Spotted Cow Extract Clone Help / Challenge...Will Donate $25 to HomeBrewTalk

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amarsolek

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Okay....so I suck. I am a NEWB, and I admit it.

TO all of you who have made the partial mash recipe...I need help. I have only done extract, and I'm not very good at this yet. Does anyone have some thorough instructions for a partial mash batch, or exactly how the cereal portion works?

Thinks like do I do this in a grain bag? Do I strain, exactly how that all works? I really wanna make this recipe work but I'm pretty sure I wasted my first batch.
 

BeerBaronBob

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I brewed this today, only my second AG batch and hit about 74% efficiency so I was pleased. Unfortunately when I read my preboil OG it read 1.034. BeerTools suggested I was going to be at 1.044 so I dumped in the rest of the DME I had for my starter.... about 0.65#. What I forgot was to adjust the hydrometer reading for the high 170F temp. When I measured the sample later at 72F room temperature the reading was 1.045 - 1.046 so I really didn't need the DME. Oh well a little strong Spotted Cow results and a new lesson.

The OG turned out to be 1.064 at 70F, a little high but considering the unnecessary DME addition not too high. My only glitch was the mash out water which took too long to heat up and I ended up with an initial Sacc rest at 154F for about 80-90 minutes or so. Next time I have to start my water heatup as soon as I mash in. My water volumes I seem to have dialed in so the brew went well overall.

I added 0.5# of presoaked preheated Rice Hulls to the mash and did not have any sparge problems with a 10 Gal Igloo mash tun.

I did take the advice to go to a 90 Min boil.

After some reading I decided to ferment at 62F thinking actual fermentation is around 65F since the temp sensor is not in a thermowell.

I will plan on fermenting at 62F for 2-3 weeks and then cold crash for 1 week at 34F, and force carb for a week at 40F to be ready for the Christmas holidays.
 

eanmcnulty

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Clone #2 is ready for drinking.

Color: exact match, but mine is hazy, and the real Cow is clear.
Flavor: as close as can be, but there is something just slightly different.
Mouth: mine had slightly more mouth-feel.

My peeps say I got it. They like it better than Spotted Cow. I say not just yet. I still have to try swapping the Vienna for the Munich. I'm extremely happy with this brew.

Here is what I brewed:
2.5 Gallon Batch

3.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) 55.25 %
1.00 lb Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) 18.42 %
1.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) 18.42 %
0.25 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) 4.60 %
0.18 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) 3.31 %
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker 2.40 % 60 min 17.3 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [6.80 %] 0 min
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 min)
1 Pkgs Kolsch Yeast (Wyeast Labs #2565)
Mash: 154F
Primary 3 weeks 67F (basement temp)
Bottle 3 weeks 67F
 

scottland

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I bottled my Cow clone on Saturday. I'll report back on how close it came.

I think we're pretty damn close to cloning the cow at this point.
 

scottland

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Ok, I gave my cow a try last night. Dead on. I won't bother tweaking the recipe any further. This will definitely be a fairly regular brew at my place. FYI Kolsh is very messy, and mine took a considerable amount of time for the krausen to fall (10 days or so). I'm used to working with the Chico strain, so it's possible i'm just not used to a slower working yeast. It did clear up rather nicely, tastes good after a short period of time. My Recipe was:

5.5gal, Assuming 82% eff.
4lb 4oz 2-Row
1lb 10oz Pilsen
1lb 7oz Flaked Corn
8oz Munich
8oz Flaked Barley
8oz Crystal 10L
0.5oz Northern Brewer (60min)
0.5oz Saaz (15min)
WYeast 2565 - Kolsch
Mashed at 150*, Ferment at 61*
OG: 1.048 FG: 1.011 ABV: 4.8% SRM: 3.8
 

wookiemofo

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Pretty much spot on to my second batch in terms of recipe... mine was a PM.

As you said, I'm done modifying it.

