Quantcast

sprinke or re-hydrate

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

naa10104

Active Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2020
Messages
44
Reaction score
3
Hello,

Brewing an Amber Ale tomorrow from a kit. Yeast provided is a Safale S-04, dry ale yeast. Directions state, "sprinkle into wort." I have always re-hydrated my yeast on the previous 3 batches I have brewed. Should I re-hydrate this or just follow the package directions ? Thanks for any input, still new at this.

steve
 

BrewnWKopperKat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2017
Messages
1,537
Reaction score
854
Either technique (sprinkle or re-hydrate) is appropriate here (Amber Ale, Fermentis S-04). There isn't a lot of space for instructions on a 11.5 g yeast package. There's more detailed information at Fermentis's web site, including product information sheets for the various strains of dry yeast.

Since you have re-hydrated for your first three batches, I'll suggest that you re-hydrate for this batch as well.
 
OP
N

naa10104

Active Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2020
Messages
44
Reaction score
3
Either technique (sprinkle or re-hydrate) is appropriate here (Amber Ale, Fermentis S-04). There isn't a lot of space for instructions on a 11.5 g yeast package. There's more detailed information at Fermentis's web site, including product information sheets for the various strains of dry yeast.

Since you have re-hydrated for your first three batches, I'll suggest that you re-hydrate for this batch as well.
Thx very much for the info !
 

brewbama

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Messages
3,527
Reaction score
2,033
FWIW I simply measure out my yeast nutrient and yeast in the same ramikin a just toss it all in as the fermenter is filling. The filling kind of mixes it all in and breaks up any clumps.
 

wsmith1625

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
270
Reaction score
128
Location
Manchester, NJ
I would recommend pitching the dry yeast directly into your cooled wort. It just saves you time on an already busy brew day with no negative impact on yeast viability.

I just read this yesterday. Check out the section "What is E2U?".
 

davidabcd

Detroit, Mi.
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
1,665
Reaction score
1,645
I sprinkle the yeast evenly and aerate (though I've read that's not even necessary). I haven't noticed a difference with any method but I also use two packs since I make only high-ABV beer of late.
 

day_trippr

Bastard-covered bastard with bastard filling
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
33,170
Reaction score
14,213
Location
Stow, MA
fwiw, I follow the Fermentis recommended hydration regimen.
I like pitching the clearly active "cream". I imagine it's like a miniature "high krausen" starter.
That can't be bad, right?

Cheers! :)
 

LBussy

A Cunning Linguist
HBT Sponsor HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
2,631
Reaction score
912
Location
Kansas City
There should be a macro that kicks off and send the person asking this question to the last thread on it. :p

But seriously, I think it boils down to you CAN just sprinkle, but it certainly seems that pitching viable truly active yeast after rehydration is A Good Thing™.

Look at it this way: When you were young (when I was young anyway) you could jump out of bed, take a quick p*ss, and go run a few miles. When you're older, it takes a bit to get going. Age for yeast is a relative thing with a lot to do with how it was treated before you got it; before your LHBS got it even. The young kids may get bored stretching out before running, but it's not going to hurt them.

ETA: Just because you can find a yeast supplier telling you that you don't have to rehydrate their yeast because they have magic fairy dust, doesn't mean it's not better. It's in their best interest to make you believe they have the right stuff, compared to those other guys whose yeast has to be rehydrated. A few extra grams of yeast in the packet is cheap insurance.
 

BrewnWKopperKat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2017
Messages
1,537
Reaction score
854
Webinar - Demistify Active Dry Yeast (Fermentis) - Monday Aug 17, 2020

Topic of the webinar
We will discover how our active dry yeasts (ADY) are produced, their quality specifications, and how the use of these products facilitate the operation in breweries. We will also discover the "E2UTM" concept, and present shelf-life studies. To finalize , we will expose technical and scientific information showing the reproducibility of the fermentations when our ADYs are used, and answer the most classic questions, such as: "Is it better to hydrate with water or with wort? Should I hydrate, or can I inoculate into the fermenter directly? How long does an ADY package last?"
 

