Squeezing grain bags

[msarro]

In some recipies I've seen people warn "Do not squeeze the specialty grain bags after steeping!" Then in other recipies, it says to squeeze them out. Still others say to rinse them with hot water (I'm guessing thats what sparging is? I'm still new and the wikipedia article didn't help a lot).

Is there a single right or wrong way? Are there benefits/detriments to doing it one way or the other?

 

[MalFet]

Rinsing a steeping bag with hot water is somewhat akin to sparging, but I wouldn't call it that because most people talk about sparging in relationship to a mash. Steeping grains is great for adding some complex flavors to an extract batch, but it's certainly not mashing.

I would do what the recipe says. Some people are concerned with tannin extraction from squeezing the bag, and other people say that's not really possible. The important thing, though, is that the recipe designers are making the assumption that you are going to follow their instructions, and if you don't you'll end up with something other than what they intended.

 

[two_hearted]

I used to be a squeezer. My beer also used to taste like pvc pipe and melting plastic. Don't squeeze. It made a big difference in flavor for me.

I never trust the sheet of instructions that come with a kit other than hop addition times. I've seen some pretty bad advice in the past from kits. I switched to listening to John Palmer and these forums for all of my advice. My beer is WAY better now.

 

[kmk1012]

I normally follow the recipe, so far for me squeezing the bag hasen't hurt any batches yet. I have changed my process to do sort of a sparge now, I put the grains into a perforated bucket and trickle sparge wather through it. This has greatly helped my efficiency. P.S. I'm a BIABer

 

[MalFet]

I never trust the sheet of instructions that come with a kit other than hop addition times. I've seen some pretty bad advice in the past from kits. I switched to listening to John Palmer and these forums for all of my advice. My beer is WAY better now.

Why are you buying kits from people you don't trust?

I certainly take your point, but there are so many solid kit designers out there that it seems silly to buy one that's junk. Certainly it's good to learn more and more, but I would want to understand how to compensate properly for any changes that I was making to a recipe before I made them. If a recipe calls for squeezing a grain bag, for example, you could always not squeeze it but add more grains.

And why do you suspect that squeezing the bag caused your beer to taste like PVC?

 

[Skarekrough]

I'll hang them to dry from a handle on the cupboard over a pyrex cup for awhile before I get to squeezing them.

Never saw or tasted the harm in squeezing them with sanitized implements to get the most out of it.

 

[two_hearted]

Why are you buying kits from people you don't trust?

I certainly take your point, but there are so many solid kit designers out there that it seems silly to buy one that's junk. Certainly it's good to learn more and more, but I would want to understand how to compensate properly for any changes that I was making to a recipe before I made them. If a recipe calls for squeezing a grain bag, for example, you could always not squeeze it but add more grains.

And why do you suspect that squeezing the bag caused your beer to taste like PVC?

This was when I first started out about 5 years ago. A group of friends and I brewed kits (extract with specialty grains) from wherever we could find them, LHBS/onlne, and had mixed results. We always squeezed every drop out of the bag to get our precious beer. I suspected we were releasing tannins and even asked on these forums later on. Someone suggested I was squeezing the bag.

Then I improved my methods, let the bags drip dry and eventually switched to all grain. I wasn't buying kits from people I didn't trust. I was just getting my first couple kits from wherever as I didnt know squat. Every info sheet had contradicting info though.

I now have a great LHBS that sells great extract kits and grain.

 

[MalFet]

This was when I first started out about 5 years ago. A group of friends and I brewed kits (extract with specialty grains) from wherever we could find them, LHBS/onlne, and had mixed results. We always squeezed every drop out of the bag to get our precious beer. I suspected we were releasing tannins and even asked on these forums later on. Someone suggested I was squeezing the bag.

Then I improved my methods, let the bags drip dry and eventually switched to all grain. I wasn't buying kits from people I didn't trust. I was just getting my first couple kits from wherever as I didnt know squat. Every info sheet had contradicting info though.

I now have a great LHBS that sells great extract kits and grain.

Yeah, I've certainly heard the claim that squeezing releases tannins. I haven't done any first hand research on the matter, but it doesn't sit right with what relatively little chemistry training I have. Do you have any more specifics you can point me towards? Based on my understanding of solubility, a little bit of mechanical pressure shouldn't make a difference. Temperature, pH, and even water concentration, certainly, but I'm not sure about squeezing. But, maybe there's a mechanism at play that I'm not understanding. I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise if I saw some good evidence, but I am starting to suspect this might be a myth.

I'm with you on the contradicting info. It is certainly confusing. As long as they're real kits from real brewshops, though, I don't suspect they are recommending bad practices. And if people don't know what they're doing and change up a recipe just because Jamil said so, it can lead to disappointing results. I had a friend who brewed a kit recently but, after hearing that full boil was better, managed to produce something that was way too bittered. It's not that full or partial boil is inherently better than the other, but if you do other than what the recipe designers are expecting you might get some lousy beer. The recipe was spot on, but he changed it up in a way that the recipe producers couldn't expect.

 

[two_hearted]

Yeah, I've certainly heard the claim that squeezing releases tannins. I haven't done any first hand research on the matter, but it doesn't sit right with what relatively little chemistry training I have. Do you have any more specifics you can point me towards? Based on my understanding of solubility, a little bit of mechanical pressure shouldn't make a difference. Temperature, pH, and even water concentration, certainly, but I'm not sure about squeezing. But, maybe there's a mechanism at play that I'm not understanding. I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise if I saw some good evidence, but I am starting to suspect this might be a myth.

All of my info is second hand from the internet (HBT users). All I know is that I stopped and had better results. Could very well be that I began using fresher ingredients, better techniques, more controlled temps, etc. Maybe the tannins were just a scapegoat for bad technique.

 

[MalFet]

All of my info is second hand from the internet (HBT users). All I know is that I stopped and had better results. Could very well be that I began using fresher ingredients, better techniques, more controlled temps, etc. Maybe the tannins were just a scapegoat for bad technique.

Sure thing. I certainly don't mean to paint you as a purveyor of superstition or anything...I apologize if it came off that way. Our collective knowledge around here is such a fabulous hodgepodge and there's nothing wrong with that, but the tannin thing has me curious right now.

I found a relatively simple tannin analysis protocol on the UC-Davis website, but it involves a spectrophotometer. Anybody have access to one, or know of a contractor who will do it for fee?

 

[EoinMag]

The BIAB technique which a lot of people are now using for all-grain advocates squeezing the bag and it is to no detriment to the beer. It appears squeezing is not a problem.