Speidel Braumeister (brewmaster)

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Your able to get 84% eff. with no sparge? Damn...I might be getting one sooner than later.
One last question. If you were to do an IPA, how do you personally make up the OG gravity difference? Just some DME in boiled water? Reviewing my past 12 recipes, I've only had 2 beers break the .065 mark and they were both IPA's. Also, how much grain are you able to get in the mash tube? 13lbs?
 
the most i have fit in to my 20L so far was 7.1 kg, it was very full but the recirculation went fine, and i got 21 liters of 1.069 wort into the fermenter with a 7 liter sparge (lautering was very slow) and 60 min boil. you don't need dme to get to 1.065, there are many people in this thread who hit these numbers easily
 
I tried 5.9kgs in the 20L last weekend. There was so much malt in ther i actually had to push the SS filters down, rather than the usual drop. That's about my limit I'd think. The pump sounded like it was under great labour until most of the starches had converted. So for those who are looking to push the boundaries of the malt pipe, I'd suggest keep it <6kg.
 
i'm sure noone is interested but i just thought i would update on my first brew, tasted it last night and holy moly, it is the best beer I have made bar none. many years brewing and this just nailed it. not sure if it was the magnificent german preciison on temps, the more complex mash schedule i was able (or at least bothered to do as it was so easy) to do with the system, the recipe or just plain dumb luck. but wow, what a beer! just happens to be my lucky day, with my brew buddy away OS for three months, I am now the sole beneficiary of a keg and a half of the best beer we have made. made all sorts of promises to friends and family about sharing the brew...as far as they know this was a total failure so sadly i have nothing to share...:)
 
Umhhh how are you calculating your efficiency whit that OG and grain it sounds like you are actually getting 60 % efficiency... 3 gallons seem a lot to leave behind too

I just plug in all my values into Beersmith and it calculates it for me. Even if I tipped the unit, leaving behind only .5-1 gallon I'm no where near the 80% efficiency people are reporting (I'd be at around 60% efficiency like you said). I'd definitely like to be able to make 10 gallon batches in the 1.06xxx range. Any suggestions?
 
I just plug in all my values into Beersmith and it calculates it for me. Even if I tipped the unit, leaving behind only .5-1 gallon I'm no where near the 80% efficiency people are reporting (I'd be at around 60% efficiency like you said). I'd definitely like to be able to make 10 gallon batches in the 1.06xxx range. Any suggestions?

Beersmith's brew house efficiency is different than the mash efficiency which most people are referring to:

http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2008/10/26/brewhouse-efficiency-for-all-grain-beer-brewing/
and
http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/06/27/brew-house-efficiency-defined/

In short brew house efficiency accounts for other losses in your system such as trub, etc., these have nothing to do with mash efficiency. Using the numbers you previously sited the manual calculation is something like this:

Without a specific grain bill, I'm going to assume 100% Pale 2 row with an extract potential of 1.035.

35 * 22.5(lbs) / 13.5(gal) = 58 or 1.058 max potential gravity

So for your first batch you have:

41 / 58 = .70 or 70% efficiency

Your second batch is:

46 / (35 * 24.5 / 13.5) = .72 or 72% efficiency

Others should feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

Robert
 
Soviet said:
I just plug in all my values into Beersmith and it calculates it for me. Even if I tipped the unit, leaving behind only .5-1 gallon I'm no where near the 80% efficiency people are reporting (I'd be at around 60% efficiency like you said). I'd definitely like to be able to make 10 gallon batches in the 1.06xxx range. Any suggestions?

You mentioned earlier that your mash pH was 5.8 that sounds high too. It will be ideal to keep it between 5.2 and 5.4. Use some acid malt or spring water or treat your water with salts or try the star san pH Buffer for no headache. There is so many things that can hurt your efficiency that I'll recomend to change one thing per brew so you know for sure how those changes are working.
 
You mentioned earlier that your mash pH was 5.8 that sounds high too. It will be ideal to keep it between 5.2 and 5.4. Use some acid malt or spring water or treat your water with salts or try the star san pH Buffer for no headache. There is so many things that can hurt your efficiency that I'll recomend to change one thing per brew so you know for sure how those changes are working.

