squeezing grain bag is bad?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

cheschire

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
182
Reaction score
1
Location
BC Canada
when picking up my last batch of grains for a PM a couple days ago, the clerk and I got into talking about how tiring it is to hold the grain bag and let it all drip out and I told him that squeezing it makes it quicker. He was like "no no never do that!" but he didnt know why. Is it a bad thing to do to speed things up a little or are my beers going to taste a whole lot better when I stop squeezing out the wort from the grains?
 

Tiber_Brew

It's about the beer.
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,541
Reaction score
276
Location
Upper Peninsula
If you're concerned about time, you could put the bag in a smaller container on the side while you do other things, then add the contents of the container to the boiling wort after it's drained more.
 
OP
C

cheschire

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
182
Reaction score
1
Location
BC Canada
I see. Now that you mention it, (as I drink a homebrew) I can taste them tannins in comparison to one that isnt squeezed.

No squeezing for Me!
 

Frodo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
1,074
Reaction score
40
Or hang the grain bag on a cabinet handle (or other suitable hook like thingy) above the brew pot.
 

maxamuus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
865
Reaction score
67
Location
Utah
Dumb question i suppose but what is tannins ? Still leaning the ropes...

Brewed first batch yesterday and it said DO NOT SQUEEZE GRAIN BAG but i did wonder why?

Thanks in advance!

Frodo - Love Nevada City. Got a growler around the house somewhere from a brewery around there. Cant remember the name and its been a while, but i remember it as a good beer.
 

Austinhomebrew

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
2,332
Reaction score
78
DO NOT squeeze the grain. Major taste improvement if you do not squeeze. When you squeeze you release a lot ot tannins into the beer. its like intentionally adding coffee grains to your coffee. It will make the beer really astringent.

Forrest
 

maxamuus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
865
Reaction score
67
Location
Utah
DO NOT squeeze the grain. Major taste improvement if you do not squeeze. When you squeeze you release a lot ot tannins into the beer. its like intentionally adding coffee grains to your coffee. It will make the beer really astringent.

Forrest
Yep, it was a AHS kit and it said do not squeeze so i resisted the urge.

PS. Not to hyjack the thread, but was happy with my brew kit and brew you folks sent.
 

Tiber_Brew

It's about the beer.
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,541
Reaction score
276
Location
Upper Peninsula
Dumb question i suppose but what is tannins ? Still leaning the ropes...

Brewed first batch yesterday and it said DO NOT SQUEEZE GRAIN BAG but i did wonder why?

Thanks in advance!
It's a polyphenol, and it gives your beer an astringent bitterness to it. It's found in leaves, grapes, husks, etc.
 

Frodo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
1,074
Reaction score
40
Frodo - Love Nevada City. Got a growler around the house somewhere from a brewery around there. Cant remember the name and its been a while, but i remember it as a good beer.
:off: Maybe the Stone House? I just moved here a year ago, but that used to be a brewery in town I think - out of business now - and it's a friggin awesome building that would make a great brew-pub. Too bad I don't have $1.5 million just to start.
 

senorswiss

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
73
Reaction score
1
Location
Indiana
So what I did last time (never researched it, but seemed like a logical thing to do) was to kind of sparge the grain bag with fresh water over the pot and let that run in. I mean, I would have to add more plain water to the primary anyway, as I am doing partial boils, so I figured this was at least somewhat better and I didn't have to hold the bag forever.

Someone feel free to slap me on the wrist if for some reason that's a bad idea. :)
 

51mmz0rz

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
I think its fine to rinse the grain bag...but not too much, for the same reason as squeezing. I supposed it would be like oversparging, and lead to possible tannins.

Doesn't sound like you did that though, your arm would probably get tired before that happened. On that note, I find the bag to be pretty heavy...I'm lazy and don't like lifting it...so you can try rising it after putting it in a colander over a bowl or something, then just let it sit while things come up to a boil.

Also, I like to use the "dryness" and puckering of your mouth after drinking some cranberry juice as a reference for astringency. Just another example to help drive that one home.

-Brian
 

senorswiss

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
73
Reaction score
1
Location
Indiana
I think its fine to rinse the grain bag...but not too much, for the same reason as squeezing. I supposed it would be like oversparging, and lead to possible tannins. [...]

