Split Batch Question about Alpha Beta Amylase...

[Shawn_Brewin]

So i am planning on brewing on my good friends 20Gal HERMS System to make a 10Gal. Batch this week. He usually leaves town once a year for a couple months in the winter so he takes pity on me and lets me brew indoors on his system. ANYWAYS...
I usually will try to change up the (2) 5.5 Gal carboys i get from the brew by adding two different Yeasts, or steeping some different Grains and giving them a short boil and just mix it in the fermenter to see how different my batch would be if i Added/subtracted something.
Well this Year i wanna get crazy. I am Planning on making a Base beer:
18# Maris Otter
2# Carapils

then once mash is complete, transfer to Boil Kettle and give it a good whirlpool to evenly distribute sugars in the wort and transfer off half to a separate pot. Then with Batch #1 Make a Pale Ale and With Batch 2 i wanted to Make a Stout...
So my Stout is gonna have a bunch of Flaked Barley in it that i am gonna need to Mash...
Will the Alpha / Beta Amylase still be there after Remove the wort from the grain? is there a time line for this? would i be better off just scratching the hole plan? i am trying to make a batch in time for a St. Patty's party i am hosting, and i don't want my Stout to be ****ed.
Thanks in advance, any thoughts / comments would be welcomed.

 

[Likefully]

Interesting question. My understanding is that the enzymes are in the grain so they won't be there when you add the flaked oats, however I am not sure you need the enzymes to get the benefit from flaked oats so your plan could work (I think).

However, I personally prefer to let a stout age a bit - normally i would leave a stout in the fermenter for longer than you have till 17/3 and then I also give it 6 weeks before opening.

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

Yeah i Usually age it a lot longer too, i am sure there wont be tonnes of people there that will want it (especially because the Pale is gonna be Dyed green, Cheesy but hey that's me!) but i would rather have a young tasting stout with maybe a bit to sharp of roast edge to it then one with a starchy film left in your mouth from unconverted Barley. i Dont know i might just take 3/4 of the first runnings and top up with water, then batch sparge the grains and add the Flaked Barley then... If i don't mash out i might not loss the Amylase and they can convert the Flaked Barley.

 

[IslandLizard]

Obviously that flaked barley needs to be mashed properly. The enzymes are in the wort, but their activity is quite low after an hour, especially beta. Perform a cereal mash with some pale malt or MO on the side, and add that wort to the wort you saved for the stout.

I prefer steeping roasted and very dark grains separately from the mash and adding the black potion to the boiled wort at the end, when it has cooled to around 180°F. It tastes better, smoother IMO, less boiled coffee character.

Brewing a 5 gallon batch on a 20 gallon system will throw you some interesting curves, so be prepared.

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

Yeah that seems like a better option i guess. just trying to limit the pots! hahaha I was thinking about doing a Steep for the darker grains i have done it before and seemed to work out nicely...
Sorry i should edit that out, it is 20 Gal. Pots for a 10Gallon System. and the Boil will be the only thing i am splitting so it wont be too bad, just need to watch my evaporation rate on the boil Kettle with such a large surface area!

So what do you think, if i am gonna do 2# of Flaked Barley then Do 2# of Pale malt? or do you think i would need a higher ratio of malt to adjunct?

 

[IslandLizard]

OK, a 10 gallon system makes it a bit easier to manage. You could boil a couple gallons of water for 15 minutes and calculate the boil off, or just estimate. You can always add more water if you overshoot your OG.

You may still run into some volume related surprises depending on how the system is built. Such as low liquid levels, bigger deadspaces, HERMS operation, etc.

2# would be fine. As long as your average DP is over 30, it will convert. I'd aim at 40, for all security. DP of MO is probably at least 90, so 180/4 = 45.

But... let me correct myself, it's not a real cereal mash in this case, since you're not boiling, followed by adding it to a main mash for further conversion. So technically you're just doing a small regular mash.

Use at least 2 quarts of water per pound of grain in your flaked barley mash to keep it manageable. To be able to lauter it somewhat easier, implement a combined beta-glucanase/protein rest @113°F for 20 minutes and use some rice hulls. Then move on to your sacc. rest. Before lautering, stir well and a lot, it reduces the gumminess. If you happen to have a (small) BIAB bag, use that here, as it allows you to squeeze the wort out if push comes to shove. Then do a sparge in a bucket with hot water and squeeze again.

Those 2 pounds of flaked goods really complicate things, huh?

Definitely do a mash out on your large batch so you don't end up with thin bodied stout wort while it sits there for an hour and a half.

 

[Likefully]

Obviously that flaked barley needs to be mashed properly.

I stand corrected, thanks.

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

well thank you guys for all the input. I have learned two things here, one you need the grain itself to convert flaked barley and two, it is alot less ****ing around to just do back to back batches. hahaha thanks again