My next brew day I'm going to do a smaller grain bill (say 10kg of grain) and see how the efficiency is affected. I suspect (from reading another thread) the higher poundage recipes I've done the past two times are causing efficiency to be much lower than otherwise expected due to compacting inside the malt pipe (I don't stir the malt after the initial dough-in). I also suspect that my water is has a ph buffering effect due to high mineral content or something. I could also be the crush coarseness. These all might be factors that add up.
 
Soviet said:
My next brew day I'm going to do a smaller grain bill (say 10kg of grain) and see how the efficiency is affected. I suspect (from reading another thread) the higher poundage recipes I've done the past two times are causing efficiency to be much lower than otherwise expected due to compacting inside the malt pipe (I don't stir the malt after the initial dough-in). I also suspect that my water is has a ph buffering effect due to high mineral content or something. I could also be the crush coarseness. These all might be factors that add up.

Stiring the grain in the malt pipe when pump rest gain me around 5% you should try that
 
Now why couldn't I just put the grain for a 5 gallon batch into the tube of the 50L? Wouldn't that allow you to do full boils? Like a starting volume of 7 gallons boiled down to 5-6 gallons.

This thread is entirely too long to read the whole way through. Has anyone used the 50L version to brew 5 gallon batches? is it possible? I dont brew 10 gallon batches yet, but might want to some day. I'd hate to spend $2000 now and never be able to brew bigger batches.

It comes down to volume, or a lack of volume. You need enough liquid to keep the heating elements covered while simultaneously pulling liquid down through the plumbing and pushing it up through the grain bed and over the top of the malt pipe. If you don't have enough liquid, you risk exposing the heating elements, which can burn them out and you lose control of heating the mash liquid. The shorted malt pipe requires less volume to pump through the grain bed while keeping your elements covered. And it only costs $98, which is 3.4% of the cost of the 50L system.

As a side note, I understand that, at 145 pages, this is a long forum to read. At four minutes per page to read, it works out to be roughly nine hours of reading time. But let's look at a simplified evaluation of the value of the information within the thread:

Assumptions:

  • Buying a 50L SBM @ $3700 (including accessories, shipping & customs)
  • If you buy the SBM and hate it and return it or resell it, let's say you lose $700 that would be the Bad Outcome Value (BOV)
  • If you love the SBM, let's say you brew an extra 7 times a year, and let's put a value of $50 on each brew, and let's say we'll brew for the next 10 years. That equals a value of $3500 or the Good Outcome Value (GOV)
  • If you saw a SBM online without a lot of supporting documentation, let's say there is a 40% chance you'd buy one and be happy or a 60% chance of being unhappy (CBU)
  • If after you read the full forum, let's say your chance of buying one increases to 90% or a 10% change of being unhappy (CBU)
  • Expected Opportunity Loss (EOL) = Bad or Good Outcome Value * Chance of Being Unhappy

Desire to buy SBM before reading forum:
Buy SMB: EOL=BOV*CBU or $700*60%=$420
Don't Buy:EOL=GOV*CBU or $3500*40%=$1,400

Desire the buy SBM after reading forum:
Buy SMB: EOL=BOV*CBU or $700*10%=$70
Don't Buy:EOL=GOV*CBU or $3500*90%=$3,150

The difference between the Expected Opportunity Loss is a representation of the value of the information contained within the thread. Essentially if you buy a SBM without reading the forum you are "paying" $420 for a 40% chance of being happy with your purchase. If you buy a SBM after reading the forum you are "paying" $70 for a 90% chance at being happy with your purchase. That's a difference of $350 or roughly $37 per hour of reading.

To make a long point short, if you are finding and reading this thread, you probably have more that a passing interest in the SBM. Make the investment to educate yourself and figure out if it is right for you. There is obviously a wealth of information here.

Don't ask the same question that has been answered many times over, you just waste time and thereby limit the available time for forum members to add to the overall knowledge base.
 
It comes down to volume, or a lack of volume. You need enough liquid to keep the heating elements covered while simultaneously pulling liquid down through the plumbing and pushing it up through the grain bed and over the top of the malt pipe. If you don't have enough liquid, you risk exposing the heating elements, which can burn them out and you lose control of heating the mash liquid. The shorted malt pipe requires less volume to pump through the grain bed while keeping your elements covered. And it only costs $98, which is 3.4% of the cost of the 50L system.