-Brian
You're right, I attempted not to rinse it too much - perhaps a cup or two of water total. I didn't mention that the rinse water was room temperature.
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Crap, well, i squeezed out the bag for my current brew (instructions didn't say not to). it is a double IPA. Will let you know how it turns out in another 4 weeks or so.
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,288
Reaction score
3,725
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
There's been some tests that have disproved the whole "don't squeeze the grain bag, because you will leech tannins" idea. I think there's even been a couple experiments on here detailed in threads. I think it's been pretty well shot down as one of those "old school" beliefs, that turn out to have little effect.

In fact if you are doing AG "Brew in a Bag" you are encouraged to squeeze the grain bag. They even showed it on basic brewing recently, the took a ladder with a hook attached, hung the grain bag, and twisted the hell out of it to drain every ounce of precious wort out of bag of grain.

This should launch as an mp-4

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbv01-16-10cornpils.mp4

So is that's the case, that it is "OK" to do in AG Brew in the bag, then why would it really be bad in extract with grains brewing?

I wouldn't worry about it.

From BYO, MR Wizard;

The two most influential factors affecting the extraction of tannins from malt into wort are pH and temperature. All-grain brewers are very careful not to allow wort pH to reach more than about pH 6 during sparging because tannin extraction increases with pH. In all-grain brewing wort pH typically rises during the last stages of wort collection and is one of the factors letting the brewer know that wort collection should be stopped.....

Temperature also affects tannin extraction. This relationship is pretty simple. If you don’t want to run the risk of getting too much tannin in your wort, keep the temperature just below 170° F.

This is where the answer to your last question begins. You ask whether steeping and sparging released "unwanted tannins" in your beer. For starters, all beer contains tannins. Some tannins are implicated in haze and some lend astringent flavors to beer.

The type most homebrewers are concerned about are those affecting flavor. In any case, it is up to the brewer to decide if the level of tannins in their beer is too high. The (in)famous decoction mash is frequently recommended when a brewer is in search of more malt flavor. Decoction mashes boil malt and — among analytical brewers who are not afraid of rocking the boat with unpopular ideas — are known to increase the astringent character associated with tannins. In general I wouldn’t consider 170° F dangerously high with respect to tannin extraction. However, if you believe your beers may suffer because of too much astringency, consider adjusting your steep pH and lowering the temperature a few degrees.
 

Tiber_Brew

It's about the beer.
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,541
Reaction score
276
Location
Upper Peninsula
There's been some tests that have disproved the whole "don't squeeze the grain bag, because you will leech tannins" idea. I think there's even been a couple experiments on here detailed in threads. I think it's been pretty well shot down as one of those "old school" beliefs, that turn out to have little effect.

In fact if you are doing AG "Brew in a Bag" you are encouraged to squeeze the grain bag. They even showed it on basic brewing recently, the took a ladder with a hook attached, hung the grain bag, and twisted the hell out of it to drain every ounce of precious wort out of bag of grain.

This should launch as an mp-4

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbv01-16-10cornpils.mp4

So is that's the case, that it is "OK" to do in AG Brew in the bag, then why would it really be bad in extract with grains brewing?

I wouldn't worry about it.

From BYO, MR Wizard;
I see. Now that you mention it, (as I drink a homebrew) I can taste them tannins in comparison to one that isnt squeezed.

No squeezing for Me!
Seems we have conflicting data here. It might come down to personal experience your case. I suppose that if you notice an undesirable consequence, stop doing it.
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,288
Reaction score
3,725
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
Seems we have conflicting data here. It might come down to personal experience your case. I suppose that if you notice an undesirable consequence, stop doing it.
I've come to notice that what most new brewers attribute to "tannins" turns out to be just green beer, as does self diagnosis of diacetyl, autolysis, and some of the other things listed as "off flavors." When you push the brewer further and find out the age of the beer, you find out that the beer is really young, usually younger than the three weeks the we recommend as a minimum for a beer to lose it's green-ness.

I have come to take 99% of the self diagnosis on here with a grain of salt. Just because someone declares that they taste a certain thing, doesn't mean 1) it IS a certain thing, 2) doesn't mean that it isn't greeness masking itself as an off flavor, 3)The person doesn't know what he's talking about and is calling something one-thing when it really is something else.