I think it's safe to say this recipe is nailed.
 

amarsolek

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Wookiemofo, would you mind posting a detailed list of ingredients AND instructions? I really would like to make a partial mash of this but am a straight up newb with everything! Help!
 

wookiemofo

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@ Amarsolek

I absolutely can, let me take a look at my beersmith recipe when i get home... if you don't have beersmith buy it... NOW!

Also download this PDF, it will run through an explanation of Partial Mashing.

home.roadrunner.com/~brewbeer/extract/pres.pdf

Here is the basic run down (starts around page 18), i'll give you specifics when I have them.

This is my setup, there are quite a few different ways to do this:
-Heat up water and dump into mash tun to preheat it.
-Measure out strike water (1.25 qts per pound of grain)
-Heat strike water to temp, let's say you want to mash at 155 (beersmith will give you a specific temp.) Heat the water to 173, dump into empty cooler. When water drops to 165 add grain and cooler cover. Place towels on top. Temp will stabilize at 155.
-After 30 minutes open cooler and stir, recover
-Heat your sparge water. Same amount as strike... heat it to 170, never above 175
-After a total of 60 minutes, begin your vorlauf process. Slowly drain 2 cups of wort at a time, it should take a minute. Dump the 2 cups back on top of the grain (i dump onto a small tupperware cooler to avoid tunneling the grains. Continue until the wort is relatively clear. Then drain at the same rate into your boil kettle.
-Once this is done, pour your 170 degree sparge water into the cooler, stir, cover and rest for 10 minutes.
-Repeat the same vorlauf routine.
-Empty into kettle.
-Top off your kettle to reach the maximum amount you can boil (assuming you have a 5 gallon pot)
-Brew like you normally would. Add your extract when you reach boil and follow your hop schedule

I think that's all of it... Ill repost exact recipe details later tonight, where abouts in MN are you?
 

land_shark

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Comparing the clone with the Spotted Cow again. The color is spot on. The aroma is so close I don't know the difference. But the flavor is just off a bit. I really wish I knew how to judge beer and tell what these flavors are. It is frustrating, because I feel like I am guessing at the modifications I need to make this closer to the real thing. I have brewed 28 batches, and I still feel like a noob when I'm tasting...

Sounds like you're really close, I wonder if pasteurizing a bottle would alter the taste in the right direction.

Jason
 

amarsolek

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wookiemofo, I'm down in the Missippi Valley by Winona, MN.

Thanks for the partial grain help guide!

Any luck on that partial mash recipe?
 

eanmcnulty

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Sounds like you're really close, I wonder if pasteurizing a bottle would alter the taste in the right direction.

Jason

That batch is all gone already. Next batch I will swap Munich for the Vienna. Then I think I will know how close I am getting. I was never a big fan of Spotted Cow. I was brewing it for a friend originally. Now it is a challange, and it is growing on me. I'm surprised how tasty it is.
 

wookiemofo

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@amar

Here it is!

3 lbs Extra Light DME
3 lbs Pale Male (6 row) This is variable, not sure the 6 row is needed
1.5 lbs Flaked Maize
.45 lbs Munich 10L
.38 lbs Flaked Barley

.5 oz Northern Brewer 60 min
.35 oz Saaz 30 min
.5 Whirlfloc Tablet 5 min
Kolsch Wyeast 2565

Preheat your mash tun with hot water

Heat up 6.65 qt (1.25 x lbs of grain) strike water to 174, add to cooler. When water reaches 164, dump in grains and stir like hell. Cover cooler and place towels on top to trap in heat. You are shooting for a mash temp of 152

Begin heating your sparge water (same amount as strike) to 175. I am going to start maybe heating mine higher, I am having low efficiency and i think this might help.

After 30 minutes open and stir, recover

After 60 minutes begin your vourlof, when runnings look clear of particles drain into kettle. Then put kettle over heat.