As a side note, I understand that, at 145 pages, this is a long forum to read. At four minutes per page to read, it works out to be roughly nine hours of reading time. But let's look at a simplified evaluation of the value of the information within the thread:

Assumptions:

  • Buying a 50L SBM @ $3700 (including accessories, shipping & customs)
  • If you buy the SBM and hate it and return it or resell it, let's say you lose $700 that would be the Bad Outcome Value (BOV)
  • If you love the SBM, let's say you brew an extra 7 times a year, and let's put a value of $50 on each brew, and let's say we'll brew for the next 10 years. That equals a value of $3500 or the Good Outcome Value (GOV)
  • If you saw a SBM online without a lot of supporting documentation, let's say there is a 40% chance you'd buy one and be happy or a 60% chance of being unhappy (CBU)
  • If after you read the full forum, let's say your chance of buying one increases to 90% or a 10% change of being unhappy (CBU)
  • Expected Opportunity Loss (EOL) = Bad or Good Outcome Value * Chance of Being Unhappy

Desire to buy SBM before reading forum:
Buy SMB: EOL=BOV*CBU or $700*60%=$420
Don't Buy:EOL=GOV*CBU or $3500*40%=$1,400

Desire the buy SBM after reading forum:
Buy SMB: EOL=BOV*CBU or $700*10%=$70
Don't Buy:EOL=GOV*CBU or $3500*90%=$3,150

The difference between the Expected Opportunity Loss is a representation of the value of the information contained within the thread. Essentially if you buy a SBM without reading the forum you are "paying" $420 for a 40% chance of being happy with your purchase. If you buy a SBM after reading the forum you are "paying" $70 for a 90% chance at being happy with your purchase. That's a difference of $350 or roughly $37 per hour of reading.

To make a long point short, if you are finding and reading this thread, you probably have more that a passing interest in the SBM. Make the investment to educate yourself and figure out if it is right for you. There is an obviously wealth of information here.

Don't ask the same question that has been answered many times over, you just waste time and thereby limit the available time for forum members to add to the overall knowledge base.

I think this is how my girlfriends mind works when she is trying to figure out what shirt/shoes to wear.
 
Beersmith's brew house efficiency is different than the mash efficiency which most people are referring to:

http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2008/10/26/brewhouse-efficiency-for-all-grain-beer-brewing/
and
http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/06/27/brew-house-efficiency-defined/

In short brew house efficiency accounts for other losses in your system such as trub, etc., these have nothing to do with mash efficiency. Using the numbers you previously sited the manual calculation is something like this:

Without a specific grain bill, I'm going to assume 100% Pale 2 row with an extract potential of 1.035.

35 * 22.5(lbs) / 13.5(gal) = 58 or 1.058 max potential gravity

So for your first batch you have:

41 / 58 = .70 or 70% efficiency

Your second batch is:

46 / (35 * 24.5 / 13.5) = .72 or 72% efficiency

Others should feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

Robert


Good point, Robert! I suspect this is a factor (I'm definitely calculating brew-house efficiency). What about you guys? Are these >80% efficiencies you're reporting brewhouse efficiency or mash efficiencies?
 
rnarzisi said:
It comes down to volume, or a lack of volume. You need enough liquid to keep the heating elements covered while simultaneously pulling liquid down through the plumbing and pushing it up through the grain bed and over the top of the malt pipe. If you don't have enough liquid, you risk exposing the heating elements, which can burn them out and you lose control of heating the mash liquid. The shorted malt pipe requires less volume to pump through the grain bed while keeping your elements covered. And it only costs $98, which is 3.4% of the cost of the 50L system.

As a side note, I understand that, at 145 pages, this is a long forum to read. At four minutes per page to read, it works out to be roughly nine hours of reading time. But let's look at a simplified evaluation of the value of the information within the thread:

Assumptions:


[*]Buying a 50L SBM @ $3700 (including accessories, shipping & customs)
[*]If you buy the SBM and hate it and return it or resell it, let's say you lose $700 that would be the Bad Outcome Value (BOV)
[*]If you love the SBM, let's say you brew an extra 7 times a year, and let's put a value of $50 on each brew, and let's say we'll brew for the next 10 years. That equals a value of $3500 or the Good Outcome Value (GOV)
[*]If you saw a SBM online without a lot of supporting documentation, let's say there is a 40% chance you'd buy one and be happy or a 60% chance of being unhappy (CBU)
[*]If after you read the full forum, let's say your chance of buying one increases to 90% or a 10% change of being unhappy (CBU)
[*]Expected Opportunity Loss (EOL) = Bad or Good Outcome Value * Chance of Being Unhappy