Again, how come it is ok in AG brew in a bag, and not in extract with grains?
 

glenn514

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Messages
1,428
Reaction score
403
Location
Marengo
Again, how come it is ok in AG brew in a bag, and not in extract with grains?
Excellent question! I DO NOT have the answer, but I do squeeze the grain bag while brewing an extract kit with specialty grains. I want ALL the wort I can possibly get...and wringing it out of the steeped grains seemed logical.

I have not noticed ANY off-tastes in any of my brews thus far. I will continue to gently squeeze the wort out of the grains until Judgment Day or someone has a DEFINITIVE answer.

glenn514:mug:
 

osagedr

Recovering from Sobriety
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
2,512
Reaction score
123
Location
Winnipeg
But how do you know it was that and not some other issue, like sanitization, and bad recipe, or any number of other factors, including just not aging them long enough?
I don't, Revvy. I have been making (and judging) wine for awhile so feel like I have an idea of what the presence of additional tannins does to flavour. I'm thinking in particular of a 7B extract with specialty grains I did early on where I squeezed the hell out of the bag. I actually like the beer, but compared to a commercial version the tannins seem excessive (a "sharper" flavour). You are right, I could be blaming the bag squeeze based on "conventional wisdom" for another problem. The only way to know for sure would be a side-by-side comparison.
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,288
Reaction score
3,725
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
Excellent question! I DO NOT have the answer, but I do squeeze the grain bag while brewing an extract kit with specialty grains. I want ALL the wort I can possibly get...and wringing it out of the steeped grains seemed logical.
I think the answer is found in these two quotes.

From BYO- Mr Wizard.

Temperature also affects tannin extraction. This relationship is pretty simple. If you don’t want to run the risk of getting too much tannin in your wort, keep the temperature just below 170° F.
And from here; http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11694

From the Australians who pretty much came up with Brew In a Bag;

The bag must 'line' the kettle and the 'Swiss Voille' material be used for guaranteed results. Tannin extraction is not an issue no matter how hard you squeeze the bag as temperatures are below that at which tannin extraction occurs.
From Here- http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?p=30

Tannins And Astringency

If you are worried about squeezing your bag too much or crushing too fine, relax! Astringent beers do not come from finely crushed or squeezed husks but come rather from a combination of high temperatures and high pH. These conditions pull the polyhenols out of the husk. The higher your pH and the higher temperature you expose your grain to, the worse the problem becomes. Any brewer, traditional or BIAB, should never let these conditions arrive. If you do allow these conditions to arrive, then you will find yourself in exactly the same position as a traditional brewer. Many commercial breweries actually hammer mill their grain to powder for use in mash filter systems because they have control of their pH and temperatures. This control (and obviously expensive complex equipment) allows them non-astringent beers and “into kettle,” efficiencies of over 100%.
So if you are not steeping any grains BIAB or Extract W/grains, tannins should not be an issue, and squeezing anything should be fine.

I tend to think this whole "don't squeeze the bag" thing was another "extrapolation" that someone once made as a comparison to tea bags, and like so many other things that turn out to be busted myths (Like Hot Side Aeration) it keeps getting passed around with very little actually validity.

I think that Basic Brewing/BYO may be due to doing another one of their joint experiments. There was some comments on youtube where James posted the basic brewin BIAB episode I referenced above.

Personally if you want to avoid it, do so...obviously it can't hurt NOT to squeeze the bag (though when I BIAB I am going to continue to squeeze the heck out of mine till I am proved wrong in my own experience.)

But, if you do squeeze, then don't panic, there is enough cases mentioned in ALL the "squeeze" threads of folks doing it and having no issues, to assume that you have a 50/50 shot or more of your beer turing out OK.

