying astronomical shipping....
Not sure what you consider "astronomical." If you get a few more things you need (like ingredients for next brew) places like Austin Homebrew or Northern Brewer offer flat rate shipping and can equate to sales tax charges buying from a LHBS (if you don't live in the same state as the internet store).

I buy both local and over the internet depending on urgency of need, prices and product availabliity.
 

danger831

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Messages
58
Reaction score
6
Location
Texas
the water in your dishwasher is hotter than the faucet most of the dishwashers have a heater that heats the water to 160
 

Pezman1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
471
Reaction score
16
Location
Coppell
Here is what I do:

Remove any rinse aid like jet-dry from your machine.

I run the bottles in the dishwasher with PBW on the pots/pans setting and heat turned on.

Once the bottles have cooled, I remove them to the counter and spray the dishwasher tines with star san. I then use the vinator with starsan and quicky give the bottles one or two squirts, then set them back into the washer neck-down to drain while I transfer my beer to the bottling bucket.

This process is extemely quick, easy, uses a minimum of cleaner, and I've never had any issues with it.

the Starsan/vinator may actually be overkill, but it takes less than 10 minutes to do with 22 0z. bottles, and uses less than a quart of star-san. Cheap insurance ...

Pez.
 
OP
otownpyle

otownpyle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
Location
Smyrna, GA
Not sure what you consider "astronomical." If you get a few more things you need (like ingredients for next brew) places like Austin Homebrew or Northern Brewer offer flat rate shipping and can equate to sales tax charges buying from a LHBS (if you don't live in the same state as the internet store).

I buy both local and over the internet depending on urgency of need, prices and product availabliity.
Yeah I usually buy of NB, but I'm in MS. Not sure if it would be here by the time I bottled. I was just going to wing this one and buy one w/ my next kit. As for LHBS, that's kind of hard to get to considering Home Brewing is illegal in MS.. Closest LHBS is 3 hours away...
 
OP
otownpyle

otownpyle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
Location
Smyrna, GA
Here is what I do:

Remove any rinse aid like jet-dry from your machine.

I run the bottles in the dishwasher with PBW on the pots/pans setting and heat turned on.

Once the bottles have cooled, I remove them to the counter and spray the dishwasher tines with star san. I then use the vinator with starsan and quicky give the bottles one or two squirts, then set them back into the washer neck-down to drain while I transfer my beer to the bottling bucket.

This process is extemely quick, easy, uses a minimum of cleaner, and I've never had any issues with it.

the Starsan/vinator may actually be overkill, but it takes less than 10 minutes to do with 22 0z. bottles, and uses less than a quart of star-san. Cheap insurance ...

Pez.
Cool. Thanks man...last time I soaked the bottles in buckets but that took forever and was messy... I'm gonna get a vinator but it's not worth paying 8 bucks shipping for the 20 dollar item until I but some other stuff w/ it....
 
OP
otownpyle

otownpyle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
Location
Smyrna, GA
you might get a nice sanitized floor however.:D
HAHA yeah next time my tile needs cleaning & I'm fixing to bottle I'll just throw some star sans in the dish washer... Who needs a bucket w/ water? #Kill2BirdsWith1Stone :mug:
 

slowbie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
641
Reaction score
15
Location
Raleigh, NC
I always put a small amount of star san in my dishwasher when I sanitize bottles because it makes me feel better, and have never had any problems with foaming. I have been doing it this way for three batches now and have not yet had an infected bottle.
 
OP
otownpyle

otownpyle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
Location
Smyrna, GA
I always put a small amount of star san in my dishwasher when I sanitize bottles because it makes me feel better, and have never had any problems with foaming. I have been doing it this way for three batches now and have not yet had an infected bottle.
what do you consider a small amount?
 

northernlad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
1,625
Reaction score
31
Location
NW
For the record, and safety's sake, 160 degrees is NOT hot enough to kill everything. It is under the temperature to kill salmonella and the bare minimum to kill EColi. 180 is the temperature required by the health department for mechanical dishwashing without the use of a chemical sanitizer. 140 is the federal minimum for hot holding food and merely creates an environment that is not conducive to bacterial growth. Pastuerization is not sanitation.
Hot water is also does not clean without a detergent and over time, without a good handwashing will develop a buildup.
 
OP
otownpyle

otownpyle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
Location
Smyrna, GA
Huh ok. Yeah I'm pretty diligent about washing out after I drink out of the bottle & I soak them usually the night before too... I'm not going to be sticking the bottles in poo or raw chicken so I'm good there. I think the Vinator is the best route but I do like at minimum the wash in the dish washer b4 sanitizing...
 

slowbie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
641
Reaction score
15
Location
Raleigh, NC
For the record, and safety's sake, 160 degrees is NOT hot enough to kill everything. It is under the temperature to kill salmonella and the bare minimum to kill EColi. 180 is the temperature required by the health department for mechanical dishwashing without the use of a chemical sanitizer. 140 is the federal minimum for hot holding food and merely creates an environment that is not conducive to bacterial growth. Pastuerization is not sanitation.
Hot water is also does not clean without a detergent and over time, without a good handwashing will develop a buildup.
IIRC, Salmonella and E. Coli can't live in beer.
 

Yambor44

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
77
Location
Ocala Florida
Here is what I do:

Remove any rinse aid like jet-dry from your machine.

I run the bottles in the dishwasher with PBW on the pots/pans setting and heat turned on.

Once the bottles have cooled, I remove them to the counter and spray the dishwasher tines with star san. I then use the vinator with starsan and quicky give the bottles one or two squirts, then set them back into the washer neck-down to drain while I transfer my beer to the bottling bucket.

This process is extemely quick, easy, uses a minimum of cleaner, and I've never had any issues with it.

the Starsan/vinator may actually be overkill, but it takes less than 10 minutes to do with 22 0z. bottles, and uses less than a quart of star-san. Cheap insurance ...

Pez.
Not trying to split hairs, but do you cover them or turn them upside down when you sit them on the counter? Just wondering about any wild yeast or bacteria falling into them.
 

Pezman1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
471
Reaction score
16
Location
Coppell
Not trying to split hairs, but do you cover them or turn them upside down when you sit them on the counter? Just wondering about any wild yeast or bacteria falling into them.
Sorry if I was unclear. I pull the bottles out of the dishwasher and set them neck up on the counter . I then IMMEDIATELY use the vinator/starsan on them and return them to the dishwasher neck down after spraying the tines with star-san. Anything bad that happens to fall into the bottles during this time would be killed by the star-san.
I set the filled vinator in the sink first , so everything is in reach, ready, and done in 10 minutes or less. Pez.
 
Top