Star San Soak - Passivation?

[bbohanon]

So I went on the warpath against my beerstone/brown gunk build-up in my keggle BK this weekend. I know you are not supposed to use steel wool, etc. but when the tough get going, I break it out and go at it with some fine steel wool because it works.
I was curious if a Star San soak helps repassivate the surfaces again as my regiment includes a hot Oxy-Free soak which knocks alot of the surface beerstone off, scrub with green scrubbie and then back over those problem spots with some fine steel wool, then soak with warm Star San for a bit.
Never had an issue with rust or anything with this method now or in the past and not had any rust show up or anything, but figured I would ask others especially if the Star San is doing anything repassivation wise?

 

[stratslinger]

I've had some experience - though not quite what you're describing.

When I first got my keggles, I had a friend with a plasma cutter cut them for me. We didn't think to fill them with water first, so I would up with a little bit of slag inside the kegs. I was able to remove the slag, but started seeing rust spots. So, under the advise of a couple people here on HBT, I applied undiluted Star San with a green scrubby (and THICK gloves!) to the inside of the keg, let it sit for a little bit, then rinsed like crazy. Rust never returned.

It's possible that Star San in "normal" dilutions may have a similar effect - all I can say for certain is that it works when not diluted.

 

[bbohanon]

I've had some experience - though not quite what you're describing.

When I first got my keggles, I had a friend with a plasma cutter cut them for me. We didn't think to fill them with water first, so I would up with a little bit of slag inside the kegs. I was able to remove the slag, but started seeing rust spots. So, under the advise of a couple people here on HBT, I applied undiluted Star San with a green scrubby (and THICK gloves!) to the inside of the keg, let it sit for a little bit, then rinsed like crazy. Rust never returned.

It's possible that Star San in "normal" dilutions may have a similar effect - all I can say for certain is that it works when not diluted.

Good to know..I would assume in normal dilution, it still would have some helpful effects. If I start to see rust, I may just hit it all with some BKF as I know that will knock it down and repassivate the steel. I usually dont go ballistic on the beerstone like this but once a year and just did not have any on hand yesterday when the mood to clean it struck.

 

[decoleur]

FWIW,

I have found oxyclean/PBW hot soak will break down beer stone enough to wipe off with a green scrubby in less than an hour.

Also a little naptha soap on the bottom of a pot will keep it from getting black when your gas ari mix is off and even if it does it will also come right off. ( I just rub the bar of soap against the bottom with no moisture before a brew session)

Hope This Helps,

-decoleur

 

[WrkdbfGuy]

When I got my Brew Bucket from SS Brewtech, their instructions included the following:

Passivation
It’s a good idea to passivate your stainless steel equipment with an acid based solution. Filling the vessel with StarSan at 1oz per gallon of water or other acid passivation solution at the recommended strength and at a temperature of 70-80F for 20 minutes, followed by an air dry is all that is needed.

 

[jakenbacon]

Barkeepers friend will passivate SS as well and does a good job of puttin on a shine after a good PBW wash...

Edit: I guess that isn't really what you are asking though is it lol... Ya starsan will get er done!

 

[MaxStout]

When I got my Brew Bucket from SS Brewtech, their instructions included the following:

Passivation
It’s a good idea to passivate your stainless steel equipment with an acid based solution. Filling the vessel with StarSan at 1oz per gallon of water or other acid passivation solution at the recommended strength and at a temperature of 70-80F for 20 minutes, followed by an air dry is all that is needed.

Yikes! That's almost a pint of Starsan to passivate a typical 15 gallon BK.

This might be a more practical method.

 

[WrkdbfGuy]

Yikes! That's almost a pint of Starsan to passivate a typical 15 gallon BK.

This might be a more practical method.

Yes, I agree! The amount of Starsan they wanted me to use convinced me to just let the new Brew Bucket sit for several weeks - letting in passivate on it's own in air.

Bill

 

[SteelManCM]

I passivated my keg with a gallon of StarSan water. It sat upright for half an hour, then I laid it on its side, turning slightly every 20 minutes or so, until I had covered the entire inside. No rust, cleaned it nicely.

 

[bbohanon]

Sounds like I am good with the Star San Soak as I am about right on the money with that measurement.
I filled mine to the 5 gallon mark and just occasionally hosed around the sides of the rest of the BK as I was recircing through my pump as well.
I had only been hitting the bottom of the keggle with the fine steel wool so the sides were not the larger concern.
All set from the looks of it. I do need to get some more BKF though. Love that stuff.

 

[SteelManCM]

YES! and a 3 pack for $10.40? It almost buys itself!