I've said it a million times, our beer is hardier than must new brewers give it credit. It tends to turn out OK, no matter what we do to it.
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,288
Reaction score
3,725
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
I don't, Revvy. I have been making (and judging) wine for awhile so feel like I have an idea of what the presence of additional tannins does to flavour. I'm thinking in particular of a 7B extract with specialty grains I did early on where I squeezed the hell out of the bag. I actually like the beer, but compared to a commercial version the tannins seem excessive (a "sharper" flavour). You are right, I could be blaming the bag squeeze based on "conventional wisdom" for another problem. The only way to know for sure would be a side-by-side comparison.
But wine and beer judging and tasting (just like making tea) are two different animals. So it's really hard to extrapolate one from the other. Now if you said you were a bjcp trained judge, I might give it more weight.

It's like blaming extract as being worse than AG brewing, basing this purely on the first brews they made, before they new anything about late extract addition, temp control, better sanitization, full volume boils, not rushing the process, or any other things that we gain with experience. They often blame the extract as sucking, rather than admitting that when they started out, they sucked at brewing. And that if they go back and brew a kit beer using all the insights they gained from experience, they might just turn out a better extract beer, than when they were noobs.

There may be other issues that caused what you experienced.

*shrug*

Like I said above....If people want to avoid squeezing, fine (just know that there is very little difference between a BIAB brew and and Extract w/grains brew, and we are encouraged to squeeze every ounce of the precious wort out of our granbags as possible.;) )

My answer goes back to the OP, if you do happen to squeeze, don't panic and automatically assume you have ruined your beer. Plenty of folks are squeezing theirs all the time with no issues.

It's just one of those preference things. :mug:
 

osagedr

Recovering from Sobriety
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
2,512
Reaction score
123
Location
Winnipeg
Believe me, I'm very happy to learn from a superior brewer that squeezing isn't a big deal. I hadn't read your post when I added mine to the thread, so I wasn't trying to make a "Even though Revvy says it doesn't matter I believe I wrecked my beer" post.

As someone who will be going AG within a few weeks, I'm really interested to hear whether you think there are implications of this for the sparge process. I've read bits and pieces about getting excess tannins while sparging if the correct procedures are not followed--do you have any advice in that regard?
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,288
Reaction score
3,725
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
Believe me, I'm very happy to learn from a superior brewer that squeezing isn't a big deal. I hadn't read your post when I added mine to the thread, so I wasn't trying to make a "Even though Revvy says it doesn't matter I believe I wrecked my beer" post.

As someone who will be going AG within a few weeks, I'm really interested to hear whether you think there are implications of this for the sparge process. I've read bits and pieces about getting excess tannins while sparging if the correct procedures are not followed--do you have any advice in that regard?
I think the issues with regards to tannins in allgrain, STILL are an issue having to do with PH and Temps of the grain.

Mr Wizard/BYO again;

My view on the conventional rule about keeping the temperature of infusion and step mashes below 170 ºF (77 ºC) makes sense when you consider what happens to the mash during wort separation. As the wort gravity drops, the pH of the wort flowing from a mash bed increases, and with the increase in pH, the solubility of polyphenols increase. With this, you run the risk of getting a grainy flavor if you have high pH and low gravity runnings combined with high temperature.
 

jjones17

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
617
Reaction score
15
Location
Nanaimo, BC, Canada
I think the answer is found in these two quotes.



And from here; http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11694

From the Australians who pretty much came up with Brew In a Bag;



From Here- http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?p=30



So if you are not steeping any grains BIAB or Extract W/grains, tannins should not be an issue, and squeezing anything should be fine.

I tend to think this whole "don't squeeze the bag" thing was another "extrapolation" that someone once made as a comparison to tea bags, and like so many other things that turn out to be busted myths (Like Hot Side Aeration) it keeps getting passed around with very little actually validity.

I think that Basic Brewing/BYO may be due to doing another one of their joint experiments. There was some comments on youtube where James posted the basic brewin BIAB episode I referenced above.

Personally if you want to avoid it, do so...obviously it can't hurt NOT to squeeze the bag (though when I BIAB I am going to continue to squeeze the heck out of mine till I am proved wrong in my own experience.)

But, if you do squeeze, then don't panic, there is enough cases mentioned in ALL the "squeeze" threads of folks doing it and having no issues, to assume that you have a 50/50 shot or more of your beer turing out OK.

