Spicing a Saison

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thisisxxmyIPA

thisisxxmyIPA

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Good evening fellow beer lovers,


So, I had the Saison Du Buff from DFH, Stone, and Victory earlier this summer. Frankly, I thought it was amazing. I intend to make something inspired by it, though I am not trying to clone it. I've got some questions about spicing this thing!

My recipe looks like this:

7.5 lb Pilsner (Bel)
.75 lb Munich
.5 60L
.5 Vienna
1 lb Clear candi sugar
1 oz Cascade (60 mins)
.5 oz Cascade (30)
.5 oz Cascade (15)
1 oz Cascade (Dry hop)
Wyeast 3724

Light Body mash schedule

For spicing, I am thinking a tsp each of parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme at 15 mins, 10 mins, and 5 mins.

What do we think? Will this be pronounced enough?
 
there is no place for cascade hops in a Saison imho. Strisselspalt, styrian goldings, ekg, czech saaz, german hallartaur are the type of hops that should be used.

common spices include; sweet and/or bitter orange peel, coriander, ginger, cumin, grains of paradise, star anise.

you wouldn't call an apple a grapefruit would you?
 
Good call on the rosemary, and thanks for the hops suggestion. However, I am spicing with P,S,R,T because that is what Du Buff was spiced with.
 
I just brewed a saison and it turned out great. I chose to go "old school" however and not spice it. Traditionally Saisons were spiced with phenolic flavors. When fermented at high temperatures, the spices take care of themselves. I did however add VERY little corriander. This helped me out a ton, check it out. They say to use NO spices, but of course its all up to you! Good luck!!

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Saison-The-Jamil-Show-09-10-07
 
It sounds like an interesting experiment. I think boiling the herbs would be a mistake, though, from my cooking experience. Whenever you boil fresh herbs, you end up losing most of the flavor and aroma. That's why usually real Italian pasta recipes, for instance, only say to add fresh herbs when you toss the pasta with the sauce. I would suggest either adding fresh minced herbs straight to the secondary (which could introduce some bugs) or soaking them in vodka for a few days. I think the best solution might be to get some honey and let the herbs sit in there for a few days or weeks. I've had thyme and rosemary-infused honeys before that were delicious, so I think it should work to do an herb blend. You could heat the honey up to 90 degrees or so to help sterilize, or just pitch it straight into the secondary. You'd boost the abv and hopefully be left with those great aroma compounds.
Mac
 
Take that rock candi sugar out. If you're going to use sugar in a saison, just use table sugar. It's not there for flavor, it's for alcohol production and attenuation, so paying $5.50/lb isn't worth it in this case. I also agree somewhat on trying different hops, but not because Cascade isn't traditional. With those late hop additions, you're going to cover up all those delicate herbal flavors. Don't do anything past 30 if you want any flavor/aroma from the herbs.
 
+1 for cane sugar only.... No difference but the price between that and candi.

Also a big no-spice guy for the saison... The yeast should spice it up if you ferment warm enough. And 90F isn't too warm. HBT poster jaysus ferments his in his warm garage in the summer and parks a hot car right next to his bucket. Gotta be 85-90F in there, and his have always been fantastic.
 
So, love it or hate it, I know I'm rolling with these herbs on this saison... Should they be fresh and added to secondary possibly infused in a honey as macmclean has suggested or dried herbs added near the very end of the boil??
 
I'm a strict traditionalist when it comes to letting the yeast spice my saison.

I'm also a hypocrite because a traditional saison is a session beer and mine is around 9% abv. :D

If I were going to use the herbs, I think I'd use a small amount of dried herbs late in the boil, then taste it in secondary and adjust with fresh herbs then.
 
I agree with all the traditionalists. The only addition I added to mine was a pinch of corriander b/c I didnt trust the yeast. And I dryhopped with chamomille for aroma. Brewing it again soon and will do away with the corriander but keeping the chamomile b/c it gives it a great smell. My entire house smelled amazing when I took it out of the secondary.......

Good luck!
 
ChshreCat said:
I'm a strict traditionalist when it comes to letting the yeast spice my saison.

