SSR and SSVR together

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danzig123

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How can a PID controlled SSR have a SSVR downstream before the load in order to quickly control boil overs with a rheostat? I dislike using the manual function and % adjustment on my PID. I'm pretty sure I have seen diagrams, but Auberins is saying that it is not possible?? Isn't this how high gravity sets theirs up??
 
The desirability of an SSR/SSVR combo has been obsoleted with the availability of the Auber EZBoil controllers (DSPR120 and DSPR300). This device functions like a PID (but uses a better control algorithm) for HLT or mash use, and like an SSVR in boil mode. The best of both worlds in a single box. The DSPR's are a better solution than an SSR/SSVR combo.

Brew on :mug:
 
I don't have room for another DIN cutout on my control panel face. Does anyone have the correct diagram for the SSR and SSVR combo?
 
You don't need another DIN cutout. Just replace the BK PID with an EZBoil (only works if you are using RTD temp sensors, as the EZBoils won't work with thermocouples.)

Brew on :mug:
 
I appreciate your help Doug, however I do not wish to use your option and have the parts - just wanting to make sure I'm wiring it correctly for what I do want to do, which is an SSR and SSVR combo with my normal PID.
 
You don't need another DIN cutout. Just replace the BK PID with an EZBoil (only works if you are using RTD temp sensors, as the EZBoils won't work with thermocouples.)

Brew on :mug:

Doug, you're killing me; I don't need to buy another gadget, but this is honestly a feature I've been wanting for a while and complaining didn't exist.

I've been brewing with my Auberins 2352 for about 3 years but dial control for the boil is just a no-brainer.

-I use a single PID and switch control between my HLT and my boil kettle. Switching to % output and trying to deal with hot break is a PITA- and I have a 3 way switch that lets me cut the power out to stop hot break volcanos, too.


The problem with the 3 way switch that kills power to the element via an additional contactor is that it slowly screws up the calibration / fuzzy-logic of the auberins 2352 ---the PID thinks that it's sending power to the element but all of a sudden the temp starts dropping instead of increasing and overtime the self-learning feature screws up your PID controller's calibration.

-If I could just turn a dial instead of actually cutting off the power, that would be ideal.



You're in Renton; I'm in Woodinville- do you use one of these in your brewery by any chance? -I'd love to see one in action!


Adam
 
Doug, you're killing me; I don't need to buy another gadget, but this is honestly a feature I've been wanting for a while and complaining didn't exist.

I've been brewing with my Auberins 2352 for about 3 years but dial control for the boil is just a no-brainer.

-I use a single PID and switch control between my HLT and my boil kettle. Switching to % output and trying to deal with hot break is a PITA- and I have a 3 way switch that lets me cut the power out to stop hot break volcanos, too.


The problem with the 3 way switch that kills power to the element via an additional contactor is that it slowly screws up the calibration / fuzzy-logic of the auberins 2352 ---the PID thinks that it's sending power to the element but all of a sudden the temp starts dropping instead of increasing and overtime the self-learning feature screws up your PID controller's calibration.

-If I could just turn a dial instead of actually cutting off the power, that would be ideal.



You're in Renton; I'm in Woodinville- do you use one of these in your brewery by any chance? -I'd love to see one in action!


Adam

I hate to admit this, but I haven't electrified my own brewery yet. I've got to get over my hesitation about drilling holes in my kettle. When I do electrify, I will be using an EZBoil controller to implement a recirculating e-BIAB system. I will also have the ability to switch between 120V and 240V power to my element, so that I can have XULWD when maintaining mash temps. Biggest decision I have is whether to build in the capability to control from a RaspberryPi (or similar.)

Brew on :mug:
 
I hate to admit this, but I haven't electrified my own brewery yet. I've got to get over my hesitation about drilling holes in my kettle. When I do electrify, I will be using an EZBoil controller to implement a recirculating e-BIAB system. I will also have the ability to switch between 120V and 240V power to my element, so that I can have XULWD when maintaining mash temps. Biggest decision I have is whether to build in the capability to control from a RaspberryPi (or similar.)



Brew on :mug:


I used to be super nervous about punching holes too... Long as you drill at a low speed w/ some high torque (and lube if you want the bit to last), it's super simple.

If your worrying about busting up you kettles, try a piece of scrap first. Or better yet, build a keggle! [emoji12]
 
I appreciate your help Doug, however I do not wish to use your option and have the parts - just wanting to make sure I'm wiring it correctly for what I do want to do, which is an SSR and SSVR combo with my normal PID.

I will reiterate that the Ezboil is the vastly superior way to get to what you want to do but I'll also say that you don't need a diagram. You are literally running a single element conductor through the SSR and then through the SSVR in series before hitting the element outlet.
 
Have you figured this out? This is actually exactly how I have my controller setup (SSR/SSVR working together). PM me if you would like.
 
I appreciate your help Doug, however I do not wish to use your option and have the parts - just wanting to make sure I'm wiring it correctly for what I do want to do, which is an SSR and SSVR combo with my normal PID.

If you haven't found it yet here ya go:

SSR_SSVR_serial.png
 
I appreciate your help Doug, however I do not wish to use your option and have the parts - just wanting to make sure I'm wiring it correctly for what I do want to do, which is an SSR and SSVR combo with my normal PID.

Consider this though, your method would use up more room on the control panel face which you just stated is a concern and require more hardware.... The ezboil does have a "knob" built in to it that quickly does exactly what your asking... At least look in to it before quickly discrediting it as it would be easier to install and actually use and would be about the same price overall.

honestly it sounds like your not really using the pid function at all but just want it to stay on at 100% and use the ssvr to actually adjust things so you might just be better off replacing it in the first place with a pot knob unless you just like the temp readout...
 