I've said it a million times, our beer is hardier than must new brewers give it credit. It tends to turn out OK, no matter what we do to it.
I know what you mean about ideas that get blown out of proportion based on a laymans experiences being recounted as fact. This happens ALL the time, and we have so many HUGE groups that found their whole ideal systems on such impossible 'urban myths'.... otherwise known as fairy tales. IE: "I know it is true because I feel it is". I could expand on that but I would probably make enemies, and I am slightly off topic.

Anyway, good on you to take the time to post some references on the topic. I really appreciate it, as I am solely a BIAB with 10 min sparge/mashout. This method has been working very well for me. I will try squeezing my grain bag on my next batch of house ale. I was always frustrated by being left holding the bag :)
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,288
Reaction score
3,725
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
Anyway, good on you to take the time to post some references on the topic. I really appreciate it, as I am solely a BIAB with 10 min sparge/mashout. This method has been working very well for me. I will try squeezing my grain bag on my next batch of house ale. I was always frustrated by being left holding the bag :)
I think the only way to prove it is to prove it to ouselves, and maybe by brewing identical batches (I do a lot of 2.5 gallon comparison batches even brewing on the same day)

If I were conducting the experiment I would brew 3 types of beers One batch BIAB (or extract w/ grains) squeezing and not squeezing but brewing the comparrison batches on the same day so they won't be aging at different rates.

I would do 3 beers of varying degrees of crystal or roasted malts.

1) Lager or cream ale, not a lot of crystal malts.

2) Amber ale or IPA, something with some roasted/crystal malts.

3) A stout or something with a high degree off those types of malts.

Then I would brew 2 2.5 gallon batches of each doing the comparison batches on the same day....pitching identical yeast and and making all the other variable the same, except that you squoze one and not the other. Then I would primary them for the same amount of time, and bottle condition them for at least 4, if not 6 weeks, perhaps sampling one of each at 2 weeks, knowing that they will be green and un carbed more than likely.
 

schmagy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
109
Reaction score
2
Location
wisconsin
I started brewing with BIAB, and have since moved on, however my first three AG brews I Squeezed. After a horrified look on the face of my LHBS and dire warnings, i was positive i could taste all kinds of off flavor astringency, which was all in my head. I was too hard on my own beer, and was overeager drinking my brews 11 days out of the fermenter.

Internet research turned up mountains of "no, your beer will suck" and very little from those who had actually tried it, and every experienced brewer i asked admitted they had not tried it and could not describe the taste effect it would produce despite being adamant it would destroy the beer.

At the end of the day I made fine beer! Tasted Great! and I got nearly 90% efficiency..... I am confident there is a great deal of chicken little going on around this topic with lots of anecdotal evidence and VERY thin empirical evidence. I would be much more concerned about sparge ratios and water chemistry than a light squeeze.

Could I have made better beer without the squeeze? Possibly. however i will say this with utmost confidence:
The actual taste difference between squeezing and no squeeze is pretty minor, especially since those likely to use this method are going to be newer AG brewers who have likely not eliminated or tinkered with the myriad of other variables ( like water chemistry) and are using this method because they have not yet assembled their desired gear. Try it and see what YOU think. At worst you will have beer that is pretty good but could improve.
 

schmagy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
109
Reaction score
2
Location
wisconsin
FYI, the method I finally settled on was a two kettle method that worked very well. Mashing in my 8.5 gal ss Boil kettle for 60 min @ 1.33 qts/lb. Leaving the top of the bag draped over the top of the BK and untied stirring within the bag to break up lumps and even the temps.

After the mash I would pull out the bag and squeeze just enough so i wouldn't drip wort all over the floor, and immediately dunk the grain-bag in my 30qt aluminum turkey fryer kettle filled with an appropriate amount of 170 degree sparge water.

I then inserted my long spoon into the bag and pushed it to the bottom of the kettle, and t-bagged it until the color of the sparge water was uniform.

I mostly quit the squeeze because i realized i could get the same performance without scalded hands. (I got over being a tightwad too)
I was able to keep the gravity of the sparge above 1.008, and it only took a 3 minutes, resulting in efficiency (calculated for me by the local LHBS
) at near 90%.

I would highly recommend this method for anyone wanting to start AG with 5g batches. It was cheep, fast, and easy, allowing me to focus on recipe formulation and component difference prior to committing big dollars to the volume sizes I eventually wanted.
 