I'm also a hypocrite because a traditional saison is a session beer and mine is around 9% abv. :D

If I were going to use the herbs, I think I'd use a small amount of dried herbs late in the boil, then taste it in secondary and adjust with fresh herbs then.
Click to expand...


Hahaha! Oh that's a good call. I think I will do a bit of dried and then follow up with fresh in the secondary if needed.
 
lostboysbrew said:
I just brewed a saison and it turned out great. I chose to go "old school" however and not spice it. Traditionally Saisons were spiced with phenolic flavors. When fermented at high temperatures, the spices take care of themselves. I did however add VERY little corriander. This helped me out a ton, check it out. They say to use NO spices, but of course its all up to you! Good luck!!

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Saison-The-Jamil-Show-09-10-07
Click to expand...

I agree. With a Saison, the beer is a blank slate for the yeast. If you insist on the herbs, I'd use them as a dry hop.
 
DubbelDach said:
+1 for cane sugar only.... No difference but the price between that and candi.

Also a big no-spice guy for the saison... The yeast should spice it up if you ferment warm enough. And 90F isn't too warm. HBT poster jaysus ferments his in his warm garage in the summer and parks a hot car right next to his bucket. Gotta be 85-90F in there, and his have always been fantastic.
Click to expand...

+1 Got some helpful hints from a very respected microbrewer from the area and he indicated 90-05 F for saison. I did not get that high when I fermented, and although the beer is very tasty, it's not like it could have been. I'd do better next time.
 
Hmmm, my hop profile has kind of grown, so perhaps I will drop the spices this time around and ferment at high temps. I just went into my local craft beer store and the owner gave me a box of Williamette whole leaf hops still on the vine. I know they're not traditional, blah blah blah, but their profile will work nicely with the noble hops I have set up for this one now. I'm going to use them to finish with five mins left. Also thinking of doing some FWH. IBUs estimated at 33.
 
Homercidal said:
+1 Got some helpful hints from a very respected microbrewer from the area and he indicated 90-05 F for saison. I did not get that high when I fermented, and although the beer is very tasty, it's not like it could have been. I'd do better next time.
Click to expand...

That is pretty warm even for a Saison. I think 80-85 is plenty to get the fruity notes out of the right yeast.
 
I've used Willamette in a Saison, they work fine. Herbs at flameout is my opinion.
 
thisisxxmyIPA said:
Yeah, they fit in logically with the other hops I'm using. I think this time I'll do a straight saison, next time I'm adding herbs at flame out.
Click to expand...

Unless you taste this one without herbs and exclaim "Ye Gods!! How could I have DREAMED of adding anything to this masterpiece of brewing genius I have created!" ;)
 
I put grapefruit peel, coriander and ginger in my last saison, ended up tasty.
 
I would up the amount of parsley. From a chef stand point parsley is the least assertive of those spices, and as the other posters wrote, definitely dial down the rosemary.

Most definitely kill the Cascade. I just made my peach Saison with Willamette. You really want spicy/noble flavors... not citrus. I've also done one with late addition Brewer's Gold that turned out really well.

And if it's still available get the Wyeast 3711. It rocks. Leaves a very silky mouthfeel, high attenuation and quick to ferment.
 
ericd said:
I put grapefruit peel, coriander and ginger in my last saison, ended up tasty.
Click to expand...

You dont even need that stuff if you ferment at a higher temperature and use saison yeast...........its more fun that way, at least i think so....:drunk:
 
Agreed. Mine, fermented warm with 3711, had TONS of citrus flavor along with peppery, spicy and other notes.

I really think that a lot of folks who spice their saisons are tasting more of the yeast character and attributing it to the spices than the spices themselves.
 
Yeah, my mistake. It was WPL566. Anyway, it attenuated down to 1.010 with no sugar adjuncts. I do see that White Labs recommends 80-90, and says it requires a 'leap of faith' for those of us that try to ferment at lower temps.
I left my Saison in the primary for 4 weeks, like any other batch. I'd like to have ten cases of this stuff.
 

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