Desire to buy SBM before reading forum:
Buy SMB: EOL=BOV*CBU or $700*60%=$420
Don't Buy:EOL=GOV*CBU or $3500*40%=$1,400

Desire the buy SBM after reading forum:
Buy SMB: EOL=BOV*CBU or $700*10%=$70
Don't Buy:EOL=GOV*CBU or $3500*90%=$3,150

The difference between the Expected Opportunity Loss is a representation of the value of the information contained within the thread. Essentially if you buy a SBM without reading the forum you are "paying" $420 for a 40% chance of being happy with your purchase. If you buy a SBM after reading the forum you are "paying" $70 for a 90% chance at being happy with your purchase. That's a difference of $350 or roughly $37 per hour of reading.

To make a long point short, if you are finding and reading this thread, you probably have more that a passing interest in the SBM. Make the investment to educate yourself and figure out if it is right for you. There is obviously a wealth of information here.

Don't ask the same question that has been answered many times over, you just waste time and thereby limit the available time for forum members to add to the overall knowledge base.

Is this even math? Lol.

Honestly, I read 1/3 of it before skipping to end. Over the course of this past week, I've read it all. I will be ordering the 20L in the next few days.
Thanks for the very precise answer though!
 
I use beersmith too: last brew (a porter) was 85% mash efficiency and 80% brewhouse efficiency if I remember well (I´m away from my computer). I remember using 12 pounds of grain (for the short malt pipe in the 50L BM) and ending up with 22 liters of 1.060 wort in the fermenter. Efficiency is just a number... if you want to do beers of 1.06xx yes you can even more than that can be achivied ...just look trough your process... The BM is not a bread machine and every batch depends on the brewer´s skill/patience/work so working on your proccess and get to know your equipment it´s the only way of getting in rigth... just my 2 cents.
 
i have a 50l, we did a smaller brew but to ensure sufficient water was in to keep the maltpipe and pumps full we did a 34l brew, which seemed to be about the minimum we could get away with. did a 90 minute boil and worked out to a final volume of 29.5 litres

Are you saying that you used the large malt-pipe with 34L of water?

I've been thinking about doing the same thing. I made an IPA yesterday and I double crushed the grain, the pumps really struggled with the 13 pounds of grain. I had some mini-jets of try and shot out of the grain bed. I had to stop and stir the grain twice during the mash and I didn't get very clear wort. I was thinking that if I added some rice hulls, it might help out, but doing that would make it pretty tight in the short malt pipe.

I was thinking about doing a 5 gallon batch but using my large malt pipe, it would allow me to add all the water at once and have a bit more grain room.
 
Hi Brewers, I have a microbrewery in Switzerland/Europe and I am brewing with a Speidel Braumeister 200 l. When you are using only 2 of the 3 perforated metal sheets you can use more malt (easily up to 50 kg), wheareas you get more than 300 l of wort per batch instead of 200 l. The new BM 200 are now only deliviered with 2 instead of the sheets. Speidel realized this.

Check out the German homebrewtalk ans use google translate:

http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBoard&file=viewthread&fid=12&tid=13205&page=3&orderdate=ASC

Greetings from Switzerland, Daniel www.danibier.ch
 
Are you saying that you used the large malt-pipe with 34L of water?

I've been thinking about doing the same thing. I made an IPA yesterday and I double crushed the grain, the pumps really struggled with the 13 pounds of grain. I had some mini-jets of try and shot out of the grain bed. I had to stop and stir the grain twice during the mash and I didn't get very clear wort. I was thinking that if I added some rice hulls, it might help out, but doing that would make it pretty tight in the short malt pipe.

I was thinking about doing a 5 gallon batch but using my large malt pipe, it would allow me to add all the water at once and have a bit more grain room.