I hate to admit this, but I haven't electrified my own brewery yet. I've got to get over my hesitation about drilling holes in my kettle. When I do electrify, I will be using an EZBoil controller to implement a recirculating e-BIAB system. I will also have the ability to switch between 120V and 240V power to my element, so that I can have XULWD when maintaining mash temps. Biggest decision I have is whether to build in the capability to control from a RaspberryPi (or similar.)

Brew on :mug:
This really shocks me Doug!
I have to ask, how do you have experience with the ezboil then? ...As you know Ive gone from pid to ezboil to an arduino based brucontrol system myself and the brucontrol setup is my favorite so far... I simply have my bk pid set to stop at 209 (which the op here can easily do with a pid) to AVOID the possibility of a boilover and then I switch to 70% in manual mode which is another little box on my touchscreen which disables the pid mode when I touch it... if I see a boil over coming on I simple hit the "element power" button which kills the element main contactor/relay. then I stir and turn it back on.
 
I hate to admit this, but I haven't electrified my own brewery yet. I've got to get over my hesitation about drilling holes in my kettle. When I do electrify, I will be using an EZBoil controller to implement a recirculating e-BIAB system. I will also have the ability to switch between 120V and 240V power to my element, so that I can have XULWD when maintaining mash temps. Biggest decision I have is whether to build in the capability to control from a RaspberryPi (or similar.)

Brew on :mug:

I am surprised too. I would tell you if you can set your PID to cap the output to 25%, then you don't need the 240/120 relay hardware. I currently do this with my RIMS tube but in the future would just dynamically change the PID's max output, electrically inducing the same result. BruControl can do this manually or via the script (shameless plug!) but this can be done on most PIDs as you know.
 
To be fair from what Ive been told about the process of switching from automatic to manual mode in the auber pid and its 2 second pulse timing minimum (still not sure if thats true) I could see someone not wanting to go back and forth...
On my old mypins it was just a matter of holding the green button for three seconds and you would be transferred from pid to pwm mode or vs versa. and then just going up or down on % or setpoint and hitting enter.
 
The sole benefit and reason I have one for is I can let my boil kettle come up to 209 and stop and set off an alarm without having to stand there and babysit it to avoid a boil over... depending on ones brewing process and if they like to accomplish other tasks like getting hops out of the freezer and such this is a good advantage.
 
This really shocks me Doug!
I have to ask, how do you have experience with the ezboil then? ...As you know Ive gone from pid to ezboil to an arduino based brucontrol system myself and the brucontrol setup is my favorite so far... I simply have my bk pid set to stop at 209 (which the op here can easily do with a pid) to AVOID the possibility of a boilover and then I switch to 70% in manual mode which is another little box on my touchscreen which disables the pid mode when I touch it... if I see a boil over coming on I simple hit the "element power" button which kills the element main contactor/relay. then I stir and turn it back on.

I am surprised too. I would tell you if you can set your PID to cap the output to 25%, then you don't need the 240/120 relay hardware. I currently do this with my RIMS tube but in the future would just dynamically change the PID's max output, electrically inducing the same result. BruControl can do this manually or via the script (shameless plug!) but this can be done on most PIDs as you know.

Well, obviously I can't have first hand experience with the EZBoils. But I am pretty good at RTFMing (or should that be RingTFM?), and the EZBoil attracted me due to its method of operation and intuitive UI (during operation, not doing settings, none of the controllers have intuitive settings UI's.) Then when actual user reports started showing up (including yours Augie), they were universally positive, whereas there are numerous threads about problems getting good response from PID's. I am willing to learn from the experience of others. So, that's why I recommend EZBoils for folks looking for a non-computer controlled panel.

I suppose the desirability of switchable 120V/240V operation depends on the thermal time constant of the heating element compared to the pulse interval time that the controller provides. If the element time constant is much shorter, then operating at high voltage and low duty cycle would give thermal pulsing of the element. On the other hand, if the element time constant is longer, then thermal pulsing should be minimized. The thing I would want to avoid is localized hot spots that could denature enzymes during the mash. An element in the bottom of the kettle doesn't see the same kind of flow that an element in a RIMS tube does. Plus, it just might be fun to experiment with, since it doesn't cost a lot to add to a design (never underestimate the geek/bling factor.)

As far as my designs go, a number of them have been successfully implemented, and I even have a repeat request from a builder for a new design. I put my designs out where other folks can critique them, and if someone points out a weakness (a relatively rare occurrence), I will incorporate their feedback in future designs.

Brew on :mug:
 
Makes sense and agreed.[emoji106]

I think a cycle time of 2 secs should be ok but 1 would be better if the 25% max output time is on. WRT bling factor, yes this is true but I have found it is possible to arc fault a a relay when switching from 240-120 with the output on. Obviously this is relay model dependent, but the one I use is rated for 30A both NO and NC. So sometimes bling comes with unexpected demons.
 
Brand me old school, but I saw no reason for a PID in mine, 0-22 amps at the twist of the wrist.

The EZboil gives you the same knob twist with the addition of a temperature based limiter (to auto kill any boilover situation), a digital thermometer, and a timer. The price difference is negligible especially if you count the meter.
 
The EZboil gives you the same knob twist with the addition of a temperature based limiter (to auto kill any boilover situation), a digital thermometer, and a timer. The price difference is negligible especially if you count the meter.

Yep, nice unit...I'd definitley use one of those if I was building a new panel.
 
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