Dump in 175 degree sparge into cooler, stir like hell, cover and rest for 10 minutes.

Repeat vourlof, then drain to kettle.

Begin your boil, at first sign of boil at DME. Once that again gets up to a boil, start your hop schedule.

Once finished, cool your wort, airate and add to carboy. Pitch yeast. Ferment according to package.

I let mine sit in the carboy for 3 weeks, then I cold crashed a few days. Let sit in bottle for 3-4 weeks.

I don't know why i have odd grain measurements (.38 barley), I'd just even that out.

My og was 1.049, final was 1.012. IBU 20.6
 

skelrad

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@amar

Here it is!

3 lbs Extra Light DME
3 lbs Pale Male (6 row) This is variable, not sure the 6 row is needed
1.5 lbs Flaked Maize
.45 lbs Munich 10L
.38 lbs Flaked Barley

.5 oz Northern Brewer 60 min
.35 oz Saaz 30 min
.5 Whirlfloc Tablet 5 min
Kolsch Wyeast 2565

I'm brand new to this hobby, having just completed my first extract batch! I'm loving every minute of it already, but I need help learning how to interpret a recipe. First off, for the grains, do I really need to weigh out ".38 lbs" of a grain, or is that just what Beersmith spits out and you end up using more of a round number? As far as the hop schedule goes - are the minutes listed how long the hop should be in the boil for, or how long after the boil has started they should be added?

Thanks for the help. I'm ready to jump in with a partial mash if you can help me get my steps right. :eek:
 

eanmcnulty

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Welcome. These Spotted Cows are tasty. I try to measure as closely as I can, but I don't stress over it.
The times listed nect to the hops are time in the boil.
So,
Northern Brewer goes into the boil for sixty minutes, then Saaz go in after thirty minutes...
Happy New Year! Good luck.
 

RukusDM

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Anyone have the software that could convert this to Extract?

I put that recipe into Beersmith and the only way to roughly convert is to do a partial mash.

You can download a fully functional demo of Beersmith from their site and try the conversion yourself. You can add items that your local brewshop has to create the recipe.
 

pvtschultz

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I did my first AG brew last night using the BiaB with batch sparge method and the recipe below. My BiL and my BMC drinking friends love drinking Cow so I figured this would be a good way to get started AG. I should probably have tried a SMaSH recipe first but I feel like I did alright and got 5 gal of 1.045 wort which amounts to 68% efficiency according to Beersmith. I pitched a yeast starter on Monday, doubled it on Tuesday, and this morning the air lock was going nuts after just eight hours. I'm fermenting at 65 degrees ambient.

The question that I had was regarding color. My wort appeared to be a bit on the dark side. I followed the recipe very closely but used 3# 2-Row and 1.25# 6-Row; everything else was per the recipe below. I did mash a bit warmer at 154 with 12 qts water and batch sparged using 190 degree water (12 qts) which resulted in just under 170 degrees when I added the grains. I boiled just under 5 gallons (all I could fit in the pot) and had 4 gallons at the end of the boil. I topped off with 1 gallon to get five gallons of 1.045 OG wort.

How does my method sound? The color seemed a bit on the dark side to me but I was looking deep into a bucket so it might be deceiving. SWMBO didn't care for the AG smell in the house (she already doesn't like the hop smell) but the pooch loved the treats that I made from the spent grains. I'm going to be harvesting the yeast from this one and reusing them right away with a "Dunkel" Ale recipe I found and happens to call for the same Kolsch yeast.

Ok, I gave my cow a try last night. Dead on. I won't bother tweaking the recipe any further...

5.5gal, Assuming 82% eff.
4lb 4oz 2-Row
1lb 10oz Pilsen
1lb 7oz Flaked Corn
8oz Munich
8oz Flaked Barley
8oz Crystal 10L
0.5oz Northern Brewer (60min)
0.5oz Saaz (15min)
WYeast 2565 - Kolsch
Mashed at 150*, Ferment at 61*
OG: 1.048 FG: 1.011 ABV: 4.8% SRM: 3.8
 

wookiemofo

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I've always used glass carboys... looking through the carboy of cow it almost picks up an orange hue. But when I did a side by side the color was almost spot on.