(3 Pack) Bar Keepers Friend Cookware and Sink Cleaner - 12 Oz. Each

 

[fizgig]

do you need to soak? why not hit it with a spray bottle and let it air dry? Also, you could get some acid cleaner #5, I got some from a brewer friend. http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/Acid-5-Tech2.pdf

 

[pshankstar]

Resurrecting an old thread... I purchased a 20 gallon SS Brewtech Kettle and gave it a good cleaning last night. Now I am looking to do the passivation step. I was curious to know if I could fill the kettle about half way with the Star San/water solution (1oz/gallon) and then use a clean cloth and keep rubbing the solution on the area above. Would this achieve the same results?

I have also read that after you clean it and dry the equipment, natural passivation can occur. How long does this take? Hours, days, weeks, months, etc...

I have read BKF works to passivate SS equipment, but it is not recommended on the etching. So I do not want to go this route.

Thank you in advance everyone!

 

[BarleyPopBrewer]

Resurrecting an old thread... I purchased a 20 gallon SS Brewtech Kettle and gave it a good cleaning last night. Now I am looking to do the passivation step. I was curious to know if I could fill the kettle about half way with the Star San/water solution (1oz/gallon) and then use a clean cloth and keep rubbing the solution on the area above. Would this achieve the same results?

I have also read that after you clean it and dry the equipment, natural passivation can occur. How long does this take? Hours, days, weeks, months, etc...

I have read BKF works to passivate SS equipment, but it is not recommended on the etching. So I do not want to go this route.

Thank you in advance everyone!

Star San does not passivate SS. Star San is phosphoric acid which is not used to passivate. (Google phosphoric acid passivation and watch nothing come up). To passivate SS after welding, machining, etc you need harsh chemicals at high temps.

Stainless naturally passivates with oxygen instantly. Save your Star San and just give it a good scrub. The air will do the rest.

BKF is more of a pickling paste which can scrub the free iron particles if stainless does rust. Then the oxygen naturally passivates the material .

 

[Vandulus]

Star San does not passivate SS. Star San is phosphoric acid which is not used to passivate. (Google phosphoric acid passivation and watch nothing come up). To passivate SS after welding, machining, etc you need harsh chemicals at high temps.

Stainless naturally passivates with oxygen instantly. Save your Star San and just give it a good scrub. The air will do the rest.

BKF is more of a pickling paste which can scrub the free iron particles if stainless does rust. Then the oxygen naturally passivates the material .

Actually when you Google "phosphoric acid passivation" over 152,000 hits come up and numerous hits mention using phosphoric or citric acid as a substitutes for nitric. It looks like the after sale passivation is more for any areas where some of the underlying ferrous portions have been exposed.

 

[oujens]

Resurrecting an old thread... I purchased a 20 gallon SS Brewtech Kettle and gave it a good cleaning last night. Now I am looking to do the passivation step. I was curious to know if I could fill the kettle about half way with the Star San/water solution (1oz/gallon) and then use a clean cloth and keep rubbing the solution on the area above. Would this achieve the same results?

I have also read that after you clean it and dry the equipment, natural passivation can occur. How long does this take? Hours, days, weeks, months, etc...

I have read BKF works to passivate SS equipment, but it is not recommended on the etching. So I do not want to go this route.

Thank you in advance everyone!

I skipped the star san on my SS kettle. I soaked it in dish soap, wiped it down and then used the liquid BKF on the inside but did not go over the etchings. Seemed to work fine.

 

[BarleyPopBrewer]

Actually when you Google "phosphoric acid passivation" over 152,000 hits come up and numerous hits mention using phosphoric or citric acid as a substitutes for nitric. It looks like the after sale passivation is more for any areas where some of the underlying ferrous portions have been exposed.

I would read deeper. Most of the quick hits talk about phosphoric acid not passivizating but doing little more than cleaning. My knowledge is coming from years of industry experience.

 

[pshankstar]

Interesting thanks guys. I'm wondering why they would say to use Star San as a way to passivate their kettles if it doesn't do the trick?

 

[Drk93TT]

Honestly the easiest thing to do is clean with BKF with a soft sponge, scrub the crap out of everything but the etching marks, unless you don't like them.. then scrub those too. Cleans and passivates in one step.
When I first got my ss brew tech fermenter I used TSP, cleaned.. then PBW soak, then star san to "passivate" spent a long time cleaning the SOB. Fermented my first batch thinking how spotless the ferm. was... came out tasting like metal due to machining polish still on the surfaces and leaching into wort..... best part was having to dump the whole batch.. had about 6 ounces of hops wasted in that bad boy too. Cleaned the crap out of it with BKF, soaked with PBW, and sanitized... next batch was problem free..

 

[Bobby_M]

Interesting thanks guys. I'm wondering why they would say to use Star San as a way to passivate their kettles if it doesn't do the trick?

The simple answer is that they are wrong/misinformed.

 

[day_trippr]

In fairness, that was accepted as rote around this place for years...

Cheers!

 

[Bobby_M]

That is fair.