BrewnWKopperKat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2017
Messages
1,537
Reaction score
854
Anyone have a scoring rubric that can be used to measure "better"? (or "preference"? see #14 below)
 
Last edited:

Craiginthecorn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
52
Reaction score
25
Fermentis generally recommends rehydration. However, they say that it should be OK to direct pitch unless the wort is above 1.065 SG or a low pH soured wort, in which case rehydration is required strongly encouraged.
  • Do NOT use distilled or RO water.
  • Be sure the water is sterile and dechlorinated.
  • Using sterile wort is fine according to Lallemond. Fermentis mentions only water. If using wort, I believe it should be no more than 1.040 or so.
  • Water should be 10x weight of the yeast.
  • Water at 86-95F.
  • Sprinkle evenly.
  • Do NOT stir initially after sprinkling, as this damages the yeast walls.
  • Allow to hydrate undisturbed for 15 minutes, then gently stir, then wait 5 more minutes.
 

Jtvann

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
344
Fermentis generally recommends rehydration. However, they say that it should be OK to direct pitch unless the wort is above 1.065 SG or a low pH soured wort, in which case rehydration is required strongly encouraged.
  • Do NOT use distilled or RO water.
  • Be sure the water is sterile and dechlorinated.
  • Using sterile wort is fine according to Lallemond. Fermentis mentions only water. If using wort, I believe it should be no more than 1.040 or so.
  • Water should be 10x weight of the yeast.
  • Water at 86-95F.
  • Sprinkle evenly.
  • Do NOT stir initially after sprinkling, as this damages the yeast walls.
  • Allow to hydrate undisturbed for 15 minutes, then gently stir, then wait 5 more minutes.
Had never read on the soured wort part. I just made a kettle sour last week. I did over pitch because of the pH. 12 gallons at 1.056 and used 3 packets. Just sprinkled it in and it was roaring in the morning.
 

moorejl57

Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
17
Reaction score
11
I have always just sprinkled directly, but I buy fresh yeast for each batch. If it has been sitting in the fridge for a year, I would be tempted to make a starter and then taste the starter before pitching. I think it is a bit of a myth that you lose half the cells direct pitching or that it greatly stresses the yeast. The quality of dry yeast now days is amazing.

I started brewing in 1982 and the quality of the dry yeast back then was pretty bad. It always seemed to have some level of bacteria in it and was a real slow starter. I imagine the need to re hydrate comes from those dark times. Having worked in a vet microbiology lab at UCD as a college job, I learned how to prepare sterile medium and do streak plates. I took my yeast of choice back then, red star lager, and steak plated it with health food store ager ager and dme. Got some pure colonies from and it and step cultured up to pitching volume. That was the cleanest beer I ever made back then.
 

eric19312

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
1,526
Location
Long Island
I used to rehydrate but after reading the recent fermentis articles including the one linked above stopped bothering. Data doesn't show it providing any advantages and it adds work and risk. I have not seen my homebrew beer suffer for the change.

I speculate the rehydration instructions on the data sheets are directed at commercial breweries that dose all of their tanks using liquid yeast out of yeast brinks. Its to make the dry yeast fit into the brewery's standard workflow.