Looking into a bucket will differ as well, you aren't getting light penetrating through the sides.
 

pvtschultz

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Okay, that sounds about right then. Looking down you can see the orange towards the sides and then it gets darker in the middle due to depth. Your recipe was the second that I was going to try but this one just seemed to fit me better. I'll let you all know how it turned out in about a month.
 

wookiemofo

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Well I have 2 on this thread... I'm not crediting them as mine.

The second one, the first bottle seemed spot on.. but every bottle since has been flat. So the taste seems off. So I am having a hard time gauging which recipe I prefer. But I know for sure the first one that BK posted that I reposted was a sure hit.

I'll be brewing one of the two in an AG format soon.
 

Boerderij_Kabouter

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I finally got around to brewing the first recipe I posted on Tuesday. This is my buddies beer though so he picked up the ingredients. We are fermenting with Wyeast 2000 (Budvar lager) so we will see how that goes...

I'll post up a side-by-side review in 40 days.
 

pvtschultz

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Well, I pulled a small sample to do a gravity check (refractometer) and came up with 1.015 and 3.9% ABV. Fermenatation is slowing, but I mainly wanted to check color. It is really close to SC and not orange like I was seeing in the bucket. All good for now.
 

pvtschultz

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Okay, I'm down to 1.006 SG now (refractometer w/ NB corrections) but still have a nice krausen going on. I hope that this one doesn't dry out any more (I think). I did sample it though and the wort/beer tastes grainy, you know, that chew on a kernel of corn taste. Has anyone sampled their AG SC wort/beer to check the flavor? I had a few bottles of Spotted Cow last weekend and didn't pick up too much of that grainy flavor, but the beer isn't full of flavor in the first place. I'm just curious what the experience of others has been in making this clone. This is my first AG beer so I'm trying to learn as fast as I can now.
 

wookiemofo

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The two times i've brewed this I've had thin krausen on it until the end... cold crashing will help that.

And I never taste my wort... all it's done is make me paranoid that my beer sucks because it tastes quite off.

And with spotted cow, i've found that the aging makes a huge difference. I had a skunky odd flavor in my first batch until I think the start of week 3. Then it took a dramatic turn around and was quite tasty.
 

Blanket00

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Did anyone get a bunch of foam when they aerated the wort before pitching the yeast? I just brewed this with the cereal mash on Sunday and had foam up to the top of my carboy. It's gone down quite a bit but I had to pitch the yeast in two stages otherwise it just foamed out? Am I'm just being too concerned? It's been fermenting nicely the first 48 hours so I hope it's all good. My wife loves the real thing so it'd be nice to have a clone since we're in MN.
 

pvtschultz

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I did a near-full boil and didn't aerate so I can't help you there. I tried one tonight after just 14 days (one week in primary and then into bottles); the taste was still a bit buttery but what a crisp brew this has turned out to by. I had excellent attenuation and that shows in the finished product. I think that another week or two should turn this into a great brew.
 

BrewNinja1

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Well I finally broke out a bottle of spotted cow and did a side by side comparison. Taste is nearly identical. Color is very close. Mine was cloudy, theirs is clear (even though on the bottle it mentions its hazy...bs). The only real difference is aroma. SC is has a much more floral aroma that was pretty strong. Mine had it, but not nearly as strong as theirs. Other than that, spot on! Here is the recipe I used:

Recipe: Spotted Cow Clone
Style: Cream Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.59 gal
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 5.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 15.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 48.78 %
2.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 19.51 %
1.75 lb Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 17.07 %
0.50 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 4.88 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.88 %
0.50 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4.88 %
0.35 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 10.1 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (30 min) Hops 5.2 IBU
1.10 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Kolsch Yeast (Wyeast Labs #2565) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 10.25 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 12.81 qt of water at 164.6 F 152.0 F
 

pvtschultz

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Well, I didn't RDWHAHB with this one and have finished the first case at 4 weeks. I primaried for a week and then bottle conditioned. The one I am drinking now poured crystal clear, but there is a bit of fruitiness in the nose and up front. The finish is crisp though, but the fruitiness takes away from the SC experience. In hindsight, I pitched at 75 degrees and fermented in my ~65 degree basement. I'm going to brew this one again next week and pitch a lot colder and put the fermenter in a cold corner of my basement to reduce the esters some. I'll also ferment longer, even though this one came down to 1.005 from 1.045 for 5% ABV.

It seems my Wyeast Kolsch has a higher attenuation and has been finishing in about 4 days at the 65 degree ambient. I just used some yeast harvested from this batch in a "Death by Dunkel" which finished in four days as well and gave me my first yeast geyser. I cleaned up the krausen after two days fermentation and top cropped the third day to get over 1" of yeast in a quart mason jar for later use. By the fourth day fermentation had sputtered out for the most part. I'll let you know how the lower fermentation temp turns out.
 

wookiemofo

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Personally, I always though SC was supposed to have a bit of fruitiness to it like a mild farmhouse. But maybe yours had too much?
 

pvtschultz

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Personally, I always though SC was supposed to have a bit of fruitiness to it like a mild farmhouse. But maybe yours had too much?

I had a tap SC the other night and remember it being very clean, almost boring, but good tasting. Mine is overly fruity to me but I have never done a side-by-side comparison between the two. Maybe I'll buy a sixer on the way home for such a comparison. I'm bringing the second case up ice fishing this weekend so we'll see what my BMC drinking family thinks of my brew.

I'm also thinking that at least another week of primary would have gone a long ways towards cleaning up the flavor instead of just bottle conditioning, but I've been wrong before. The second case has been kept at 64-65 degrees for the last three weeks so we'll see how they turn out. Another batch is in order though.
 

BrewNinja1

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I fermented/pitched mine at about 63 and it was missing some fruitiness. SC definately has a little that mine was missing. Looks like a little warmer fermentation should take care of that for me. Thanks for the update on yours pvtschultz.
 

pvtschultz

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I bought a six pack of Cow on the way home for a side-by-side comparison. Doing a side by side physical comparison, my beer is a bit darker than the cow and more clear. The cow holds a much better head than mine which has been typical of my beers. In tasting, the cow has a more floral front, like fruit or sweet wine, and with the same being true for the nose. My beer has a more "corn" nose, not as sweet but not tart, more earthy maybe. Mine has more body/mouthfeel and both finish clean and crisp with mine having a slight copper taste at finish. I think I prefer the cow right now due to the more sweet/floral nose than my more vegetable nose. We'll see how the next batch turns out. I used 75/25 2-row to 6-row with this batch that I'm going to skip next time.

I'm not a taster so I'm shooting from the hip WRT the tastes so I'm probably missing a lot of them. I only had 68% efficiency which may let more of the corn flavor come through. I have a larger boil kettle now so I am going to do a full-volume BiaB next time w/o sparge which should get me higher efficiency. I'm also going to boil harder next time, maybe for longer, in case the corny taste is from DMS. My final gravity was 1.006 from 1.045 giving me 5.1% ABV and 86.1% apparent attenuation. I might mash a bit lower (152 instead of 154) next time to reduce the mouth-feel some. Mostly though I need to reduce the corn nose/front and get more floral. Maybe a flame-out Saaz addition or something.