Beernik

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
4,122
Reaction score
901
Location
Camano Island, WA
I was a no-squeezer. I put my grain bag in a large funnel and sparged through it.

To me, it deserves the same answer as most, "Can I do ... instead of ...". If you can't taste the difference, it doesn't matter. If you can taste the difference, it does matter.
 

Julohan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Messages
962
Reaction score
2
I am just going to make a unintelligent statement. It makes no sense to me what so ever why tannins would be a higher risk when squeezing. When tannins can come from high temperatures and the chemistry of water. Now i have never done a PM. I went from extract to all-grain. There have been a couple times I had maybe a handful worth of grains in the boil kettle and never had any off flavors.
 

hoppymonkey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2009
Messages
1,021
Reaction score
12
Location
north atlanta
when picking up my last batch of grains for a PM a couple days ago, the clerk and I got into talking about how tiring it is to hold the grain bag and let it all drip out and I told him that squeezing it makes it quicker. He was like "no no never do that!" but he didnt know why. Is it a bad thing to do to speed things up a little or are my beers going to taste a whole lot better when I stop squeezing out the wort from the grains?
This why I am glad my LHBS is BMW :rockin:. All those guys are in the brewclub and know thier shiat!
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,288
Reaction score
3,725
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
This why I am glad my LHBS is BMW :rockin:. All those guys are in the brewclub and know thier shiat!
But being in a brewclub doesn't mean they collectively know their "shiat" or just "common wisdom.' I came across an entire brew club that bought turkey fryer burners, but threw out the aluminum kettles, because they still believed that old chestnut that aluminum causes alzheimers. They were pretty pissed off when I showed them the thread on here disproving that. They all spent big bucks on stainless.
 

hoppymonkey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2009
Messages
1,021
Reaction score
12
Location
north atlanta
Ed started as homebrewer before he opened his store. That was my only point. All I have figured from the constant reading is that I don't know shiat, but my beer tastes good to me.

PS. That's some crazyiness on the aluminum.
 

Julohan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Messages
962
Reaction score
2
I would imagine most lhbs owners started as a homebrewer. Just because they start as one doesn't mean they know everything. I could start one up right now, and I would definitely be under qualified to answer most questions.
 

Fat_Maul

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
61
Reaction score
2
I am just going to make a unintelligent statement. It makes no sense to me what so ever why tannins would be a higher risk when squeezing. When tannins can come from high temperatures and the chemistry of water. Now i have never done a PM. I went from extract to all-grain. There have been a couple times I had maybe a handful worth of grains in the boil kettle and never had any off flavors.
I am new to this and based on zero experience but just logic, this was my exact thought. What force is keeping these tannins out of the wort during steeping that would be affected by hand squeezing? I would understand using a press or some machinery since that would likely raise the temperature to very high levels.
 

woozy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
131
I am just going to make a unintelligent statement. It makes no sense to me what so ever why tannins would be a higher risk when squeezing. When tannins can come from high temperatures and the chemistry of water. Now i have never done a PM. I went from extract to all-grain. There have been a couple times I had maybe a handful worth of grains in the boil kettle and never had any off flavors.
I am new to this and based on zero experience but just logic, this was my exact thought. What force is keeping these tannins out of the wort during steeping that would be affected by hand squeezing? I would understand using a press or some machinery since that would likely raise the temperature to very high levels.
The theory is pressure. Under normal pressure tanins are released at 180. So at 160 if squeeze really hard and you were born on Krypton or were exposed to gamma radiation and someone just made you angry you can also release tannins. Thus if you want to squeeze make sure you aren't a super-hero first.
 

LLBeanJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
3,247
Reaction score
891
Location
Northern Colorado
Tannins can't be released unless the wort pH is above ~6.0. Keep the wort within the normal range and you can squeeze until the cows come home and even boil your wort (decoction anyone?) and there will be no issue with tannins. Have your pH get out of whack and it doesn't really matter what your wort temp is, you will have issues with tannins, such as what happens when you over sparge. Anybody who gives a blanket statement about squeezing leading to tannins without bringing pH into the discussion doesn't know what they are talking about and more than likely is just repeating something they heard from somebody else who doesn't know what they are talking about, ad infinitum.
 
Top