Yep, we were just doing our first run on the Braumeister and wanted to risk a smaller loss in case we stuffed up so went the smaller brew, with the standard 50L malt pipe. worked fine, we were just hydrating the malt at that stage so i just gradually added water with the pumps going until we reached a point where there was good water coverage outside the malt pipe, then commenced the mash.
the efficiency was way better than our expectations and the brew has worked out beautifully!
we did a 90 minute boil, as we were using a pilsener malt for a pale ale, and that gave us a final volume of approx 29.5l, from a starting volume of approx 34l. the unusual final volume worked out well as it allowed us to do the main batch of 23l in one fermenter with dry hopping, with a smaller side batch without the hops to use as a comparison.
 
we only went for a OG of 1.052(or 1.053 depending upon whether you take the reading from refractometer or the hydro) but i can see no reason why you couldn't have had a bigger grain bill on it, certainly not due to capacity constraints. not sure if anyone has any idea on why this would not work as a way of hitting higher gravs?
 
i have been trying to stuff the malt pipe as full as possible (20L) with very good results but on my last brew i overdid it, didn't get any obvious channeling or squirting, but i think recirculation got too labored and the wort at the top of the pipe was not up to correct temp. on programmed sacc rest of 68 i was measuring 62 at the top. i used as large a volume of water as possible, so the level in the pot was up near the top of the malt pipe, and that surrounding water was always exactly at the programmed temp. i missed my gravity (1.057 / 1.066) for the first time and fear that the beer might come out thin. not the smartest thing i've ever done but i figured i'd see how far i could push it. i'm sure it depends on the grain and the crush but this was 7.2 kg mostly 2 row, coarse crush, barely fit in the malt pipe, just fyi
 
Hi Brewers, I have a microbrewery in Switzerland/Europe and I am brewing with a Speidel Braumeister 200 l. When you are using only 2 of the 3 perforated metal sheets you can use more malt (easily up to 50 kg), wheareas you get more than 300 l of wort per batch instead of 200 l. The new BM 200 are now only deliviered with 2 instead of the sheets. Speidel realized this.

Check out the German homebrewtalk ans use google translate:

http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBoard&file=viewthread&fid=12&tid=13205&page=3&orderdate=ASC

Greetings from Switzerland, Daniel www.danibier.ch

That is so cool. My dream is to own one of these and run a microbrewery with it so it makes me very happy to see it can produce 300l twice a day.

If i might pick your brain a bit. What glycol chiller do you use on it and what size/kind of fermenters, fermentation temp control, do you carb in the keg or use bright tanks? I know, lots of questions! :)
 
That is so cool. My dream is to own one of these and run a microbrewery with it so it makes me very happy to see it can produce 300l twice a day.

If i might pick your brain a bit. What glycol chiller do you use on it and what size/kind of fermenters, fermentation temp control, do you carb in the keg or use bright tanks? I know, lots of questions! :)

just answered my own questions by looking at your website, looks like you are using spiedel for your fermenters too. Are those corny kegs you are using for carbing?

You bottle from those as well? Seems like you would need to have a fair amount of those to keep up with 3bbl brew days
 
That is so cool. My dream is to own one of these and run a microbrewery with it so it makes me very happy to see it can produce 300l twice a day.

--> Having a microbrewery really makes fun ! Besides my regular job I work 1 day per week for the brewery. Sometimes I brew 2 batches with the BM 200 per day. This takes from 7:00 until 23:00 (ah, yes, American way: 7:00 am until 11:00 pm). I sell (almost only) corny kegs. But I bottle also directly from the tank.

What glycol chiller do you use on it and what size/kind of fermenters, fermentation temp control, do you carb in the keg or use bright tanks?

--> The fermenters have a bit more than 300 l. The temp. was regulated manually so far (on/off) with a thermometer. Tomorrow I will install an automatic cooling system (there are several companies selling such stuff like http://www.kreyer.com/cgi-bin/cms ). I do it the "American way" and carb the kegs (9 h @ 5 bar) - I have no pressure in the tanks. The chiller is from an Austrian company (www.grapos.at) and has a power of 1 kW. I use glycol.
I do use tanks from Italy. I isolated them by myself. I have 4 of them. Speidel does not produce cylindroconical stuff. If you are interested in a inexpensive brewery I can really recommend the company http://www.zhongdeshebei.com/ - I visited several breweries from them in Europe. Everything works fine. And the support is good, even though the stuff comes from China. It's not the super high German quality - but, the stuff works fine.
 
That is so cool. My dream is to own one of these and run a microbrewery with it so it makes me very happy to see it can produce 300l twice a day.

--> Having a microbrewery really makes fun ! Besides my regular job I work 1 day per week for the brewery. Sometimes I brew 2 batches with the BM 200 per day. This takes from 7:00 until 23:00 (ah, yes, American way: 7:00 am until 11:00 pm). I sell (almost only) corny kegs. But I bottle also directly from the tank.

What glycol chiller do you use on it and what size/kind of fermenters, fermentation temp control, do you carb in the keg or use bright tanks?