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 32.50 %
1.70 lb Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 18.42 %
1.63 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 17.66 %
1.40 lb Pale Malt (6 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 15.17 %
0.50 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 5.42 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 5.42 %
0.50 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 5.42 %
0.50 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 14.8 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Kolsch Yeast (Wyeast Labs #2565) Yeast-Ale

Does anyone have any input? Overall I just finished two good beers, one mine and the other a Cow, got a good buzz going, and I'm going to put the kids to bed. In about five weeks I'll have the results of the next try (brewing next Wednesday).

mini-DSC04168.jpg
 

eanmcnulty

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Those both look good to me! I have one bottle of my second cow experiment left. I want to drink it, but I want to save it. We just had above freezing temps, and I brewed a dry stout. I am going to begin brewing three different versions of Cow i the next few weeks. My stocks are so low!
 

scottland

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That looks really close. This is where cloning gets tough. Once your grain bill and hops are close, fine tuning it is the hardest part.

If yours has more mouthfeel, cut out the crystal, dial it back some. Also you might try fermenting it around 58-60 if you were warmer. I found it gave mine a nice flavor. Beers like this are tough to nail 100%, as there are no complex flavors to cover up differences.
 

pvtschultz

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Do you guys think that a flame out addition of either the remaining 1/2 oz of Saaz or maybe a floral hop like Cascade would give this clone the nose that it appears to be missing? I remember the Cow having a very pleasant, sweet, floral aroma that mine was obviously missing.

I think that my biggest mistake was pitching into 75 degree wort, which was in a plastic pail, which took off almost immediately, which means that the fermentation temperature was quite a bit over the 64-65 degrees of my basement. I'm assuming that is where the esters came from that are obvious in my batch as well. I have a cold corner in the basement that I am going to use for the next batch and I'm going to pitch at 60 degrees; that should help clean up the fermentation. Add that to a hop modification/addition and I think that we'll be closer.
 

scottland

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I don't remember the Cow being that hoppy, but 1/2oz wouldn't add too much hop nose. I'd say just give it try. Even if it isn't quite the cow, it will still be a great beer. And ya, get those pitch temps down, Kolsch yeast takes off like a rocket at warmer temps.
 

pvtschultz

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Yeah, I blew the airlock with this yeast. Maybe the yeast esters are masking it, but my beer is missing the sweet, floral nose that I got from last night's comparison. I'm not sure that Saaz is going to have exactly what I am looking for though, that's why I was wondering.
 

mkling

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My final gravity was 1.006 from 1.045 giving me 5.1% ABV and 86.1% apparent attenuation. I might mash a bit lower (152 instead of 154) next time to reduce the mouth-feel some.

I wouldn't mash any lower. Spotted Cow's FG is no lower than 1.006, I suspect. You don't want a more fermentable wort than you got, I think. But as scottland pointed out where the dextrins come from matters, so dropping or cutting back on the Crystal, the Munich, and/or the flaked barley (which adds a lot of to the mouthfeel) may change the mouthfeel without changing the FG much. (Actually, I'd sub them out with either some 2 row or pilsner malt.) You're close, just down to tweaking now.
 

Boerderij_Kabouter

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pvtschultz- have you calibrated that refractometer for fermenting wort? That seems awfully low. I might do a check with a hydro.

The color looks perfect to me. The lighter Cow is probably just because of suspended yeast.

I will hopefully get my first taste of my buddies soon. It have been carbing for a week, so maybe next week we should have a conditioned and carbonated sample.
 

pvtschultz

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pvtschultz- have you calibrated that refractometer for fermenting wort? That seems awfully low. I might do a check with a hydro.

The color looks perfect to me. The lighter Cow is probably just because of suspended yeast.

I will hopefully get my first taste of my buddies soon. It have been carbing for a week, so maybe next week we should have a conditioned and carbonated sample.

I zero my refractometer with distilled water and then use Northern Brewer's calculator for fermentating wort. It is a bit different than the one in Beersmith but pretty close. SWMBO gave me a NB gift certificate for Valentine's Day so maybe I'll get a hydrometer for checking FG when bottling day comes.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/refractometer-calculator
 

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