This thread is bound to pretty soon pick up the old argument about losing half the yeast population with direct pitch into wort vs rehydration into water. That will be countered with yah but maybe it was the weak yeast cells that died and the stronger better cells were going to manage the fermentation anyway. After that we can talk about how many yeast cells are really in a packet of dried yeast and whether that matters....
 

brewbama

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Messages
3,527
Reaction score
2,033
Fermentis generally recommends rehydration. However, they say that it should be OK to direct pitch unless the wort is above 1.065 SG or a low pH soured wort, in which case rehydration is required strongly encouraged.
  • Do NOT use distilled or RO water.
  • Be sure the water is sterile and dechlorinated.
  • Using sterile wort is fine according to Lallemond. Fermentis mentions only water. If using wort, I believe it should be no more than 1.040 or so.
  • Water should be 10x weight of the yeast.
  • Water at 86-95F.
  • Sprinkle evenly.
  • Do NOT stir initially after sprinkling, as this damages the yeast walls.
  • Allow to hydrate undisturbed for 15 minutes, then gently stir, then wait 5 more minutes.
^^^^ this is why I don’t rehydrate. Doing is right is a royal PITA.

just toss it in cooled wort as you’re filling the fermenter. Basta.
 

BrewnWKopperKat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2017
Messages
1,537
Reaction score
854
While I'm waiting for that scoring rubric (#12 above) ...

I think it is a bit of a myth that you lose half the cells direct pitching or that it greatly stresses the yeast.
There appears to be plausible source for that statement. The book Yeast (p 124, eBook version; published in Nov 2013) states: "Failure to rehydrate dry yeast properly will result in the death of approximately half the cells". Move forward a couple of years and What?! Dry Yeast Rehydrate vs Non-Hydrate Lab Results in Wort (Jan 2017) comes to a different conclusion.
 

brewbama

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Messages
3,527
Reaction score
2,033

day_trippr

Bastard-covered bastard with bastard filling
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
33,170
Reaction score
14,213
Location
Stow, MA
^agreed^
No idea why some thinks it's a huge complex effort fraught with contamination risk...

Cheers!
 

brewbama

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Messages
3,527
Reaction score
2,033
^agreed^
No idea why some thinks it's a huge complex effort fraught with contamination risk...

Cheers!
For me, the PITA factor comes in when the water cannot be RO or Distilled but must be sterile and dechlorinated. That either means build water or boil and dechlorinate. Much easier to fill a fermenter and pour the yeast in While it’s filling. Zero prep work for the same results.
 

moorejl57

Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
17
Reaction score
11
While I'm waiting for that scoring rubric (#12 above) ...


There appears to be plausible source for that statement. The book Yeast (p 124, eBook version; published in Nov 2013) states: "Failure to rehydrate dry yeast properly will result in the death of approximately half the cells". Move forward a couple of years and What?! Dry Yeast Rehydrate vs Non-Hydrate Lab Results in Wort (Jan 2017) comes to a different conclusion.
Interestingly, the horrible quality of the dry yeast in the 80's, early 90's is what drove the liquid yeast market to thrive with it's lab grade yeast. Then with all of the attention to yeast quality, it seems to have come back around with the emergence of very high quality affordable dry yeast. So now we have so many excellent choices, including the newer Kveik strains. We are in the golden era of home brewing compared to my humble beginnings. BIAB/no chill has been an eye opener for me as well and now I just do 8 liter batches with minimal equipment on the stove. It's actually fun to do all grain now.
 

jschein

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
423
Location
Long Neck LSD
Interestingly, the horrible quality of the dry yeast in the 80's, early 90's is what drove the liquid yeast market to thrive with it's lab grade yeast. Then with all of the attention to yeast quality, it seems to have come back around with the emergence of very high quality affordable dry yeast. So now we have so many excellent choices, including the newer Kveik strains. We are in the golden era of home brewing compared to my humble beginnings. BIAB/no chill has been an eye opener for me as well and now I just do 8 liter batches with minimal equipment on the stove. It's actually fun to do all grain now.
Yeah always was hoping the rehydrated yeast would be ready when the wort was cool, now just throw it in. Progress
 

cmac62

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2017
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
287
Location
Menifee, CA
My third brew was an IRS that ended up around 13%. I used one packet of BRY 97 sprinkled on top. The second day it blew the top off the fermenter (wife was not happy with my new hobby). I have not hydrated dry yeast since then. :mug:
 

Jonakr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
54
Reaction score
21
"If you sprinkle when you tinkle..."