--> The fermenters have a bit more than 300 l. The temp. was regulated manually so far (on/off) with a thermometer. Tomorrow I will install an automatic cooling system (there are several companies selling such stuff like http://www.kreyer.com/cgi-bin/cms ). I do it the "American way" and carb the kegs (9 h @ 5 bar) - I have no pressure in the tanks. The chiller is from an Austrian company (www.grapos.at) and has a power of 1 kW. I use glycol.
I do use tanks from Italy. I isolated them by myself. I have 4 of them. Speidel does not produce cylindroconical stuff. If you are interested in a inexpensive brewery I can really recommend the company http://www.zhongdeshebei.com/ - I visited several breweries from them in Europe. Everything works fine. And the support is good, even though the stuff comes from China. It's not the super high German quality - but, the stuff works fine.


Ive never heard of anyone using 5 bars for 9 hours on beer. What temperature do you have it at when doing that. I would think it would over carb it.

I run mine at 12psi for a week at 38 degrees before i even tap it, maybe i should up it and tap it early at a lower pressure.

I looked up some other electric systems such as brewmation.com and no one can compare to the ease of use/cost/repeatability of the spiedel.

Guess it is just time for me to either take out a loan and go all in or start saving...maybe both.

that first cooling company is exactly what i was looking at, i think it is around 4 grand.

Since you are using cornelius kegs how are you washing them? I was thinking of picking up this: http://morebeer.com/view_product/11869//Keg_Carboy_Washer
 
I want to get the CO2 into the KEGs as quickly as possible - withour rolling or moving the KEGs. Time is money. I know that most brewer use much lower pressure and a much longer time period. I just tested this - it works perfectly. My garage has a temeperature of about 15 °C. In winter time when it's colder, I use 8 h instead of 9 h to avoid too much CO2. Hint: When using this technique the air-volume in the KEG should always be (more or less) constant.
The big advantage of the BM 200 is the size. Some other systems are incredibly huge.

I have a very simple way of washing the KEGs. I have to say I have never had an infection. When I cool down the wort with the BM 200 I get a lot of hot water, which I use for the KEG-washing. I open the KEGs and place them in one line, then I shower them with the hot-steaming water and fill them with some liters and empty them (they are quite clean already then). Then I fill the KEG with some l of hot water with these tools
http://www.brauundrauchshop.ch/100/con_liste.asp?prono=405&ica=77&vSearch=&nCurPage=&sStartPageNext=

and throw one spoon of OxiClean inside, close the KEGs, shake them a few times and let them rest until I fill them usually a week later. Before I fill them I empty the OxiClean-Water and shower the inside with tap water. That's it.

The BM 200 is not bad for the beginning. I also know of microbreweries that are using 2 BM 200 running at the same time. I guess systems from http://www.zhongdeshebei.com/ are a bit more expensive, but easier to handle. The BM 200 is for semi-professionals. ;-)
 
It's interesting to see that there are other people out there with efficiency issues on the braumeister system. I have a 50L and have starting using the short malt pipe for some smaller experimental batches. I'm also using beersmith to calculate my efficiency - mash efficiency - as beersmith does both mash and brewhouse efficiency calculations.

When relying on beersmith, you need to make sure that you plug in the correct yield/potential on your malt bill. My beersmith had Munich malt's potential at 1.037 when in fact it was 1.035 - while this doesn't seem like a huge difference, it actually made up a percentage point or two on the mash efficiency.

I'm using the 5.2 mash stabilizer and a barley crusher (got rid of my corona mill) set at a 1.15mm gap and with 6kg of grain and 31 liters of water I ended up with a 71% efficiency on Saturday. I used the manual setting on the braumeister for the mash, so I mashed in at 66, did 40 min @ 62, 40 min @ 66, 20 min @ 70 and 20 min @ 75. Right now I'm just playing around with it to determine the best mash schedule for the future, what I found is that the iodine starch conversion test does not seem to work with the braumeister (ie. the iodine doesn't turn black even when there is starch still left), after the first 40 min I was up to 10 brix (approx 1.040) and ended with 12.25 brix at the end. I also rotated the malt pipe by a quarter turn after the first 40 minutes - to see if that would help - not sure it did anything.

