Star san VS Star san HB

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beerthirty

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I recently had to re-up on starsan and they only had Star san HB. the ingredient label had changed so percentages were not listed. when comparing it to the remaining Star san I had left, I noticed a darker color and much stronger acid smell from the HB. Any one have any information on this?
 
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beerthirty

beerthirty

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I e-mailed Five star chemical out of curiosity regarding this. Here is the reply.

Last Summer the State of California disallowed the sale of Star San and several other products in the State of California which were labeled as a Sanitizer as those products had not been approved by the State EPA as well as the Federal EPA for such labeling. While we took the steps necessary to again provide Star San as a labeled sanitizer within the State of California we took steps to provide a Star San Anionic Final Acid Rinse along the same lines as our product Saniclean, which pro brewers have used for years, much as Star San is used, but with a low foaming operation for high pressure automatic cleaning systems.
Saniclean, which is built along the same technological lines as Star San, has never been registered as a sanitizer, federally or at the state level. However, pro brewers know that when they use a Final Acid Rinse, especially an Anionic Acid rinse, they have put their equipment into an acidic state which is very unfriendly to the things they would not want to be there. Thus, although Saniclean carries no certifications or labeling indicating that it is a 'sanitizer', the pros who use it are well aware of the many advantages which Saniclean delivers as a Final rinse.
In like manner, Star San HB is presented to the market to be used as a Final Acid Rinse. Until the issue with the state is resolved, the approval of which is scheduled for this May, 2009, we cannot present Star San for sale in California as a sanitizer. In the mean time, by using Star San HB as your final rinse, after having cleaned with PBW or other alkali cleaner of choice, you will find, just as the pro's who use Saniclean do, that your equipment is left in an acid condition and is ready to brew and ferment without any concern that you will have anything remaining which you would not want to be present.
We apologize for any confusion arising from these circumstances and appreciate your loyal usage of Five Star products.
Cheers!

Jim Jennings
Five Star Chemicals
 

jpc

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I e-mailed Five star chemical out of curiosity regarding this. Here is the reply.

Last Summer the State of California disallowed the sale of Star San and several other products in the State of California which were labeled as a Sanitizer as those products had not been approved by the State EPA as well as the Federal EPA for such labeling.


:off:
Once again, Kooky Kalifornia takes the lead. Does every state have (or better yet, NEED) an EPA? Don't they have better things to do? Why is it that I pay nearly 10% in sales tax, as well as close to 10% in income tax, and this state is broke?

Sorry for the rant, but I can't stand the idiocy that is Kali.
 

bakins

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So, StarSan HB is the same thing that I've always used, just not labeled as a sanitizer??
 

RC0032

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SumnerH

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:off:
Once again, Kooky Kalifornia takes the lead. Does every state have (or better yet, NEED) an EPA? Don't they have better things to do?
I like that we have a testbed for laws at a smaller level before adopting them nationwide. Some are kooky, some work--better off trying them somewhere that's big enough to be somewhat representative (rather than in Maine or South Dakota or whatever) but smaller than the whole country.
 

Brewmasters Warehouse

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I find it amazing the lengths that people have to go to call something what it is without using one specific word. The response email could have been 1 sentence, but since everyone has to always CYA the response is 3 paragraphs.
 

jpc

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I like that we have a testbed for laws at a smaller level before adopting them nationwide. Some are kooky, some work--better off trying them somewhere that's big enough to be somewhat representative (rather than in Maine or South Dakota or whatever) but smaller than the whole country.
Trust me... Kali is NOT representative of the whole country. Nowhere near. And I'm in NorCal... SoCal is many times... uhhhh.... Well, let's just say, "more differenter" [ducks].
 

Thumper

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I find it amazing the lengths that people have to go to call something what it is without using one specific word. The response email could have been 1 sentence, but since everyone has to always CYA the response is 3 paragraphs.
Your response is too short, the CYA police are looking for you as I type. Take cover and edit quickly. LOL

I couldn't agree more with your statement. It is truly amazing what the lawyers have turned us into.
 

Brewsmith

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As a So Cal resident, I can say that what comes out of Sacramento is far from the average persons view of things. The state legislature has spent this state into the ground, and the people in charge come from districts so jerrymandered that they are virtually guaranteed a state office. The average people, regardless of of party or ideology are getting fed up with this crap. I have a feeling something big is going to happen soon with the state legislature. A special election is coming in May to try to paper over the billions that the state is in the hole, and I have a feeling that when the results come in, the idiots in Sacramento are going to crap in their pants when they realize they are tens of billions in the red.

I need a beer now...
 

maoru

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U.S.EPA/OPP Pesticide-Related Database Queries - NPIRS

You will find from this link that Star San is a registered pesticide with the US EPA. Pesticide!?! Microbes are unwanted, unwanted organisms are pests, Star San kills pests.

California is among several states which register their pesticides in addition to the registration required by the US EPA.

This has very little to do with lawyers, and very much to do with $$$. California makes a lot of money from pesticide registration fees. Also we want to protect our environment - there are many harmful pesticides that are not used in California.
 

rico567

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Personally, I like it that CA voluntarily acts as a "test bed" for, ah, "experimental" legislation. And that they are 2,000 miles away from here. OTOH, we all live with certain deleterious effects, such as the rogue CA CARB, which makes its own regs on cars regardless of the Federal EPA. Then there's the matter of texbooks, in which committees in a few large states (notably TX and CA) adopt a book, thus a few people on an adoption committee influence what sort of book all schools nationally may buy.

I could go on, but why bother? Californians are entitled to their own beliefs, certainly. Everybody has to believe in something.....and I believe I'll have a beer.
 

jaobrien6

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I was looking at the label today and my local shop, and saw that the Star San HB says 3 minute contact time on the label. So maybe it is a different formula?
 

bspisak

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I still don't know what the difference between "Star San" and "Star San HB" is. I assume the HB stands for Homebrew? As noted in the last post, the contact time on the HB label is 3 minutes while on the old bottle of Star San it is 1 minute.
 

Edcculus

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I still don't know what the difference between "Star San" and "Star San HB" is. I assume the HB stands for Homebrew? As noted in the last post, the contact time on the HB label is 3 minutes while on the old bottle of Star San it is 1 minute.
From the response, StarSan HB is similar to Sani Clean, which also requires a longer contact time. The low foaming characteristic of these products is due to the using less/different surfactant. The surfactant in regular Star San is what makes it so effective. Its also what allows you to mix only a half gallon to sanitize an entire 5 gallon fermenter due to the foam.
 

Jipper

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The HB was just a tag that Five Star put on Star San for us folk in California who had to ship it out of state. the contents of a Star San and a Star San HB are 100% the same. No difference between the two except one had HB on the end due to legal reasons. Five Star has since cleaned all that up ( no pun intended), and any HB labels you see are just left over from the Summer.
 

Brew-boy

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The HB was just a tag that Five Star put on Star San for us folk in California who had to ship it out of state. the contents of a Star San and a Star San HB are 100% the same. No difference between the two except one had HB on the end due to legal reasons. Five Star has since cleaned all that up ( no pun intended), and any HB labels you see are just left over from the Summer.
Exactly, when I spoke to John at 5 Star he told me the HB is just good old Star San with a different label for the Cal Dudes... Star San is Star San.
 
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