I generally use either S-04 or Nottingham for Ciders and GF beers. If it's fresh, I follow the directions on the pouch. If I'm re-using, I'll add about 1/4 cup from the previous batch.
 

BrewnWKopperKat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2017
Messages
1,537
Reaction score
854
not according to the mfr
Nice overview of dry yeast in 2020. Thank you!

FWIW, my comment in #23 was only an attempt to identify the source of the "50% death rate". The original source may go back even further - but that may not matter as "the myth" appears to be no longer true. Products like dry yeast (and malt extracts) appear to have improved noticeably over the years.
 
OP
N

naa10104

Active Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2020
Messages
44
Reaction score
3
Hello all, thanks for all the replies. Wanted to let you all know what my results were ref. this question. Again making a Gluten free amber ale from a kit. So, 6 lbs. dark Sorghum, 1 lb. dark candi syrup, 1.5 oz two different hops. I addes app. 1/3 a lb. of "homeade dark candi syrup" (table sugar) to boost the OG. OG = 1.060 including temp correction. I sprinkled the Safale S-04 on top of 4 oz.'s of warm water and let it sit for app. 15 minutes. I then stirred it thouroughly and let it sit another 15 mins or so. Then poured it into the Carboy which was already full of Wort. Took Carboy to basement for fermentation where temp is app. 68-69.5 degrees. Noticed slow bubbling app. 3-4 hours later. App. total of 9 hours later vigorous bubbling and thick Krausen. This morning 8/15/20 at app. 0700 constant bubbling and thick Krausen. I should say with 10 minutes left in boil I did add 1/2 teaspoon of yeast nutrient. This is the first fermentation I have done in a Carboy and certainly the best one I have seen yet.
 

Attachments

LBussy

A Cunning Linguist
HBT Sponsor HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
2,631
Reaction score
912
Location
Kansas City
it adds work and risk.
If a homebrewer can't be trusted to do rehydration in a sanitary manner, the rest of the batch is not going to go well. It's also not a lot of work - I mean, come on, sprinkle the yeast onto some water and let it sit?
For me, the PITA factor comes in when the water cannot be RO or Distilled but must be sterile and dechlorinated. That either means build water or boil and dechlorinate.
Or, ya know, plain old bottled water is both sterile and dechlorinated. :)
 

eric19312

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
1,526
Location
Long Island
If a homebrewer can't be trusted to do rehydration in a sanitary manner, the rest of the batch is not going to go well. It's also not a lot of work - I mean, come on, sprinkle the yeast onto some water and let it sit?
It is more work than sprinkling. It is also apparantly time sensitive. Sprinkle evenly, wait 15 min, stir gently, wait 5 min. Not that hard and certainly within hust about any homebrewer's capability but it's a little fussy.

If there was a reason to do it I would. But that's not evident from my experience or from manufacturers data. For those batches I use dry yeast I appreciate the simplicity and convenience. I use dry yeast about 1 batch in 5, rest are harvested from previous batch. That's also pretty low stress.
 

LBussy

A Cunning Linguist
HBT Sponsor HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
2,631
Reaction score
912
Location
Kansas City
What part of Long Island? I grew up in Amityville.

Most of the rehydration steps I've seen tell you not to agitate, but I mean that's pretty simple too - right? I agree a lot of good, modern dry yeasts don't need this. But, it doesn't hurt and can help mitigate any stress/damage caused by sitting for too long in a hot warehouse.

I'm so sure of my rehydration workflow, I pitch my Skeeter Pee without a starter (starting about post #15). If it works there, it will work anywhere. :)
 

kh54s10

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Messages
18,685
Reaction score
5,431
Location
Edgewater
At least one manufacturer had gone away from the recommendation to rehydrate after doing comparisons and finding little to no difference. I don't remember which manufacturer that was.
 
Top