For my next batch I'll cut down on the overall mash time as it didn't seem to help, and I've already adjusted my roller mill to 0.85mm gap to see how the system will handle that crush. I'm not really sparging right now as with 31 liters and 6kg of grain, I'm left with approx 25 liters of wort pre boil which ends up around 20 liters post 60min boil, and 19 liters into the fermenter (at 1.062). If I sparged I would either have too much wort or have to do a longer boil, though I do understand that not sparging will cut down on my overall efficiency, it doesn't seem to be worth it if I can get my efficiency up to around 75%, this way after the mash I can kick off my boil while the malt pipe drains.

I would have to say that 6kg seems to be the max that the short malt pipe can handle in an all barley grain mash, if you add any kind of oat/wheat flakes that require you cook them first, you'll need to reduce that down to 5kg ish.. flakes absorb a lot of water when you cook them, we tried this on Thursday last week and had to stop the mash and use the larger malt pipe.

Also, I do tip my braumeister to get out the last bit of wort - there is about 11 liters of liquid from the bottom of the braumeister to the opening for the drain, why you would want to leave that behind is beyond me, I'm looking to build a pickup tube for my system, however I can't seem to find any foodgrade silicon that would keep it in place (based on Yambor's pics).

By the way, my first IPA that I brewed on this system came out awesome! 8.3% with 1272 yeast and 7.8% with 1214 yeast (I did a 42 liter batch into two fermenters and pitched two very different yeasts). I added some DME to up the OG, but since this was my first batch that I brewed on the system I didn't quite have the mash schedule figured out (and I still don't, but am getting closer).
 
@becks41:In my experience I used 6.5 kg max using the short malt pipe don´t be afraid to pack it tigth if you stop and stir the mash, also your mash schedule seems a little excesive ussualy an hour will convert all the starches into sugars. I don´t always use the same schedule I´ll change it depending on the recipe/style that I´m brewing. On my last brew I used doug in at 53C for 10 minutes (this also used as a protein rest), then 40 minutes @ 62C, 20 minutes @ 71 C, 5 minutes @ 78 and sparge with 1 liter per kilo of grain with 78 C water. I was optimist so i set my expected brewhouse efficiency @ 78% and hoping to end up with 23 liters of wort in the fermenter with a 1.062 OG, I overshoot it end up whit 23.5 liters in the fermenter (23 liters bottled) and a OG of 1.065 this gave me a measured efficiency of 84% I´m a happy man I was able to get that efficiency two times in a row but I consider that 75% is good actually very good. I´m also using now 5.2 ph stabilizer and the barley crusher I think the gap I use it´s the same that you are using. I don´t know if this helps but my efficiency is 80 and + when I brew darker styles,when I brew blondes I usually end up with a 75% efficiency (with this brews I haven´t use the 5.2). This being said i think my limit it´s (I´m talking here in OG terms and not efficiency) a wort of 1.072 propably tomorrow I´ll try to push the limits of grain and OG if I have the time I´ll try to post recipe and results. Also are you pausing the mash and stiring the grain? if you are not DO IT! I think that and a little sparging will bring your efficiency a few points up.
 
Hey Obliviousbrew, thanks for the tips. I haven't been stirring as it seems like a bit of a pain, but I suppose if it helps increase my efficiency I could do it. I agree that my mash schedule was too long, I was just testing out the system to see if i could squeeze any more sugar from the grain and the answer seemed to be no. I suppose I could try to fit another .5 kg in the short malt pipe, it just seemed so full with the 6kg, but I'll remember that. Let me know how your brew goes tomorrow, I'll be curious to know if you can up your OG at all, 1.072 is a really good limit.

Cheers!
 
obliviousbrew you say you cram the malt pipe full, i recently posted that i had trouble recently with an over ambitious grist bill and although circulation was evident the top of the malt tube wasn't getting up to temp, which resulted in a wort that was more fermentable than it should have been, in addition to lower efficiency than expected (the beer is still good but should have been better). i did not stir at any point since i saw liquid flow. so i'm wondering if you have checked the temp at the top of the malt tube before or after stirring when it's packed to its limit? and compared to the wort outside the malt tube which in my batches is always exactly at the set temp. cheers
 
dinnerstick said:
obliviousbrew you say you cram the malt pipe full, i recently posted that i had trouble recently with an over ambitious grist bill and although circulation was evident the top of the malt tube wasn't getting up to temp, which resulted in a wort that was more fermentable than it should have been, in addition to lower efficiency than expected (the beer is still good but should have been better). i did not stir at any point since i saw liquid flow. so i'm wondering if you have checked the temp at the top of the malt tube before or after stirring when it's packed to its limit? and compared to the wort outside the malt tube which in my batches is always exactly at the set temp. cheers

Do you have the 20l setup or the 50l because the 50l heating element its bigger than the 50. I've checked the temp only once (first brew) and it was ok. I'll check it tomorrow and I'll try to post it
 
I got 92% mash efficiency last time I brewed. OG 1040, 4.25kg grain bill.

- 26L in
- rinsed with 8L ie ~2L/kg (ie 34L in total going in)
- I stopped once to stir the mash, would've done this more often but missed all the pump breaks except one doing something else
-rinsing method: lifted malt pipe, took out top grill and broke the hole made by rod, put grill back on. Poured 2L water slowly on top of grill. Waited a few minutes then lifted the malt pipe on top of upside down lid on top of bucket wort dropping through the lid hole into bucket. Spent 20 mins to pour 6L on top of grill, no stirring the grain, lifting malt pipe slightly to let the wort run freely into bucket. Last drops into bucket were OG 1019, target og was 1041 iirc, hit 1040 instead.

Not much more extra effort but perhaps I saved a few pennies per litre. Main thing is to hit the gravity and brew a beer you love to drink.
 
DeGarre said:
I got 92% mash efficiency last time I brewed. OG 1040, 4.25kg grain bill.

- 26L in
- rinsed with 8L ie ~2L/kg (ie 34L in total going in)
- I stopped once to stir the mash, would've done this more often but missed all the pump breaks except one doing something else
-rinsing method: lifted malt pipe, took out top grill and broke the hole made by rod, put grill back on. Poured 2L water slowly on top of grill. Waited a few minutes then lifted the malt pipe on top of upside down lid on top of bucket wort dropping through the lid hole into bucket. Spent 20 mins to pour 6L on top of grill, no stirring the grain, lifting malt pipe slightly to let the wort run freely into bucket. Last drops into bucket were OG 1019, target og was 1041 iirc, hit 1040 instead.

Not much more extra effort but perhaps I saved a few pennies per litre. Main thing is to hit the gravity and brew a beer you love to drink.

+1 on that efficiency its just a number the important thing its to hit your gravity and make the beer you want
 
Do you have the 20l setup or the 50l because the 50l heating element its bigger than the 50. I've checked the temp only once (first brew) and it was ok. I'll check it tomorrow and I'll try to post it

i have the 20. only 4 brews in so i am still figuring out what strategy fits my brewing style best, and how far i can comfortably push the limits of my little german friend. i guess it makes a bigger difference having 2 pumps as in the 50
immer pumpen!
 
I'm starting my brew day rigth now I had a problem with my barley crusher the O-ring broke so I had to take it apart and repair it. Im 3 hours behind now but I was able to fix it I'll post the results.
 
obliviousbrew you say you cram the malt pipe full, i recently posted that i had trouble recently with an over ambitious grist bill and although circulation was evident the top of the malt tube wasn't getting up to temp, which resulted in a wort that was more fermentable than it should have been, in addition to lower efficiency than expected (the beer is still good but should have been better). i did not stir at any point since i saw liquid flow. so i'm wondering if you have checked the temp at the top of the malt tube before or after stirring when it's packed to its limit? and compared to the wort outside the malt tube which in my batches is always exactly at the set temp. cheers

Just checked the temps the set temp was 62 C on the top of the malt tube was 61.7 and in the bottom 62 C. I´m using the short malt pipe with 6.30 kilos there was room for maybe one more pound but 6.30 kilos seemed enough for me.
 
i have the 20. only 4 brews in so i am still figuring out what strategy fits my brewing style best, and how far i can comfortably push the limits of my little german friend. i guess it makes a bigger difference having 2 pumps as in the 50
immer pumpen!

Not only the two pumps but also a bigger heating element in the BM50L help to maintain the temp and have enough power to recirculate wort.
 
Well just filled my fermeter with 20.5 l of wort (about 5.5 gal) OG 1070 didn´t hit my limit but close enough and I end up with 1 liter more than what i expected. Mash efficiency was around 87% brewhouse efficency was lower due to the absorption of hops (this is a hoppy IPA) 76% measured. I think that maybe I can fit half a kilo more or so in the malt pipe. A little tired now time to clean up!! See ya!!!
 
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